Thread: Why Case Keenum May Turn Out To Be The Steal Of The Century......

Originally Posted by FanInAZ

Manning's & Oz's combined stat line when our led us to the SB 50 win:
368-606, 60.7, 4216 yards, 19 TDs & 23 INTs 76.3 QBR https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/den/2015.htm

Case Keenum's 2017 stats:
325-481, 67.6, 3547 yards, 22 TDs & 7 INTs 98.3 QBR https://www.pro-football-reference.c...K/KeenCa00.htm

This isn’t useful to refute my argument about him individually.

Originally Posted by King87

Considering that he’s a low production guy, I’m not sure it matters.

So you don't have rebuttal? It's kind of a valid point regardless of your opinion of his production level. You are knocking the guy because he didn't have fancy numbers in that specific game. He completed a high percentage of his passes. He runs the plays called, I guess I'm confused about how it's a negative that his coach called nothing but short yardage plays and he executed them efficiently. The times they asked him to stretch the field and produce he did.

You claim he's "low production" but I'm not sure I'd call that a fair assessment either. He started 14 games (we'll call it 15, because he played nearly a full game stats wise) so he's got one less game played than most other QB's yet he's 12th in yards, 12th in TD's only has 7 INT's. Now, I will grant you, if he regresses back to pre-2017 performance, yes, low is fair, but I guess I'm looking at this from a positive side and looking at last year as a year where he grew as a QB rather than just putting it 100 percent on the system and players.

If you want to say "average production" I think I could agree with that, but he's top 15 in almost every category despite having missed a game last year.

If we have the QB the Vikings had last year, I think we're going to be really good as long as the defense is back on track. What we have at QB right now is miles better than what we had in 2015 (as long as he performs at the same level he did last year)

Look, no one is saying he's Brees or Manning in his prime or Brady or any of them. If that's your standard for a QB, you are going to be disappointed the rest of your life, we will likely NEVER have another QB at Manning's level. But if our defense can get back to championship form, I'm ok with a top 15 QB who protects the ball and doesn't turn it over and plays at an average level of production.

Originally Posted by Freyaka

So you don't have rebuttal? It's kind of a valid point regardless of your opinion of his production level. You are knocking the guy because he didn't have fancy numbers in that specific game. He completed a high percentage of his passes. He runs the plays called, I guess I'm confused about how it's a negative that his coach called nothing but short yardage plays and he executed them efficiently. The times they asked him to stretch the field and produce he did.

You claim he's "low production" but I'm not sure I'd call that a fair assessment either. He started 14 games (we'll call it 15, because he played nearly a full game stats wise) so he's got one less game played than most other QB's yet he's 12th in yards, 12th in TD's only has 7 INT's. Now, I will grant you, if he regresses back to pre-2017 performance, yes, low is fair, but I guess I'm looking at this from a positive side and looking at last year as a year where he grew as a QB rather than just putting it 100 percent on the system and players.

If you want to say "average production" I think I could agree with that, but he's top 15 in almost every category despite having missed a game last year.

If we have the QB the Vikings had last year, I think we're going to be really good as long as the defense is back on track. What we have at QB right now is miles better than what we had in 2015 (as long as he performs at the same level he did last year)

Look, no one is saying he's Brees or Manning in his prime or Brady or any of them. If that's your standard for a QB, you are going to be disappointed the rest of your life, we will likely NEVER have another QB at Manning's level. But if our defense can get back to championship form, I'm ok with a top 15 QB who protects the ball and doesn't turn it over and plays at an average level of production.

Rebuttal? HOw can I rebuttal an irrelevant point? You're literally going "but those games maybe the gameplan was wrong," when the production level of the guy was low the entire season. So the entire season the gameplan was wrong?

It's not valid, and I brought up the slowdown at the end of the year because he fell off completely in the playoffs. Why is that relevant? Because when a single season is a guy's career, you don't want to see a drop off at the end of the year.

We are literally repeating arguments from TS, btw.

And yes, people here are puffing the guy up as a big time QB.

Originally Posted by King87

Rebuttal? HOw can I rebuttal an irrelevant point? You're literally going "but those games maybe the gameplan was wrong," when the production level of the guy was low the entire season. So the entire season the gameplan was wrong?

It's not valid, and I brought up the slowdown at the end of the year because he fell off completely in the playoffs. Why is that relevant? Because when a single season is a guy's career, you don't want to see a drop off at the end of the year.

We are literally repeating arguments from TS, btw.

And yes, people here are puffing the guy up as a big time QB.

How does one get in the top 15 with low production? I'm confused?

Are games of
369 with 3td, 0 INT
288 2 TD 1 INT
304 4 TD 2 INT
280 1 TD 0 INT
282 2 TD 0 INT
277 2 TD 0 INT
280 2 TD 2 INT (this one is icky, INT/TD-wise but still decent production)
236 2 TD 0 INT

low production? Those are his highest production games. Yes, he had some low games as well, I get that, but you are painting him to be Trent Dilfer over here... All I'm saying is lets be fair here. Based on the way he played last year, he's average at worst in his production or slightly above average at best. He will be sufficient to win us a lot of games if the defense plays better this year and frankly, he's the best option we've had in the last three years. You want Paxton Lynch starting? Or should we trade to get Trevor back? He's an improvement and he's what we've got...

Literally no one is saying he's on the same level of Brady, Brees, Manning, ect... Quit making crap up. Even top and his orange colored homer glasses hasn't said that...

No we are not repeating anything from TS. The only thing being repeated is us trying to point out "he's better than you are giving him credit for" that's the extent of the similarities.

just my 2 cents here on production.

Minne ran the ball 30 times a game (30.4 official). 3rd highest in the league. Jacksonville and Buffalo where higher.

If you look at the stats of the guys on the teams that lead the league in rushes, he was right there with them. Im not sure you can knock the guy for producing what he did with the chances he had.

This is all trying to have an open mind about our QB situation, which is hard, considering I have little faith in the staff to make anyone usable.

Originally Posted by Krugan

just my 2 cents here on production.

Minne ran the ball 30 times a game (30.4 official). 3rd highest in the league. Jacksonville and Buffalo where higher.

If you look at the stats of the guys on the teams that lead the league in rushes, he was right there with them. Im not sure you can knock the guy for producing what he did with the chances he had.

This is all trying to have an open mind about our QB situation, which is hard, considering I have little faith in the staff to make anyone usable.

Exactly. And I don't think one can criticize a low production game without seeing that game.
For instance, in his second game against Green Bay last year, Keenum threw for about 140
yards, IIRC. His long ball seemed to have deserted him. But he still performed admirably in
deep outs and down the middle. The running game wasn't especially clicking, either. The
problem wasn't Keenum and the Minnesota offense. The problem was the Green Bay defense.
Still, Keenum didn't give the ball away, and he passed for the only TD in the game by either
side. And the Vikings won.

Originally Posted by Krugan

just my 2 cents here on production.

Minne ran the ball 30 times a game (30.4 official). 3rd highest in the league. Jacksonville and Buffalo where higher.

If you look at the stats of the guys on the teams that lead the league in rushes, he was right there with them. Im not sure you can knock the guy for producing what he did with the chances he had.

This is all trying to have an open mind about our QB situation, which is hard, considering I have little faith in the staff to make anyone usable.

Why did they run the ball so much when they apparently had this incredible QB on their hands?

Why is being right there with Blake Bortles and Tyrod Taylor so impressive, the QB's of Jax and Buffalo? Anyone clamoring for those guys? I'm knocking the guy for average overall production because that's what he put up in his banner year, and that banner year is the only thing that props him up. I'm not sure you cannot do that, to be honest.

This isn't about trying to have an open mind - you're either the guy or you're not. If you're not the guy, you might have some nice years here and there, but ultimately you're not going to be able to put the team on your back when you're needed the most. At least not consistently, that is. When you're looking at the QB position, you don't want to have to do mental gymnastics to justify the guy.

And that's literally what this thread is.

Originally Posted by King87

And that's literally what this thread is.

No, it's actually you being a douche bag.

Well.....hello, King, how's your day going? How was your week of schooling?

Originally Posted by Nomad

Well.....hello, King, how's your day going? How was your week of schooling?

He got schooled.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

He got schooled.

LoL. Sorry, King, that was funny.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

He got schooled.

F- post.

Originally Posted by King87

F- post.

That was an A+ post King, and you know it!

i love watching people post stats to "prove" what's going to happen next season. . .

Originally Posted by dogfish

i love watching people post stats to "prove" what's going to happen next season. . .

I'm not a stat guy either.