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Thread: OL

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    I'll accept the point with Manning to a certain point, but not sure when Ben and Cam had to suffer behind bad lines. Maybe for a year due to injuries, but for the most part, those organizations have always invested well in their OL with good results.
    For about three years after Faneca left, Big Ben was amongst the most sacked and hitted QB's in the league. Cam's first two of three years his lines were subpar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    Unfortunately every indication is that Lynch is a massive bust, and we signed CK to be placeholder for year three and four? I don't buy that. The braintrust deserves some respect.
    Then why not trade or release him? He was drafted knowing he would take 2-3 years to develop. When has he had a chance to develop? He was thrust into a QB competition from day 1. I'm not saying he's the answer, but who knows. Took Keenum some time to get there.

    In either case, Keenum would only be a placeholder for year 3. Even if we drafted a kid this year, he wouldn't start over Keenum.

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    For about three years after Faneca left, Big Ben was amongst the most sacked and hitted QB's in the league. Cam's first two of three years his lines were subpar.
    You literally picked the 2 biggest QB's in the NFL, who stay in the pocket longer than most because they know they can absorb those hits and still get a pass off. Sometimes sacks are the result of a QB decision...not a crap OL.

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    You literally picked the 2 biggest QB's in the NFL, who stay in the pocket longer than most because they know they can absorb those hits and still get a pass off. Sometimes sacks are the result of a QB decision...not a crap OL.
    That doesn't mean they didn't play behind bad lines, Chaz. I'm making a general point - I can point to other smaller and more mobile QB's, too. Or I can point to regular sized QB's like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Smith, who do well with sliding and moving in the pocket and making calls at the line to mitigate issues. That's sort of the point - in general, these are things that can be done, and QB's can heavily impact how a line plays.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    Then why not trade or release him? He was drafted knowing he would take 2-3 years to develop. When has he had a chance to develop? He was thrust into a QB competition from day 1. I'm not saying he's the answer, but who knows. Took Keenum some time to get there.

    In either case, Keenum would only be a placeholder for year 3. Even if we drafted a kid this year, he wouldn't start over Keenum.
    His trade value is low and he's a five million dollar cap hit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    That doesn't mean they didn't play behind bad lines, Chaz. I'm making a general point - I can point to other smaller and more mobile QB's, too. Or I can point to regular sized QB's like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Smith, who do well with sliding and moving in the pocket and making calls at the line to mitigate issues. That's sort of the point - in general, these are things that can be done, and QB's can heavily impact how a line plays.
    It goes both ways. You need quality QB play AND quality OL play. The #1 QB will not succeed behind the #32 line and the #1 line will not create a world of success for the #32 QB.

    Now that I've reiterated the same point 12 times...I'm checking out of this thread.

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  9. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    It goes both ways. You need quality QB play AND quality OL play. The #1 QB will not succeed behind the #32 line and the #1 line will not create a world of success for the #32 QB.

    Now that I've reiterated the same point 12 times...I'm checking out of this thread.
    I am not opposed to investing in the line. That's never been a point of contention of mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  10. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    The majority of hall of fame QB's are first round picks. Rodgers was a first round pick. Brees was the 32nd pick overall, and would have been a first rounder had a team not been penalized a first round draft pick. Wilson and Brady are overall exceptions. Manning made bad lines look great, and he was a top five pick. Big Ben has played well with bad lines, and he was a first round pick. Cam Newton has had rough lines, and he was the first overall draft pick. Also, the Rams and the Eagles have made investments in QB and the offensive line. It's not a dichotomy - you have to find roster balance and build in depth.
    You've missed the point. Even though Rodgers was a first round pick, it was 20 something. Had people known ahead of time that he was going to be elite, he would have been the first pick in the draft. But part of this is the environment the organization provides that cultivates their growth. But to your point that an elite QB can cover for a bad offensive line: even if that's true, it only means something if you can know ahead of time which QBs will be elite. Is a team seriously supposed to say, "hey Sam Darnold is going to be elite. Lets not worry as much about having a quality offensive line." If your point is simply that it's good to have an elite QB, ok..no one disagrees with that. Ironically, Andrew Luck was one of the most bullet proof QB prospects in decades. He's been injured because he's been playing behind a bad offensive line. Are we to infer that he's not elite because he can't cover for a bad offensive line? Is there a suggestion that his injuries are his fault and it's a flaw that prevents him from being elite?

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    I'd be surprised if Hernandez makes it to the 2nd round.

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  13. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    I'd be surprised if Hernandez makes it to the 2nd round.
    Yes, in my first post I said they might need to trade into the first to get one of them. I've seen Daniels recruited by several teams in the 20s too.

    I thought Dallas might take Hernandez but after cutting Bryant, they have more glaring needs elsewhere. They've been in contact projected first round with DTs, ILBs too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7alpha30 View Post
    The idea is that you always have depth and competition and you can also minimize paying free agents. At some point you'd have to make decisions on who to let go and who to keep but you''d at least have the flexibility if you have quality depth.

    Also by growing your own offensive line, after a few years, you'd have more flexibility in red shirting rookies, if appropriate You'd also have more cohesion from year to year. One of the problems in the NFL is the CBA cuts into the time required to develop good offensive line play. If guys are brought along in house, it should make things better.
    i think it's great in theory, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to draft good OLs with the way the college game is going. . . i'm very much in favor of investing rather heavily there because OL talent is at such a premium, but you can only sink so much draft capital into it. . . it's a balancing act, obviously-- you do want to go heavy there, but it can't be to the point of excluding other important spots that also need quality depth. . .

    all that said, i wouldn't be opposed to going the "trade with buffalo" route, and taking mcglinchey and hernandez/wynn. . . get it solved for a while. . .

  15. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    i think it's great in theory, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to draft good OLs with the way the college game is going. . . i'm very much in favor of investing rather heavily there because OL talent is at such a premium, but you can only sink so much draft capital into it. . . it's a balancing act, obviously-- you do want to go heavy there, but it can't be to the point of excluding other important spots that also need quality depth. . .

    all that said, i wouldn't be opposed to going the "trade with buffalo" route, and taking mcglinchey and hernandez/wynn. . . get it solved for a while. . .
    Its an interesting year. The interior OL seems to be perceived as deeper than at Tackle. You might really see if teams draft talent over need or vice versa. If a team needs an offensive tackle, they may pass on a G or C because they think T is more important, even if the G or C grades out to be better.

    And I think because the quality at T isn't perceived as great, there's been a lot of speculation that there will be a run on tackles in the late first or early second. That's were are a lot of guards and centers are projected to go. Will a run on tackles push the Gs and Cs to getting picked later or will there be a block of time in the late first where it's all offensive linemen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    I'd be surprised if Hernandez makes it to the 2nd round.
    I keep hearing that he's expected to go in the first round.

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    take the guard who plays like this. . .


    Click image for larger version. 

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