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Thread: Signing Keenum Opens the Draft Vault Doors

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    He's a backup making starter money. The situation called for one of two things: Cousins or getting a round one QB and letting him play. If you want (read, Elway) wanted to be a contender, we were better off keeping the defense intact and going to old Steelers/Jets way of life with a young Big Ben, Sanchez (remember when he looked promising,) Flacco, et al.

    This, this was shit.


    What makes you think we will not go that route and get us our big ben, our carson wentz? I have a big big big big hunch that Rosen is our guy and we are going to move up for him!

    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    No, that's not my logic. My point was that one can't say 'we're going to get the third best QB' when we don't know which one that is, or which one we want. I also added that sometimes you have to trade up and get your guy. I know that's not attractive and hurts short term, but welcome to the NFL. I'm sure the Rams and Eagles are happy with what they did.

    So, with all due respect my friend, mind what I actually said.

    With regards to backup QB's, why am I anchored with only Kelly or Lynch in this scenario? How much do you think Brocks going to get? Or McGown?

    F- post.


    Maybe we cannot trade up. Then what?
    Maybe buffalo gives us an offer we cannot refuse, then what?
    Maybe the Giants or Colts want 1sts this year next and 2nd and 3rd this year to move up 2 spots. F that!

    Now what?.....

    'we're going to get the third best QB' when we don't know which one that is, or which one we want. - so by your quote, if rosen is gone and mayfield and allen too, what do we do? Do we reach and SETTLE for a Darnold? A guy we do not even like that much? Or do we just say F it and draft Lamar Jackson at 5?

    You are backing yourself into a corner here, just like the broncos would have done had they not signed this guy.



    Id also like to know what you think if we do draft Rosen, and he gets hurt, goes on IR and we are in the playoff hunt or even leading the charge? Would you like to see Lynch come in and piss the rest down the drain?

    F post for Fantastic
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

  2. #32

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    I hope we get Rosen. I didn't read the rest of what you said because you've failed me with Russian women.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  3. #33
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    The Keenum signing opens up some versatility. If one of the QB's we really like is available at 5, then I think/hope we grab him there. If not, then we can go with BPA or we can look at trading back. I'm pretty excited at the names that could be available at 5. Even assuming Barkley and Chubb are gone, there is still Edmunds, Nelson, Fitzpatrick, Ward, Smith...

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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    I hope we get Rosen. I didn't read the rest of what you said because you've failed me with Russian women.
    It is not a failure. It is just harder to find a russian girl who wants to eat with you and not eat you!
    You have exactly 3 more days to get down here for St. Pattys. I am going out with 4 russian girls (one is czech but she counts cuz theyre all crazy)
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    It is not a failure. It is just harder to find a russian girl who wants to eat with you and not eat you!
    You have exactly 3 more days to get down here for St. Pattys. I am going out with 4 russian girls (one is czech but she counts cuz theyre all crazy)
    I would die of alcohol poisoning. I have a drink once or twice a month these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    I would die of alcohol poisoning. I have a drink once or twice a month these days.

    Hmmmm.....
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    It is not a failure. It is just harder to find a russian girl who wants to eat with you and not eat you!
    You have exactly 3 more days to get down here for St. Pattys. I am going out with 4 russian girls (one is czech but she counts cuz theyre all crazy)
    Where you at?

  9. #38

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    Well, now we see another reason why Elway wasn't all in on Cousins: his contract with the Vikings, according to Adam Schefter: 3 years fully guaranteed, total $84 million, $28m per year making him the highest paid QB in NFL history, and the first player in NFL history to get a fully guaranteed contract. And his contract is short enough the he will be back in FA in 2021 at the age of 33 years old and be in line for ANOTHER big pay-day.

    And the Vikings can't even franchise him because he has already been franchised twice and he would have a grievance against the team/league if anybody tried (as he threatened to do with the Redskins if they tried to "get something out of Cousins on his way out the door." )

    They will be forced to negotiate with Cousins and give him whatever the market will bear at that point. No chance for a "team friendly deal" unless he decides to give them a break because he loves MN and wants to stay.

    So, this is a high risk, uncertain reward deal.

    That is the most player friendly deal in NFL history. And it doesn't even make the Vikings the odds on favorite to win the NFC! There are still the Eagles who not only have a better overall team than the Vikings, they have a better QB in Carson Wentz, a potential league MVP for most of 2017.

    For all we know from their playoff history, Nick Foles is a better playoff QB than Cousins. Then there are the Falcons with Ryan who were recently in the SB, the up and coming Rams with Goff who will only get better, and now they have landed both Peters and Aqib Talib to dramatically strengthen their secondary, the Panthers who were 15-1 a couple of years ago and still have former NFL MVP Cam Newton, the Packers who still have HOF QB Aaron Rogers, and the 49ers who are vastly improved now they have Garapolo.

    I feel pretty relaxed about the fact the Broncos didn't sign Cousins. I would have been OK with it, but nobody should lose any sleep over getting Case Keenum rather than Cousins, now that we see what his deal was!
    Last edited by Cugel; 03-13-2018 at 05:39 PM.

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  11. #39

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    I'll agree that Wentz is better but in no way is Foles better.

    *Edit* Missed where you said Foles may be a better PLAYOFF QB. I may give you that one for now.
    Last edited by Rick; 03-13-2018 at 05:50 PM.

  12. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomjonesrocks View Post
    Was hoping for Cousins, but with Keenum's ties to Kubiak this seemed more likely. Hope he isn't a 1-year wonder, but obviously the Vikings didn't have confidence in him which isn't a great sign.

    Also seems to show that Denver has fallen as a desire-able destination - which is more than fair considering the grease fire of last season and our current coaching staff.
    And the Redskins didn't value Kirk Cousins either and were totally unwilling to commit to him, and now they have Alex Smith, which is something of a booby prize compared to them having Kirk Cousins under contract for 4 more years at around $19m a year, which he stated publicly he would have signed for last year if they didn't try and dick him over with another franchise tag (thinking that he would never sign it and that they would have all the negotiating leverage over him).

    Sometimes teams get locked into an opinion about a guy and are too stubborn to admit they are just stupid. There's no proof the Vikings are right to value Cousins at $28m a year, fully guaranteed, over Keenum at around $20m a year, not fully guaranteed.

    In fact, there's a good chance that they are wrong, since we've never even seen Cousins win a playoff game (to be fair he's only played in one in 2015) whereas Keenum took the Vikings to the NFC Championship. All this stuff is up in the air and we won't really know whether it was a good idea for the Vikings to be all-in on Cousins at that price until a couple years have passed.

    But, the odds favor the Vikings not making the SB in an NFC packed with talented up and coming teams over the next 3 years. Then what? They are just assuming that adding Cousins at that price will put them over the top. But, they are still underdogs in the NFC right now behind the Eagles, and possibly the Rams, and maybe even the Packers and Saints (all of whom have better QBs).

  13. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I'll agree that Wentz is better but in no way is Foles better.

    *Edit* Missed where you said Foles may be a better PLAYOFF QB. I may give you that one for now.
    We're going off a short sample size of course, but Foles IS SB MVP and Cousins has never won a playoff game. So, who the hell knows? Obviously you are right that Cousins career has been better than Foles and nobody really wants Foles over Cousins, but at what price?

    Is Cousins about $8 or $9 million a year better than Foles? Really?

  14. #42

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    I'd say watch out for the Rams next year.

    Not only do they have Goff who is still learning to be better, Wade Phillips has a proven history as a DC that if you give him 2 seasons, plus a couple of key defensive stars he can craft a great, not just good defense. The Rams are now on the verge of becoming a monster defense with a lot of good players and a seriously top rate secondary led by Marcus Peters and Aqib Talib. They are officially the best CB duo in the league right now, obviously better than the Broncos.

    Just as Wade Phillips is a better DC than Joe Woods. So, is the Vikings deal for Cousins really going to be worth it? We'll see. But, it's certainly very risky.

    Aqib Talib excited to join Marcus Peters, L.A. Rams

    By Nick Shook NFL.com
    Published: March 10, 2018 at 05:59 p.m.
    Updated: March 11, 2018 at 05:06 p.m.

    Once trades become official Wednesday, Aqib Talib will be off to the West Coast to begin a new chapter in his career with the Los Angeles Rams.

    He'll be joining a secondary that features another newcomer in cornerback Marcus Peters (also acquired via trade) and one of the league's better safeties in Lamarcus Joyner, who received the franchise tag. It shouldn't surprise anyone that Talib is excited for what's next.

    "What better place to do it than L.A., man," Talib told NFL Network's James Palmer on Saturday. "With that market. With (defensive coordinator) Wade Phillips. With a young energetic corner on the other side, man, to bring back that youth to me. A great quarterback and Todd Gurley, it's just a great situation in my opinion."

    A great situation, no doubt. Talib joins a team that ranked in the top half against the pass and owned the league's best scoring offense (29.9 points per game). A productive offense always makes a defender's life a little easier, but what's really enticing for the veteran is playing opposite Peters, a young, hungry, up-and-coming corner with an outspoken mean streak similar to Talib's.
    Last edited by Cugel; 03-13-2018 at 06:00 PM.

  15. #43
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    Wow feel free to continue emo rants. Youre all in on a guy who has multiple warts. Youre willing to gloss those to fit your agenda but we cant use the same standard to prop the guy who just had a fantastic season and got to the nfc championship game? The guy who had the best qbr under pressure in the league last year? That stat speaks volumes. He was top 10 of all qb in the league since 2009 in that category. That is moxy and by no means a fluke.

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  17. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsteve01 View Post
    Wow feel free to continue emo rants. Youre all in on a guy who has multiple warts. Youre willing to gloss those to fit your agenda but we cant use the same standard to prop the guy who just had a fantastic season and got to the nfc championship game? The guy who had the best qbr under pressure in the league last year? That stat speaks volumes. He was top 10 of all qb in the league since 2009 in that category. That is moxy and by no means a fluke.
    The problem is that one wart is self-correcting and the over is over-exaggerated. In the other scenario, it's nothing but warts. Everyone wants to blow CK for last year but who cares about the fact that he was utter trash in the playoffs? He did well under pressure. How's he done in his entire career? Don't fall in love with a player over one year, especially when that golden year is that of a game manager.

    Ugh. Moxy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  18. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    The problem is that one wart is self-correcting and the over is over-exaggerated. In the other scenario, it's nothing but warts. Everyone wants to blow CK for last year but who cares about the fact that he was utter trash in the playoffs? He did well under pressure. How's he done in his entire career? Don't fall in love with a player over one year, especially when that golden year is that of a game manager.

    Ugh. Moxy.
    I'd say Keenum at $20m a year is a better deal than Cousins at $28m a year on a 3-year fully guaranteed contract, when you can't even franchise him at the end of it. And would it be better than Baker Mayfield or Josh Rosen, who might both totally flame out for all we know.

    Failure rate for 1st round elite QB prospects are about 50% after all. So, it's a coin flip whether the QB the Broncos could draft would be the next Carson Wentz or the next Paxton Lynch.

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