Thread: Why Case Keenum May Turn Out To Be The Steal Of The Century......

Originally Posted by topscribe

So you don't agree that if a QB continues to have the best DVOA in the league, the
second best overall QBR, the best QBR under pressure, and goes to the playoffs with a
12-4 record, that he should be considered maybe a franchise quarterback? Because
that was what I was saying, and only that.

And I qualified it with maybe he will, and maybe he won't.

I don't know whether that kind of thing ever came about about Orton. But it surely
has become another card to draw: the "Orton Card."

QBR is overrated and overvalues efficiency, which is what a game manager is supposed to do via playing small ball. Best QBR pressure is just a random stat that you pulled trying to validate the guy, and right now Andy Dalton is 'elite' in that category, too. Keenum rode a team with an elite defense into the playoffs and rarely, sans once or twice was able to put up modern NFL big time numbers. So no, doing those things doesn't make you a franchise QB unless someone like Alex Smith is a franchise QB. TDs, yards, and completion percentage is where it's at. And the more limited the passing game the less impressive the completion percentage is. These are thing that people know when they watch the game and pay attention.

You back bad QB's because you convince yourself they're good because you see them be okay once or twice and extrapolate from it greatly. And because you tend to take a very positive stance, i.e. you're a homer, you build up guys like Orton, TS, and Keenum and then hide behind couched language like "maybe they will or maybe they won't." And each time you're proven wrong you take a magical hiatus because you don't want to admit you're wrong.

You'll say you weren't wrong about Orton because high ankle sprains and the like, and he was playing so well, but ignore his performance in Dallas and Buffalo (where he was a nice game manager, but that's it). You'll say you weren't wrong about TS even though we saw enough tape of the guy to know what he is. And you'll backtrack without admitting it on CK if you ever come back. I kind of doubt you will, because your stance on CK is just absolutely horrid.

And it's not even that people are mad at you for being the way you are - it's the sophistry and douchery you promulgate against people who oppose you, especially when they're making better arguments than you are. And deep down inside you know it's true because when that happens you get curt, obtuse, and specious. You talk down to people who know more about the game than you, while talking yourself up via "I've watched this game for decades," and "I played QB!"

The only thing less accurate than a Topscribe prediction on a Bronco QB is a CK deep ball.

Shots fired!

#MurderDance

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Is he better than Trevor Siemien? Without a doubt.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Nope!

Jaded is a God.

Originally Posted by King87

Men of logic and knowledge know when something that is shit is shit. Had CK been signed anywhere else no one here would be so optimistic for him.

Young man you are teller of truth.

Originally Posted by King87

Zimmer is a hardass and a man's man. CK is a career backup and a whiner. Zimmer, on any given day, whips CK's ass.

Young man you understand that when a great coach is unsure of an iffy player, and that player whines about it, it's a red flag.

Originally Posted by Davii

Meh. He's better than what we had and KC wasn't the answer at more money than he got from Minny. My hope is that we're taking a QB early this year and that he works out to be the franchise qb and CK truly is just a stopgap to get that guy ready.

But was he better? KC is carrying a team with a faltering defense in a competitive division.

Originally Posted by King87

KC has a short contract
and had a monster year with nothing around him. We have the same hope, though. I'm also just grumpy.

KC did have a nice year with no one around him.

Originally Posted by Nomad

Davii wins....concede Kinger while you have chance before getting slaughtered.

Oh, Nomad, I love you but you should have learned earlier that when the board tells me I'm wrong I'm usually ahead of the curve.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

OMG, that's TERRIBLE! He made safe throws that his receivers caught for first downs. That's like criticizing a baseball player for only hitting doubles.

It's not that he made those throws so much as that he's only able to make those throws. He isn't an analogy akin to hitting doubles...that boy is bunting.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Interesting thing is most people given the choice between Keenum or Dak Prescott would choose Prescott in a second. But I have to say...I'm still waiting to see him throw a pass longer than 15 yards and complete it. Doesn't affect his efficiency due to a strong OL and running game.

Younger, more talent, cheaper, more mobility. Easy.

Originally Posted by Davii

I just don't know how people can accept this level of production.



I mean, come on, 302 yard, 3 TDs... unacceptable...

First highlight he avoids the rush, keeps his eyes downfield, and makes a good throw to his WR for a first down. WHY GOD?!

Second, pocket collapses immediately, he steps through it and runs for first down. THE TRAGEDY!

The he hits Thielen for about 5 which Thielen turns up and makes it 12. NO! QUIT IT!

Next few, takes the safe 5 yard throws, except one where he fits it between two defenders, but he keeps the ball moving and keeps taking what the D gives him. JUST STOP!

The rest is just more of the same, he fakes handoffs and runs the other way for TDs, completes passes for firsts downs, puts his receivers in good positions... It's just unacceptable.

He's definitely no Peyton Manning, but the guy has talent. He can play, and he's far and away better than what we've had in Denver since The Sherriff retired.

No, he's not much of a NFL talent. And you had to go to one of his few big boy passing games...you know...an outlier. He could play...one season.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

Stop posting.

This message board deserves at least one person who is right...oh nevermind Jaded, Wave, Dan, and Abe are around so maybe I could hit the door.

Originally Posted by King87

No, we're not, because we're getting rid one of one 'declining older player' for another one at tackle.

We also rolled the savings from Ward last offseason, and were left down a leader, down a field general, etc. Maybe's that is now becoming a bit of a pattern?

I would rather have a good corner with leadership skills over a fourth round draft pick, and that's especially true with the Talib VJ rift. Which I think is a bigger part of the equation.

Yeah...styled with this one, too.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Sounds like someone needs to buy some new Bengals shirts. A declining Talib...a player at a position of strength...is traded and his salary is used to acquire players at positions of weakness. It is beyond me how something so simple isn't understood.

I have plenty of expensive oranges and not enough apples or bananas. So, I'll trade some oranges and get some apples and bananas with the extra money. Simple.

Sounds like someone whiffed again. A declining Talib at a place that isn't a position of strength in exchange for a bad QB and an iffy RT who also has injury issues. Your 'simple' equation ignores NFL realities.

Originally Posted by King87

QBR is overrated and overvalues efficiency, which is what a game manager is supposed to do via playing small ball. Best QBR pressure is just a random stat that you pulled trying to validate the guy, and right now Andy Dalton is 'elite' in that category, too. Keenum rode a team with an elite defense into the playoffs and rarely, sans once or twice was able to put up modern NFL big time numbers. So no, doing those things doesn't make you a franchise QB unless someone like Alex Smith is a franchise QB. TDs, yards, and completion percentage is where it's at. And the more limited the passing game the less impressive the completion percentage is. These are thing that people know when they watch the game and pay attention.

You back bad QB's because you convince yourself they're good because you see them be okay once or twice and extrapolate from it greatly. And because you tend to take a very positive stance, i.e. you're a homer, you build up guys like Orton, TS, and Keenum and then hide behind couched language like "maybe they will or maybe they won't." And each time you're proven wrong you take a magical hiatus because you don't want to admit you're wrong.

You'll say you weren't wrong about Orton because high ankle sprains and the like, and he was playing so well, but ignore his performance in Dallas and Buffalo (where he was a nice game manager, but that's it). You'll say you weren't wrong about TS even though we saw enough tape of the guy to know what he is. And you'll backtrack without admitting it on CK if you ever come back. I kind of doubt you will, because your stance on CK is just absolutely horrid.

And it's not even that people are mad at you for being the way you are - it's the sophistry and douchery you promulgate against people who oppose you, especially when they're making better arguments than you are. And deep down inside you know it's true because when that happens you get curt, obtuse, and specious. You talk down to people who know more about the game than you, while talking yourself up via "I've watched this game for decades," and "I played QB!"

The only thing less accurate than a Topscribe prediction on a Bronco QB is a CK deep ball.

I want to have sex with this post. Pure poetry.

Originally Posted by King87

I agree and I think a half-baked rebuild and contention plan, which is what we have now, is doing that. I also think that just going into a proper rebuild is the best bet. I also think that if we wanted to actually try to contend we had better options. I also know that people blew up the Eagles and the Rams for trading heavily for their guys. Didn't the Texans trade up? Do you think those teams regret that now? Should they?

Half-baked rebuild is the nightmare. Going after legitimate QB talents is the dream, baby.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

Jesus. These last few pages gave me a headache.

King, you'll make a fine attorney. You talk a lot, point to a bunch of "stuff", but don't make a lot of sense.

This still hurts me, but I know you love me.
]

Originally Posted by topscribe

When he gets it into his head he's right, that's it. There's no turning back. And he doesn't always
need a lot of facts to reach that state of mind. However, he and I have had a lot of conversations
in the past outside of this board, some very deep, and I assure you he's a pretty good guy.

I'm a slave to facts and proper analysis, though.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

I hope you become a really good defense attorney. You have a unique ability to take situational facts and statistics and create a story.

You're the next Johnnie Cochran!

I still chuckle at this, well played.

Originally Posted by Nomad

I wonder what King looks like in a suit & tie.

Like a meaty but handsome tub of lard.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

He's quite the handsome fellow.

True!

They made me do this. You think I want to be a killer? You think I asked for this?

#KeepinDaPimpHandStrong

Originally Posted by Jaded

#KeepinDaPimpHandStrong

I'm the shooter and the driver. I'm the killer and the styler!

What happens when a thread turns into auto eroticism.

#Flo-Killa.

Originally Posted by wayninja

What happens when a thread turns into auto eroticism.

Is that car porn?

A ‘69 GTO gives me a Chubb.

Originally Posted by dogfish

don't do it-- somebody will throw eggs at you. . .



i think we can state conclusively that keenum is NOT the steal of the century. . .

I'd throw eggs at him beard or no beard.

Topscribe has been noticeably absent since the season started...

Because you guys killed his spirit in absentia.

Originally Posted by wayninja

Because you guys killed his spirit in absentia.

Well...hopefully for his sake, the next QB he latches himself to isn't a worthless pile of rubbish.