Thread: Siemien to Vikings

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

This. They weren't world-beaters, but our QB's certainly didn't help.

Based on Denver doing nothing in free agency, and if they don't get Nelson at 5, we may get a chance to see if you guys are right. Personally, I don't want to see Keenum playing behind the same line, but I admit it would be interesting to see what happens.

Originally Posted by Tned

Based on Denver doing nothing in free agency, and if they don't get Nelson at 5, we may get a chance to see if you guys are right. Personally, I don't want to see Keenum playing behind the same line, but I admit it would be interesting to see what happens.

No matter what Denver does in the 1st round, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go after
Hernandez in the 2nd, assuming he's available.

Originally Posted by topscribe

No matter what Denver does in the 1st round, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go after
Hernandez in the 2nd, assuming he's available.

As their two biggest needs entering this offseason were LG ant RT, I would love to see them take G and T with their first two picks.

Originally Posted by Tned

As their two biggest needs entering this offseason were LG ant RT, I would love to see them take G and T with their first two picks.

Yes, I mentioned elsewhere about my sweet dreams of taking Nelson and then McGlinchey.

Oh well, one can dream, can't one?

Originally Posted by Tned

I think our QBs made our line look better than it was.

Hard for a QB to cause a RT to stand still and let a rusher wink at the RT as he goes by the statue -- aka RT.

RT was a soup sandwich without question, as was Trevor’s lack of stepping up into the pocket/running backwards/holding the ball too long.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

RT was a soup sandwich without question, as was Trevor’s lack of stepping up into the pocket/running backwards/holding the ball too long.

To be fair, some of Trevor's backward movement was caused by the collapse of the interior line.
Garcia, for instance, was a matador . . .

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

RT was a soup sandwich without question, as was Trevor’s lack of stepping up into the pocket/running backwards/holding the ball too long.

He caused a lot of the problems and could never help the situation out. I'm hoping that CK with be the antithesis to him in this regard.

Originally Posted by Tned

Based on Denver doing nothing in free agency, and if they don't get Nelson at 5, we may get a chance to see if you guys are right. Personally, I don't want to see Keenum playing behind the same line, but I admit it would be interesting to see what happens.

Obviously the same thing would happen to Keenum as happened to Siemian. Injury.

Only they would be wasting $25m if they did that, rather than $660,000.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Isn't Turner a tackle? I think most have him taking over RT and McGovern in at RG.
That would seem to make more sense, wouldn't it?

He's listed on the depth chart as a G, but who the hell knows at this point? Basically, they have no RG outside Ron Leary or Connor McGovern, who might be the starting C this year if Paradis gets some ridiculous offer and the Broncos don't match (which could happen).

In any case McGovern is the ONLY quality backup for the entire OL, so they better get somebody else in the draft.

Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
RT was a soup sandwich without question, as was Trevor’s lack of stepping up into the pocket/running backwards/holding the ball too long.

Pocket? Bwa-hahahahaha!

"Pocket? You're talking about POCKET?? "Stepping up into the Pocket"??? Don't talk about Pocket!"

Originally Posted by topscribe

To be fair, some of Trevor's backward movement was caused by the collapse of the interior line.
Garcia, for instance, was a matador . . .

I’m aware of that, yet there were times he alone was responsible for it, including needlessly throwing off his back foot.

Top, I believe I’m being objective. I defended him most of the season, but there came a point when it was obvious he was hurting the team and no one else was to be blamed

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

RT was a soup sandwich without question, as was Trevor’s lack of stepping up into the pocket/running backwards/holding the ball too long.

What I posted a week or so ago. Dispelling some of the myth of their being a pocket for him to step in to.

Originally Posted by Tned

Agreed on Bolles. He held at times to save QB after being beat. I think he'll be better this year.

We've now had among the worst RT play in the league for multiple years. LG only slightly better.

Watson graded (PFF) the 73rd ranked tackle, and gave up the second most sacks, but in ONLY nine games.

Garcia was the ninth worst guard in the league with 34 pressures and four sacks, and he alternated time with Barbre.

Barbre was the 69th rated guard overall and his pass protection rating was worse than Garcia's.

Garcia was 55 out of 61 guards in pass blocking efficiency.

Leary was 13th, so it's hard to blame Garcia's woes on Siemian or it would have effected Leary as well. The guards combined to give up 7 sacks and 71 pressures.

Watson/Barbre/Stephenson/Turner combined for an even work pass blocking efficiency at Right tackle, lower rank and combined to give up 17 sacks and 68 pressures. Boles on the other side gave up 8 sacks and 51 pressures.

That's 190 pressures 567 drop backs that the Broncos QB's took or them being pressured one out of three drop backs.

So, while nobody is going to argue we had great QB play or that any of the Broncos QBs were able to overcome the horrendous line and unimaginative play calling, it's simply a denial of facts and visual evidence to attempt to make any case that the pass blocking wasn't horrendous.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Obviously the same thing would happen to Keenum as happened to Siemian. Injury.

Only they would be wasting $25m if they did that, rather than $660,000.

Exactly. Hence the reason the two greatest offseason holes that needed, and still need, to be fixed are LG and RT. I'm making an assumption that Boles will be better in his second year and also that some of his problems was playing next to an incompentent LG and sometimes having to choose to block inside to cover Garcia's guy and let his own go.

The problem is that this doesn't do what you think it does. The line was bad, but that doesn't mean that there weren't pockets from time to time. The line didn't fail at blocking every single snap - the line was ranked overall in the low 20's, which is bad, but not so bad that it failed every time. And in the gameday threads you can find examples of the fans, watching the game, in real time, seeing him hold onto the ball too long and not step up in the pocket. You're not dispelling a myth by listing stats that the line was bad - you're evidencing the fact that the line was bad.

If you have pressure on the edge, for instance, and the pocket holds in the middle, you can step up into the rest of the pocket. That's one of the ways that guys like Manning and Brady, with almost no mobility, can get away from pressure, and that's why you need pressure up the middle to keep a pass rush consistent (which we know from the other end of the analysis with our defense).

Surely, you do not mean to suggest that there was never a pocket to step up into, and that our QB's never failed to step up into the pocket?

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

The problem is that this doesn't do what you think it does. The line was bad, but that doesn't mean that there weren't pockets from time to time. The line didn't fail at blocking every single snap - the line was ranked overall in the low 20's, which is bad, but not so bad that it failed every time. And in the gameday threads you can find examples of the fans, watching the game, in real time, seeing him hold onto the ball too long and not step up in the pocket. You're not dispelling a myth by listing stats that the line was bad - you're evidencing the fact that the line was bad.

If you have pressure on the edge, for instance, and the pocket holds in the middle, you can step up into the rest of the pocket. That's one of the ways that guys like Manning and Brady, with almost no mobility, can get away from pressure, and that's why you need pressure up the middle to keep a pass rush consistent (which we know from the other end of the analysis with our defense).

Surely, you do not mean to suggest that there was never a pocket to step up into, and that our QB's never failed to step up into the pocket?

There were pockets. The line had some solid blocking (other than RT). But the problem was that you never knew when it was going to fold and which side would fold. Hard for a QB to know when to slide/where to slide when the pressure can cause any part of the line to collapse.

Young QBs cant read defenses and move them around like guys like Brady and Manning can. More often they take the hit, thrown an INT, run backwards, etc. If it happens enough they develop bad habits and get gun shy.