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Thread: OL

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    The line means nothing without a franchise QB. Ask Dallas about Dak, or the Raiders about their line when Carr went down, or Cleveland when they had a great line, or the Titans with Mariota underperforming, etc.
    You couldn't be more wrong.

    You'll have to ask them if it's important enough to you to make this point.

    Also, what's a franchise QB? According to a graphic I saw, a successful QB is more likely to come from the 6th round than the 2nd or 3rd round.

  2. #17

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    Really? In those examples those teams have great lines and QB's who aren't playing like franchise QB's.

    The line protects the QB. A great line with no QB is akin to the world's best safe containing an IOU from Bernie Madoff
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    The line means nothing without a franchise QB. Ask Dallas about Dak, or the Raiders about their line when Carr went down, or Cleveland when they had a great line, or the Titans with Mariota underperforming, etc.
    In reality...you cant have both. Not for long anyway. The cost of the Dallas line has equaled a petty defense. When Dak and Elliot need to be paid...someone from that OL will be released. Maybe more. Point is, you can't have a franchise QB, an All-Pro OL and a top 10 defense and fit under the cap. Not unless you catch lightning in a bottle for a year, maybe two.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    In reality...you cant have both. Not for long anyway. The cost of the Dallas line has equaled a petty defense. When Dak and Elliot need to be paid...someone from that OL will be released. Maybe more. Point is, you can't have a franchise QB, an All-Pro OL and a top 10 defense and fit under the cap. Not unless you catch lightning in a bottle for a year, maybe two.
    I agree. I want the QB, who can mitigate the weaknesses of the line.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    I agree. I want the QB, who can mitigate the weaknesses of the line.
    We've tried that before. The expensive defense is the only reason it worked.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    We've tried that before. The expensive defense is the only reason it worked.
    I have seen many QB's play well and mask deficiencies in offensive lines. Manning did that in the second half of his time in Indy, Brady's done it when his line was injured, Rodgers, Wilson, and Brees have done it, too. There is a way to get a good QB and provide at least an equate, albeit not stacked offensive line.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    I have seen many QB's play well and mask deficiencies in offensive lines. Manning did that in the second half of his time in Indy, Brady's done it when his line was injured, Rodgers, Wilson, and Brees have done it, too. There is a way to get a good QB and provide at least an equate, albeit not stacked offensive line.
    Fine...I'll play along. what are you giving up to get Rodgers, Wilson, Brady or Brees to come play in Denver? And PLEASE do not compare Rosen to any of these guys right now. In fact, he might be the last QB prospect you'd want behind a mediocre OL.

    Because until that franchise QB comes along...we have what we have. Period

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    Fine...I'll play along. what are you giving up to get Rodgers, Wilson, Brady or Brees to come play in Denver? And PLEASE do not compare Rosen to any of these guys right now. In fact, he might be the last QB prospect you'd want behind a mediocre OL.

    Because until that franchise QB comes along...we have what we have. Period
    What do you mean play along? The point is that those guys were drafted and developed. No matter what, SB contention is largely predicated upon your QB, and all QB's come into the league largely the same way.

    It's why I want the Broncos to draft a legitimate QB prospect and actually develop him. Not sit him on the bench like they did with Lynch for some pipe dream of TS being competent, and not put him in and yank him. Draft a guy with the ability, and put him in a place to succeed. And a big part of that is defense. Give him a good, not great defense, which is what we have although we will probably decline a bit more this year, and then focus on the line. And teams have done this. But it's hard to do that when you're doing what we're doing, which is a halfbaked process of psuedo playing for now and pseudo rebuilding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    What do you mean play along? The point is that those guys were drafted and developed. No matter what, SB contention is largely predicated upon your QB, and all QB's come into the league largely the same way.

    It's why I want the Broncos to draft a legitimate QB prospect and actually develop him. Not sit him on the bench like they did with Lynch for some pipe dream of TS being competent, and not put him in and yank him. Draft a guy with the ability, and put him in a place to succeed. And a big part of that is defense. Give him a good, not great defense, which is what we have although we will probably decline a bit more this year, and then focus on the line. And teams have done this. But it's hard to do that when you're doing what we're doing, which is a halfbaked process of psuedo playing for now and pseudo rebuilding.
    What if we already have one of those guys?

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    What if we already have one of those guys?
    If we did, then my point would be moot. At that point some of the roster moves that I take issue with are either highly logical or easily justifiable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    What do you mean play along? The point is that those guys were drafted and developed. No matter what, SB contention is largely predicated upon your QB, and all QB's come into the league largely the same way.

    It's why I want the Broncos to draft a legitimate QB prospect and actually develop him. Not sit him on the bench like they did with Lynch for some pipe dream of TS being competent, and not put him in and yank him. Draft a guy with the ability, and put him in a place to succeed. And a big part of that is defense. Give him a good, not great defense, which is what we have although we will probably decline a bit more this year, and then focus on the line. And teams have done this. But it's hard to do that when you're doing what we're doing, which is a halfbaked process of psuedo playing for now and pseudo rebuilding.

    None of the QBs you mentioned were drafted in the top 10. Three of the four weren't drafted in the first round. The Broncos have been doing what you said. If it was so easy, each of the four guys you mentioned would have been a top three pick. Three of the four are also over 30.

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  13. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7alpha30 View Post
    None of the QBs you mentioned were drafted in the top 10. Three of the four weren't drafted in the first round. The Broncos have been doing what you said. If it was so easy, each of the four guys you mentioned would have been a top three pick.
    The majority of hall of fame QB's are first round picks. Rodgers was a first round pick. Brees was the 32nd pick overall, and would have been a first rounder had a team not been penalized a first round draft pick. Wilson and Brady are overall exceptions. Manning made bad lines look great, and he was a top five pick. Big Ben has played well with bad lines, and he was a first round pick. Cam Newton has had rough lines, and he was the first overall draft pick. Also, the Rams and the Eagles have made investments in QB and the offensive line. It's not a dichotomy - you have to find roster balance and build in depth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    If we did, then my point would be moot. At that point some of the roster moves that I take issue with are either highly logical or easily justifiable.
    So, maybe the staff views Lynch as a better option if he has time to truly develop instead of being thrust into a QB competition before he is ready...maybe they think Kelly would have been rated as high or higher than the guys in this draft if he was in the draft this year. Just have to trust the braintrust, I guess.

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  16. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    So, maybe the staff views Lynch as a better option if he has time to truly develop instead of being thrust into a QB competition before he is ready...maybe they think Kelly would have been rated as high or higher than the guys in this draft if he was in the draft this year. Just have to trust the braintrust, I guess.
    Unfortunately every indication is that Lynch is a massive bust, and we signed CK to be placeholder for year three and four? I don't buy that. The braintrust deserves some respect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    The majority of hall of fame QB's are first round picks. Rodgers was a first round pick. Brees was the 32nd pick overall, and would have been a first rounder had a team not been penalized a first round draft pick. Wilson and Brady are overall exceptions. Manning made bad lines look great, and he was a top five pick. Big Ben has played well with bad lines, and he was a first round pick. Cam Newton has had rough lines, and he was the first overall draft pick. Also, the Rams and the Eagles have made investments in QB and the offensive line. It's not a dichotomy - you have to find roster balance and build in depth.
    I'll accept the point with Manning to a certain point, but not sure when Ben and Cam had to suffer behind bad lines. Maybe for a year due to injuries, but for the most part, those organizations have always invested well in their OL with good results.

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