Thread: Is Keenum That Good Or Was Jeff Fisher Just That Bad?

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

That’s an improvement over last year’s smoke only approach.

There was fire too. A dumpster fire.

#SeeWhatIDidThere?

Originally Posted by Jaded

There was fire too. A dumpster fire.

#SeeWhatIDidThere?

The gift horse- the offense that keeps on giving (the ball away)

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

The thing to keep in mind...at least in my opinion...is that in the process of not having a shot at one of the top QB's in the draft, we will have a shot at many of the top players in the draft. I don't personally think ANY of the QB's available are top 5 overall. Whichever order you put them in, we have a shot at one of Barkley, Nelson, Chubb, Fitzpatrick, Edmunds, Ward...all of which are better overall players than Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield.

Frankly, the Broncos need ALL of those players. Barkley or Nelson will almost certainly be on the board at #5, and possibly both if someone (Buffalo) who wants Mayfield or Allen is willing to trade up to #4 to get him.

Just take a look at these season highlights for Barkley. Lots of players have highlight film, but take a look at the moves, athleticism, agility, and pass catching ability. It just pops off the film. This guy is a future star RB in the NFL. No doubt.

If the Broncos could get that guy at 5 it would be a steal. I'd be fine with Nelson too since he projects as a ten year All-Pro G. Check it out. In his highlights he just buries his man on over 1/2 the plays.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Frankly, the Broncos need ALL of those players.

This seems like a brilliant strategy. Someone get on the ringer to John!

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

This seems like a brilliant strategy. Someone get on the ringer to John!

Cugel is the king of stating the obvious - with a 3,000 word post.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Hmm . . . I was kind of drinking the Barkley kool-aide. But you helped to bring me back
a bit toward my previous attitude about RBs. The RB class is particularly deep this year,
so why invest the #5 on one, even as illustrious as Barkley? Championships are generally
won in the lines . . .

i'd rather take nelson. . . he'll help you get a lot of the same productivity out of a rashaad penny type back as you'd get out of barkley behind our current line-- and give our QBs clean pockets to throw from, as well. . . and when barkley starts winding down, nelson will have another 5-7 years of maximizing your RB production. . . with keenum on a 2-year deal, and no legit QBOTF on hand, the broncos shouldn't just be drafting to build around keenum in the short term-- they should be drafting for the long game. . . but even in the short term, replacing the sieve garcia with a rock does a tremendous amount to make our QB's lives easier. . .

Originally Posted by dogfish

i'd rather take nelson. . . he'll help you get a lot of the same productivity out of a rashaad penny type back as you'd get out of barkley behind our current line-- and give our QBs clean pockets to throw from, as well. . . and when barkley starts winding down, nelson will have another 5-7 years of maximizing your RB production. . . with keenum on a 2-year deal, and no legit QBOTF on hand, the broncos shouldn't just be drafting to build around keenum in the short term-- they should be drafting for the long game. . . but even in the short term, replacing the sieve garcia with a rock does a tremendous amount to make our QB's lives easier. . .

Yeah...drafting Nelson is like 1/5 drafting Barkley, 1/5 drafting Rosen, etc. Makes so much sense with the amount of uncertainty in our future personnel and scheme.

I watched a lot of Barkley film today. I'm ok with the pick, he reminds me of LT. Not crazy that he's not a Gurley/Elliot finisher type of back, but he's a generational type specimen with production. Kind of makes sense with Keenum, too. It is also cool to watch an asskicker running back.

Not sure if he'd flourish with the line as it is and Musgrave, it's hard for me to explain exactly why. Well...he's not a run up the middle punisher even though he's 230. He excels when he has space, kind of like a Christian McCaffrey that can't be arm-tackled. I think he'll look a lot like his Ohio State film behind this line--but it's possible the 2018 version of this personnel under new coaching will look better.

Originally Posted by dogfish

i'd rather take nelson. . . he'll help you get a lot of the same productivity out of a rashaad penny type back as you'd get out of barkley behind our current line-- and give our QBs clean pockets to throw from, as well. . . and when barkley starts winding down, nelson will have another 5-7 years of maximizing your RB production. . . with keenum on a 2-year deal, and no legit QBOTF on hand, the broncos shouldn't just be drafting to build around keenum in the short term-- they should be drafting for the long game. . . but even in the short term, replacing the sieve garcia with a rock does a tremendous amount to make our QB's lives easier. . .

Very good points. I've never been a fan of 1st round RBs, actually. Just lost my head for a moment.

Nelson, OL, Notre Dame
Michel, RB, Georgia
White, QB, Western Kentucky
Evan Berry, KR/PR, Tennessee (later rounds)
Thank me later

http://www.draftblaster.com/2018-nfl...tern-kentucky/

For all you fans who want the Broncos to draft and develop a QB at #5, when was the last time the Broncos successfully do that? When have the Broncos ever been able to draft a QB and turn him into a long term starter, let alone a star QB? John Elway was a trade, Plummer was a FA, and Peyton was a FA.

When in the last 30 years have the Broncos ever been able to identify a QB in the draft and turn him into a star QB? We saw Paxton Lynch and Trevor Siemian. Was it just that they sucked or was it that this organization just doesn't really know how to develop QBs?

The QBs they drafted and "developed" were Paxton Lynch, Trevor Siemian, Jay Cutler, Brian Griese, Tommy Maddox?

Do you have any confidence in Vance Joseph to be able to do it this time if they draft a very raw Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield?

I have to admit that I just don't. I want veteran QBs because they are already developed. You don't have to develop Case Keenum. He might not be an elite QB but he's good already.

Originally Posted by Cugel

For all you fans who want the Broncos to draft and develop a QB at #5, when was the last time the Broncos successfully do that? When have the Broncos ever been able to draft a QB and turn him into a long term starter, let alone a star QB? John Elway was a trade, Plummer was a FA, and Peyton was a FA.

When in the last 30 years have the Broncos ever been able to identify a QB in the draft and turn him into a star QB? We saw Paxton Lynch and Trevor Siemian. Was it just that they sucked or was it that this organization just doesn't really know how to develop QBs?

The QBs they drafted and "developed" were Paxton Lynch, Trevor Siemian, Jay Cutler, Brian Griese, Tommy Maddox?

Do you have any confidence in Vance Joseph to be able to do it this time if they draft a very raw Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield?

I have to admit that I just don't. I want veteran QBs because they are already developed. You don't have to develop Case Keenum. He might not be an elite QB but he's good already.

So you are saying, because we havent before, we shouldnt ever? Like in the rare year we get to draft in the top 5. Where most of the big names have come from, that early first round, even though these names arent sure fire greats, there is a higher percentage in this drafting area.

Not sure I get that line of thinking.

Originally Posted by Krugan

So you are saying, because we havent before, we shouldnt ever? Like in the rare year we get to draft in the top 5. Where most of the big names have come from, that early first round, even though these names arent sure fire greats, there is a higher percentage in this drafting area.

Not sure I get that line of thinking.

No, I don't think Elway is gun shy. He'll pull the trigger again on a Qb if there is one he likes. It's ME who doesn't trust this organizations' ability to develop young QBs. When have they ever done it?

And who has really great confidence VJ and his coaching carousel can do it now? Nothing based on last year presumably.

But, I think the evidence is that Elway's going to stick with Case Keenum for 2 years:

Case Keenum contract is a pretty strong two-year deal

The Denver Broncos have strongly committed to Case Keenum for the next two years with a cap hit of $15M in 2018 and $21M in 2019.

Dan Graziano
✔
@DanGrazianoESPN

Case Keenum's Broncos deal is for two years, $36M, of which $25M is fully guaranteed at signing. He gets a $6M signing bonus, a fully guaranteed $8M 2018 salary and a $4M 2018 roster bonus. His $18M 2019 salary is guaranteed against injury, and $7M of it is guaranteed at signing.

The $6 million signing bonus means the Broncos will take a $15 million cap hit in 2018 and a bigger $21 million cap hit in 2019, but with the dead cap sitting at $10 million in 2019 it is unlikely the team will even consider moving on from Keenum before the end of his two-year deal.

The likelihood of the Broncos taking a quarterback in the 2018 NFL Draft is still high, but with the potential draft pick having two years to sit it could open some doors for a project quarterback like Josh Allen who would need some time to develop.

First of all, Allen is now unlikely to be on the board past #3 to the Jets or at worst #4 to the Browns (trade).

Note the details of Keenum's contract. The deal has a low cap hit this year, but a high $21m cap hit in 2019. That makes it awfully difficult to move on from Keenum in 2019 unless he's just a disaster.

And what is the point of drafting a QB at #5 and then sitting him on the bench for 2 years?

That's the very definition of a developmental QB. Much more sensible if they want to do that is to draft someone like Mason Rudolph in the late first or 2nd round, perhaps even trading down from #5 to the Bills or someone who wants Mayfield.

They could take a defensive player like S Derwin James ("a faster version of Cam Chancellor") and then still get a T like

"The $6 million signing bonus means the Broncos will take a $15 million cap hit in 2018 and a bigger $21 million cap hit in 2019, but with the dead cap sitting at $10 million in 2019 it is unlikely the team will even consider moving on from Keenum before the end of his two-year deal."

I agree with Mike Klis, 9News Broncos Insider here:

Mike Klis
✔
@MikeKlis

That $7 million full guarantee in 2019 means this is ironclad 2-year deal for Case Keenum. Can't imagine Broncos making solid, 2-year investment in Keenum and then drafting a QB with No. 5 overall pick. That No. 5 pick would have to sit 2 years. But ... you never know. #9sports

Cutting him in 2019 would mean a big cap hit! No way that happens. Of course they COULD sit him on the bench. But, man is that a hell of a lot to pay a guy to hold a clip-board!

Exactly, it's a lot of money to pay a guy to hold a clipboard when his career suggests that more often than not he should be holding a clipboard. Which goes to my overarching point: by signing him and not drafting a QB (and I hope we're smart enough to draft a QB) we are just kicking the can down the road.