Thread: Signing Keenum Opens the Draft Vault Doors

Originally Posted by Jaded

He’d play slot receivers, they could actually really use him.

Too many Bama DB busts, not sure I’d want to take that chance.

He and Allen are the two guys of all the discussed possibilities @5 that would piss me off. I'm sure Minkah is a fantastic player and a great guy but all I would be thinking on draft night is "we had one of the best CBs on the planet AND the 5th overall pick, now we have a rookie CB........"

Originally Posted by chazoe60

He and Allen are the two guys of all the discussed possibilities @5 that would piss me off. I'm sure Minkah is a fantastic player and a great guy but all I would be thinking on draft night is "we had one of the best CBs on the planet AND the 5th overall pick, now we have a rookie CB........"

Could’ve kept Talib and not tendered the restricted free agents, far as I’m concerned, they sure as hell didn’t get rid of Talibing because it makes them a better team.

McGovern, Corey Nelson, Deiontrez Mount and Talibing is a better team than Paradis, Davis, Barrett and Brock. IMO.

I really wish they still had Talib. It's just sinking in.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

I really wish they still had Talib. It's just sinking in.

we stopped talibing, hawg. . .

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

I really wish they still had Talib. It's just sinking in.

The bright side is that if you consistently let older players go a year early as opposed to a year too late you win out in the long term. If we can do this when a player has at least one more solid season left, then we will be able to consistently acquire capital that we would otherwise not have. From a pure transaction standpoint this is the stronger route to take. Unfortunately, we might have had different motives than just that, as Talib and VJ seem destined to be opponents. Still, with a situation as difficult as that one, it makes the pick we got that much more important.

Let's just hope that the acquiring of the picks will be the norm, and not the stormy dramas surrounding it.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

Good. The thought of using the 5th pick in the draft to replace one of the best CBs on the planet that we just traded will piss me off. By trading Talib Elway was saying our young CBs and some cheaper depth signings are all we need so to then draft a CB so high would be a really bad mistake.

It'd be like digging a hole in your backyard because you need the dirt to fill in another hole in your backyard.

Whoa. Just whoa.

Man, I love Talib. I'm all in on Talib and Peters in LA - 'Engle-wood up to no good'!

BUT...Talib will turn 33 10 days after next year's Super Bowl. He's 32 at a position that just beats the hell out of even the best athletes. He's the type of guy who's great on a winning team. The attitude is OK on that winning team. It's not OK on a losing team. In fact, I think it has very little to do with the coach, good or bad, and keep in mind I don't like Joseph right now. It's more about Talib. To get a fifth-round pick out of him is a good thing.

There's a strong chance for a negative opportunity cost with this trade. But, and this is where I wonder about Hawg's involvement in this conversation, if we're beginning to look at this in a baseball sense and how to get win shares out of each position, a 21-year-old Minkah Fitzpatrick, under contract for four years before his contract hits the point that it equals the payout of Talib's, might be the better choice.

Talib's AV, according to PFF, was 9 in 2017. The 8th best cornerback in the league according to that metric. You're essentially paying $1.3 million for each point of approximate value.

The last cornerback taken at 5 was Jalen Ramsey. He had an AV of 8 as a rookie. I'm not saying Fitzpatrick IS Ramsey, who is going to be a perennial all-pro like Ramsey. But, if he can get 6 AV with a cap hit of $4 million, you're picking up win value and adding a fifth round pick.

I'm not saying it's fool-proof, obviously, just that we should think about that as we digest the Talib move.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Whoa. Just whoa.

Man, I love Talib. I'm all in on Talib and Peters in LA - 'Engle-wood up to no good'!

BUT...Talib will turn 33 10 days after next year's Super Bowl. He's 32 at a position that just beats the hell out of even the best athletes. He's the type of guy who's great on a winning team. The attitude is OK on that winning team. It's not OK on a losing team. In fact, I think it has very little to do with the coach, good or bad, and keep in mind I don't like Joseph right now. It's more about Talib. To get a fifth-round pick out of him is a good thing.

There's a strong chance for a negative opportunity cost with this trade. But, and this is where I wonder about Hawg's involvement in this conversation, if we're beginning to look at this in a baseball sense and how to get win shares out of each position, a 21-year-old Minkah Fitzpatrick, under contract for four years before his contract hits the point that it equals the payout of Talib's, might be the better choice.

Talib's AV, according to PFF, was 9 in 2017. The 8th best cornerback in the league according to that metric. You're essentially paying $1.3 million for each point of approximate value.

The last cornerback taken at 5 was Jalen Ramsey. He had an AV of 8 as a rookie. I'm not saying Fitzpatrick IS Ramsey, who is going to be a perennial all-pro like Ramsey. But, if he can get 6 AV with a cap hit of $4 million, you're picking up win value and adding a fifth round pick.

I'm not saying it's fool-proof, obviously, just that we should think about that as we digest the Talib move.

So save money, get younger and only a slight drop off in production? And all it would cost us is the 5th pick in the draft? Neat.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

Jackson just stated that Taylor is the qb for the browns in 2018. There will be no competition

More interesting fodder for the rest of the league. They can either take a QB at #1 meaning that they could take Sam Darnold, who is very young but potentially very good, or Josh Allen, who has the cannon arm, but needs development, etc. They would not need to start a rookie.

Or they could take Barkley at #1 and get Allen, Mayfield (who they reportedly like) or whichever other QB fell to #4. They probably have their pick of 2 of the top 4 QBs and possibly three, since the Giants might take Chubb #2 overall.

Solidify the OL and draft Sony Michel and Kyle Lauletta that's my draft hopes right now.

Trade and get a combo of McGlinchey and Hernandez or just draft Nelson, either way is fine with me, then draft Sony and Lauletta. That would be a killer draft.

It seems like Elway truly wanted Keenum to be our starting QB. So that leads me to believe he wants to build around him rather than draft a QBOTF.

Originally Posted by aberdien

It seems like Elway truly wanted Keenum to be our starting QB. So that leads me to believe he wants to build around him rather than draft a QBOTF.

Maybe. But if that's the case, why only a 2 year deal?

Incase he is wrong.

The thing about missing on QBs in the first round is that they don't help your team at all...

If you miss on a positional player in the 1st round - they might be able to contribute on special teams, or as a backup in some capacity... But a 1st round QB who isn't ready just kills you in the opportunity cost of missing out on another 1st round talent, and then doesn't contribute in any way. I think Elway still wants to give Lynch one more year to develop, and doesn't want to gamble on another QB in the first round...

I think it's possible they could fall in love with a QBOTF if they feel like it's a can't-miss, but I believe his bias is to not take another 1st round QB if he can avoid it.

Bad lineman get traded for peanuts, just like QB's do.

Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27

But the future pro bowl assumption isn't necessarily being assigned to this group. They are intriguing in some aspects, sure. The toast of the town is different based on who you are talking to. All 4 are loved by some and hated by some. I really don't remember seeing so many opinions all over the place on a group. ANY of the 4 can go first. Aside from Darnolds INTs, he throws a damn pretty ball and can drop it anywhere. Rosen has skills, but he scares people off. Mayfield is a short system punk with no self control. Allen can't complete60% in a terrible league. OR they could all be in the Hall. So the premise that we should be as confident in these QBs as we are in the Guard is flawed. Nobody is betting against this kid. A bunch say he is best since Faneca. IF the apple of Elway's eye is at 5...get him. But don't settle and reach when as sure of a thing as you can get is waiting for you at a position that can greatly benefit your team.

That is what worries me as well. There is just ZERO consensus about which QBs are the best, everybody disagrees. Some insist that none of them are worth a top 5 pick, and that Cleveland and the Giants should take Chubb and Barkley and then take a QB later.

Others think Darnold has this amazing upside, but some disagree, while some have Allen the #1 overall pick, and other say he's a late first rounder.

I've never seen such disagreement, and that can't be a good thing, because some are certain to be wrong. What if it's the people who love some QB?

What if NONE of them are really any good? I've heard good things about Rosen, but he shouldn't be there at #5 if all the good things said about him are to be believed. Denver would probably have to trade up to #3 to have any chance of getting him, and that would cost a lot.

As in the Broncos 1st and 2nd round pick, at a minimum.

#3 = 2200 points
#5 = 1700 points
2200 - 1700 = 500 points, which is exactly the value of Pick #40, the Broncos pick in the 2nd round.

They would be giving up essentially their entire draft to get a QB and not strengthening their team at all.

They have too many damn holes to fill to do that. They need about 7 or 8 new impact players before they could hope to win another SB. And the draft is really the only way to get them at an affordable price.

Now they have Keenum they need to concentrate on getting players around him for a season. If they want to take a QB in the second round and try and develop him, fine.

To trade up is even worse than drafting a QB at #5 now they have Keenum.