Thread: Is Keenum That Good Or Was Jeff Fisher Just That Bad?

Don’t need OL help because Case Keenum can throw a football over them mountains.

Originally Posted by Freyaka

Well fine, look at it in the most negative light you can if that helps.

Regardless, Elway's going to have to do his job this year. We've got 10 picks after trading Trevor. We need to hit on WR, RB, TE, RT and MLB. It is vital that we at least find a RT and an MLB. Hopefully Butt pans out, that would take out TE and while I doubt it happens, there is still hope for Jordan Taylor and Carlos Henderson. I'd also like us to give Eric Decker a call, I know, you just want to trash his one time he tripped, but he'd make a solid slot and redzone target.

It wasn’t just one time.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

With our current roster, Aaron Rodgers might not be good enough to get us to a Super Bowl

I said Tom Brady, but the point is the same. No QB who ever lived, including John Elway '86 could get this team to a SB with the talent level on the team, and if he did, they would get blown out like the early Elway teams did.

They need a RT, a RG, a TE, a WR, maybe 2, and QB, and that's just on offense.
On defense they need a DT, an ILB, maybe 2, a CB.

And that is just the starters they need to replace. There is also the fact that the team has shed depth. Mike Pritchard was talking about this on the radio the other day.

You get a great player like Talib, then he's gone, and you advance Bradley Roby into his spot. Well, that affects everything. You had Roby as your #3 CB, and now he's #2, but the guy behind him is no Bradley Roby. Brenden Langley? Dude was a reach and hasn't developed anything like that.

So, the talent level of your team declines. Last year when Talib was out, Roby started and was fine, but if either of Denver's starting 2 CBs misses a game, who will take their place? Nobody on this roster could step into that role and not get torched. So, the team needs to draft good young CBs to beef up their roster.

This is true at almost every position. There's zero depth behind the WRs. Even if Jake Butt turns out to be a pro-bowl TE (could take a few years) who is there behind him?

Same thing is true at LB where they also have zero quality depth.

What has happened is that the SB 50 team since then has lost guys like DeMarcus Ware, Talib, Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan, Wade Phillips, TJ Ward and others, and none of their replacements has been better than any of the guys who retired, was traded or left in FA.

Talent drain. To the point where the Broncos simply need 7 or 8 new starters just to compete for a SB. That's going to take a few years to build up the roster.

That says nothing about a young and inexperienced coaching roster too with VJ and Woods opening only their 2nd season in their jobs, and still learning. Will they develop into top quality coaches?

Anybody who tends to doubt that should simply take a look at the talent level on the Rams and Eagles and Vikings rosters and compare those players to the Broncos. Those teams are simply better at most positions, not just QB.

Dude, Elway never had a team as good as ‘17 team until Reeves was let go. ES, DT? ... uhhhhhhh, no! Von, Harris, Talibing? No.

Elway took a bunch of Todd Davis’s and 1 or 2 Derek Wolfe’s to the dance.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

So, we have a bad roster. Our FA period has been picking up a pedestrian CB, letting a good CB go, and signing a very average QB. We will have, hopefully, an injection of youth. How much of an impact in the positive do you expect them to make?

You know, I don't like to see veterans leave this team and be replaced by rookies and young players who have to develop to be as good. But, realistically, how many years of solid drafting and smart FA acquisitions would it take for Denver to get back to a SB, forgetting about QB for a minute?

2 or 3. They need an almost complete rebuild, and worse, they have to maintain the attitude of competing and winning while they are doing that, because a culture of losing is easy to establish and tends to perpetuate itself. Just ask the Raiders, who went from SB to bottom-dwellers and then stayed there for over a decade.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Dude, Elway never had a team as good as ‘17 team until Reeves was let go. ES, DT? ... uhhhhhhh, no! Von, Harris, Talibing? No.

Elway took a bunch of Todd Davis’s and 1 or 2 Derek Wolfe’s to the dance.

I thought about that, but that's why I said "even if they did they'd be blown out." Maybe Elway of "The Drive" could somehow will this team to a SB, but the Eagles would beat them like the Redskins and Giants did those teams.

And there ain't no Elway '86 coming to Denver anytime soon, so that is a pretty irrelevant point anyway. Let's say the Broncos had Aaron Rogers, arguably the best QB in the NFL right now (not the best team). Well, Rogers has gone to 1 SB. He wouldn't win any championships with this roster.

It’s not irrelevant, the Broncos still need a QB, if that’s part of the process it ALWAYS starts there.

Originally Posted by Jaded

It’s not irrelevant, the Broncos still need a QB, if that’s part of the process it ALWAYS starts there.

I think you're missing the point deliberately. All the fan focus has been on QB. But the rest of the Broncos roster just isn't ready to compete for championships, no matter who the QB is.

They need a couple of years of really great drafting and FA acquisitions that all pan out. THEN maybe they could hope to compete with the Pittsburgh and New Englands to go to the SB.

The #5 pick of the draft gives them an amazing opportunity to start. So, unless there's a QB that Elway is convinced will be there at #5 who will turn out to be a SB caliber QB (not sure at this point), then take a Nelson, or Chubb, or Minkah Fitzpatrick, or whoever the best player on the board is regardless of position.

Drafting for need is how the Broncos got into this talent deficit in the first place.

"We need a QB! Gotta get a QB! Who's the best QB we can draft? Hmmn. OK, Paxton Lynch isn't as good as Goff or Carson Wentz, but he could be there at #26 so let's take him."

Moral of the story: If you are not sure that a QB is an elite prospect, then don't draft him in the first round.

There is no consensus on any of the top 4 QBs in this draft, which makes me think none of them are really that good. That makes me lean towards drafting the best player who falls to #5 and just rolling out there with Keenum and seeing how that goes.

Because it's worse to waste a top 5 pick on a guy who turns out to be the next Paxton Lynch.

Originally Posted by Cugel

I thought about that, but that's why I said "even if they did they'd be blown out." Maybe Elway of "The Drive" could somehow will this team to a SB, but the Eagles would beat them like the Redskins and Giants did those teams.

And there ain't no Elway '86 coming to Denver anytime soon, so that is a pretty irrelevant point anyway. Let's say the Broncos had Aaron Rogers, arguably the best QB in the NFL right now (not the best team). Well, Rogers has gone to 1 SB. He wouldn't win any championships with this roster.

Cug, your pessimism underwhelms me. You seem to forget that the Broncos finished -17 in the
turnover margin last year and nearly 40% of the opponents' starting drives began on the Broncos'
end of the field. The Broncos' Achilles (besides green QBs) was the O-line. Rodgers had two
attributes that would have countered the Broncos' problems: (1) pocket awareness and
escapability and (2) the ability to throw receivers open.

The defense was still filled with studs who played in the Super Bowl, and given the chances to
play normally, their games would have ended with much different results for them. DT and
Emmanuel were (and are) still blue-chip receivers and would have been All-Pros on the other
end of Rodger's passes, IMO. C.J. Anderson would have run rampant because of the threat of
Rodgers.

Yes, in my opinion, the Broncos with Rodgers could have been a playoff team and might even
have gone deep into the playoffs.

Originally Posted by Cugel

There is no consensus on any of the top 4 QBs in this draft, which makes me think none of them are really that good. That makes me lean towards drafting the best player who falls to #5 and just rolling out there with Keenum and seeing how that goes.

Because it's worse to waste a top 5 pick on a guy who turns out to be the next Paxton Lynch.

There are four spots ahead of us and 3 QB hungry teams, if even one QB hungry team jumps us, none of the top 4 are left. I'm really thinking we won't be getting a QB this draft. Looks like it'll be Barkley, Chubb or Nelson for us.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Cug, your pessimism underwhelms me. You seem to forget that the Broncos finished -17 in the
turnover margin last year and nearly 40% of the opponents' starting drives began on the Broncos'
end of the field. The Broncos' Achilles (besides green QBs) was the O-line. Rodgers had two
attributes that countered the Broncos' problems: (1) pocket awareness and escapability and (2)
the ability to throw receivers open.

The defense was still filled with studs who played in the Super Bowl, and given the chances to
play normal games would have ended in a much different result for them. DT and Emmanuel
were (and are) till blue-chip receivers and would have been All-Pros on the other end of Rodger's
passes, IMO. C.J. Anderson would have run rampant because of the threat of Rodgers.

Yes, in my opinion, the Broncos with Rodgers would have been a playoff team and might even
have gone deep into the playoffs.

Did he really say that Rodgers wouldnt of made a difference on this team last year? Lol

Originally Posted by Northman

Did he really say that Rodgers wouldnt of made a difference on this team last year? Lol

Well, he didn't say Rodgers wouldn't have made a difference, but he said Rodgers couldn't
have won a championship with them. Of course, you never know what would happen, and
we'll never know what could have happened, but with Rodgers, everybody would have all
the sudden been better: the O-line, WRs, RBs, and even TEs. And even the defense since
they would be coming in on the right end of the field.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Cug, your pessimism underwhelms me. You seem to forget that the Broncos finished -17 in the
turnover margin last year and nearly 40% of the opponents' starting drives began on the Broncos'
end of the field. The Broncos' Achilles (besides green QBs) was the O-line. Rodgers had two
attributes that would have countered the Broncos' problems: (1) pocket awareness and
escapability and (2) the ability to throw receivers open.

The defense was still filled with studs who played in the Super Bowl, and given the chances to
play normally, their games would have ended with much different results for them. DT and
Emmanuel were (and are) still blue-chip receivers and would have been All-Pros on the other
end of Rodger's passes, IMO. C.J. Anderson would have run rampant because of the threat of
Rodgers.

Yes, in my opinion, the Broncos with Rodgers could have been a playoff team and might even
have gone deep into the playoffs.

You said you disagreed, and then you didn't disagree at all! I said SB championship.

And you just said that if this team got Aaron Rogers they could be a "playoff team and might even go deep in the playoffs."

Yes, that means they would go 10-6 or something, get a wild-card and win in KC or somewhere, then get beat by the Steelers or Patriots in the divisional round.

In short, this team flat wasn't good enough to win the SB last year, no matter who their QB was. Which is exactly what I said. Aaron Rogers took a 7-9 team and made them single-handedly a 10-6 team. They beat the Giants and Cowboys and lost to the Falcons in the NFC Championship. We know they had 7-9 talent because that's what they did this year without Rogers, and 10-6 and conference championship game was their record in 2016.

So, Rogers alone was worth 3 wins to them. Add 3 or 4 wins to the Broncos 2017 and it's 9-7 at best, and that's not enough to lift Denver to anywhere close to the SB.

The Broncos would have been miles better last year with Rodgers. How is that even debatable?