Thread: Why Case Keenum May Turn Out To Be The Steal Of The Century......

Originally Posted by Nomad

Grown men play Madden? My sons don't even play that anymore. I think all video games suck. #antivideogame

I played Madden until I got married, age has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by Freyaka

As to my point regarding madden. Everyone is like "Why don't we trade up" it's not that simple. The teams ahead of us have to be reasonable. You can't destroy your future to find your QB of now. If the right trade comes along at a reasonable price, absolutely, trade up and take the QB you want. But it's not always as easy as trading up, there are a lot of factors involved.

I'm not saying you think it's madden, but some think it's as easy as wanting to trade up and Boom, we've traded up for a reasonable cost...

This is absolutely not true, you need a QB you better go get one and the people that have what you need don’t have to be what you deem as reasonable.

There’s supply and demand, crazy lil thang we call Capitalism.

If all you care about is getting back/forth to work get the Prius, you wanna win something you’re gonna have to put a little more effort into it.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Veldheer is 30 and playing a position that can play at a high level into their mid-thirties. And I don't know where you got the declining part because he is about the same as he's always been.

Talib is at an age where DB's tend to retire. If he only cost 4 or 5 million, then I'd buy into your argument of his value as a leader and 3rd CB. But at 12 million...that goes out the window. Kirk Cousins is a good example. He wanted 30 million and only had 2 suitors. If he only cost 22 million, he'd have had 10 teams calling him. But the biggest difference overall is that Talib's replacement played better than him last year. The guy Veldheer is replacing did not.

Veldheer is so “pretty much the same as he’s always been” that the same regime that brought him in got rid of him for next to nothing.

Btw, how old was Clady when his play fell off the face of the Earth? Veldheer is also playing a position where that can happen.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I guess it's one opinion against another, but I'll still maintain that improving the OL, improving the DL and adding a player that can cover TE's has a much higher value than a 3rd corner.

Talib wasn’t the 3rd CB, though.

Good luck finding a source that says Talib was declining but Veldheer “was pretty much the same as he’s always been”.

Keenum had one good year on a stacked Vikings team. He completely disappeared in the playoffs too. Kirk Cousins has been the most statistically consistent QB over the past 3 season on a mediocre Redskins team. I may be wrong but I get the feeling Cousins has a career year with the Vikings and possible MVP consideration while Keenum has a step back from last year.

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Keenum had one good year on a stacked Vikings team. He completely disappeared in the playoffs too. Kirk Cousins has been the most statistically consistent QB over the past 3 season on a mediocre Redskins team. I may be wrong but I get the feeling Cousins has a career year with the Vikings and possible MVP consideration while Keenum has a step back from last year.

Well, that's not entirely true that Keenum disappeared in the playoffs. In fact, in the NO game, he
passed for 318 yards, completing 62.5%. Guess how Brees did: 294 yards at 62.5%. They both
had 2 INTs. Now, it's true Brees passed for 3 TDs, as opposed to Keenum's 1, but that's because
Minnesota opted to run for TDs. But Keenum did quite well in that game.

Nor did Keenum really disappear in the NFC championship game. He did pass for 271 yards.
I watched that game, and there were many more factors to it than just Keenum. I'm not trying
to excuse him; he didn't play an especially good game. But then, Philly's defense had something
to say about that.

The Vikings had talent, no doubt. But when you say "stacked," do you mean the skill positions?
They had a couple good receivers in Thielen and Diggs. But then, most other teams have two
good receivers. He had a good TE. But how much did Keenum have to do with that?

Minnesota had a relatively mediocre running game last year after Dalvin Cook was injured.
Cook's 4,8 Y/A fell to 3.9 for Latavius Murray, and the Vikings finished the season ranked 23rd
in Y/A. And that ranking represents figures that were padded by Dalvin Cook's performances
before he was injured in the fourth game. So Keenum didn't have quite the offensive supporting
cast you seem to think he did.

Regarding your allusion to "one good year," that is not entirely accurate, either. In Keenum's
first year actually on the field (2nd year in the league) he acquitted himself pretty well in the
eight games he started. He didn't set the world on fire, but first year (on the field) QBs seldom
do. But playing on a pitiful Houston team, he did manage 1,760 yards in those 8 games and
passed for more TDs (9) than he did INTs (6).

2014 was a train wreck for him but not of his doing. After two games with Houston, he went to
the Rams where he sat for the rest of the year. But the next year, 2015, he was put onto the
field for six games. Starting with all of 12 games under his belt, he completed 60.8% and passed
for 828 yards and 4 TDs and 1 INT. That's not many TDs, of course, but that does represent a
4:1 TD/INT ratio. Very good. But his 87.7 passer rating wasn't bad for no more experience than
he had.

2016 was his first meaningful season, with 10 games, and he once again found himself playing for
a really bad Los Angeles Rams (4-12) team. He had no help from a running game that ranked 31st
in the league in Y/A. Keenum wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible with receivers whose names
would make you ask, "Who?"

So his past isn't as putrid as some who have not studied his history would make you think. As for
2017, Keenum had more than a good year. He ranked #1 in the league, according to DVOA, and
#2 in the league in QBR. He did that by completing 67.6% of his passes for 3,547 yards (in 14
games, which would average out to 4,054 yards over 16 games), 22 TDS and 7 INTs (3:1 ratio).
And he quarterbacked the team to a 12-4 record (11-3 in regular season) and played in the
championship game. Oh yes, he was also best in the league under pressure.

So, while you mention Cousins looked more consistent over three years, he did play for one team
all that time. It was a mediocre team, as you said, but the Rams team Keenum played for was
just horrendous. (And quarterback-killer Jeff Fisher was the HC.)

Your feeling that Keenum will regress may or may not bear out. But the thing is, it hasn't happened
for him yet. He has improved every year. If his track record indicates anything, it would be further
improvement. And Keenum is a working fool who studies the game like Peyton Manning did. (I'm
not comparing him to Peyton in any other way, so please nobody jump on that.)

As you can see, I have studied Keenum's history. (Oh, BTW, he broke all kinds of passing records
and received all kinds of awards in college.) From what I see, I have the expectation that he will be
even better this year than he was in 2017. Maybe I'm wrong. I could be. But I don't think so at this
point.
.

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Keenum had one good year on a stacked Vikings team. He completely disappeared in the playoffs too. Kirk Cousins has been the most statistically consistent QB over the past 3 season on a mediocre Redskins team. I may be wrong but I get the feeling Cousins has a career year with the Vikings and possible MVP consideration while Keenum has a step back from last year.

The success of the Cousins signing is dependent on getting to the SB, which is one step past where they went with Keenum. If Denver makes it to the playoffs or are even more competitive with Keenum, it's a successful signing. The bar is much higher for Cousins.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Talib wasn’t the 3rd CB, though.

Good luck finding a source that says Talib was declining but Veldheer “was pretty much the same as he’s always been”.

Oh, for God's sake, they didn't get rid of Talib because he was declining, but because they wanted to dump his $12m. This was something they were planning for years.

Talib was a high priced FA. In order to save money the team wants to draft a rookie CB, especially in the first round where you get that 5th year option. Then develop that player, and replace the high priced FA with an equal talent who is under that cheap rookie deal, or perhaps we lock him up a year early so he never hits FA (Chris Harris) and we get him at a discount (Derek Wolfe).

Once Bradley Roby played great last year starting for Talib, it was game over. Roby's contract goes up to $8.5m this year, from $1m, and they want to lock him up long-term at a reasonable price so they won't be bidding for his services in FA in a couple of year and have to pay him $15m a year.

So, Talib became a cap casualty. They could afford him but they preferred to spend the money in other directions, mainly Case Keenum. Siemian only earned about $1m last year, and Keenum is being paid $15m this year. So, that extra $14m had to come from somewhere.

They saved $11m getting rid of Talib.

Originally Posted by 7alpha30

The success of the Cousins signing is dependent on getting to the SB, which is one step past where they went with Keenum. If Denver makes it to the playoffs or are even more competitive with Keenum, it's a successful signing. The bar is much higher for Cousins.

I should think so! $10,000,000 a year higher!

The Broncos are paying Keenum $15m this year, and $25m next year if they keep him (and $10m if they cut him), while the Vikings are paying Cousins $28m a year.

Rather a big difference! You would expect a vast difference in performance for that kind of money! So, Cousins better be an All-Pro, while Keenum would only have to be average to justify his salary because he's getting basically average money, not extreme ground-shaking money like Cousins.

Originally Posted by 7alpha30

The success of the Cousins signing is dependent on getting to the SB, which is one step past where they went with Keenum. If Denver makes it to the playoffs or are even more competitive with Keenum, it's a successful signing. The bar is much higher for Cousins.

The bar is much higher for Cousins, but is Cousins higher? Last year's records between the two say no.

I'm on board with CK. Jury is obviously still out, but I have never viewed him as a BAD QB. He is a gamer who was pretty damn effective given the tools around him. I'm OK with giving him the keys and taking another year to assess PL and CK. Who knows? Maybe CK will continue to improve and we do have our guy.

Oh...and drafting Mike White in the mid rounds.

Originally Posted by Jaded

I played Madden until I got married, age has nothing to do with it.

I still play Madden and other video games on occasion. Its a nice way to get down time from work all week and when the wife is doing her own things. I hear the same thing when it comes to heavy metal music, as if that is only garnered for young people. Never understood that mindset personally. Anyone can have a different type of hobby and most people i know even with children still play video games whether its for their own downtime or with their own children. Other people are into cars or crafting.

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Keenum had one good year on a stacked Vikings team. He completely disappeared in the playoffs too. Kirk Cousins has been the most statistically consistent QB over the past 3 season on a mediocre Redskins team. I may be wrong but I get the feeling Cousins has a career year with the Vikings and possible MVP consideration while Keenum has a step back from last year.

Ive been saying this for weeks.

I play the College Football game over the winter months.

Originally Posted by Jaded

I played Madden until I got married, age has nothing to do with it.

Did I trigger you? I was giving King a hard time. He's my pal.