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Thread: Here's what it would cost the Broncos to sign Kirk Cousins

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    In 5 years Cousins will be 36 years old. He will not be getting a huge new market setting contract extension at 36.
    35, or 34, depending on when the extension is done, and if he's a QB worth that money now and doesn't suffer an injury, he will get a big extension, even if it's only a 3-4 year big deal.

    However, if your case is that he's washed up at 35, then it's even worse, because then we will be looking for another QB in the free agent market when they are super expensive.

    Bottom line, it's silly to make a case for spending big money now, that it will prevent needing to resign a rookie to even bigger money in five years, after both the rookie and cousins contracts will be up.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    Re: Von Miller

    Why would he have signed for less money earlier? I'm sure Von's agent was telling Von to let Justin Houston sign his deal, then we ask for more than him because you're better.
    Exactly.

    It's the standard thing people say, "Elway (replace with whoever) screwed up. They could have gotten Von (replace with whoever) if they signed him earlier." That precludes the fact that Von and his agent know he's considered the best or second best defensive player in the league and somehow would have been lulled into a 20 or 35% discount or something by signing the extension a year early. Look at some of the recent big name extensions, like Stafford, signed with a year left, they don't come with major discounts.

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    i don't believe that von would have taken a discount-- superstars typically don't. . . that doesn't mean it's an ineffective strategy, though-- both derek wolfe and chris harris signed significantly below market extensions to stay here. . . it's not at all uncommon for a guy to be willing to take a bit less in exchange for the security that comes with signing a deal a year or two sooner, as that takes the injury risk away from the athlete. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    i don't believe that von would have taken a discount-- superstars typically don't. . . that doesn't mean it's an ineffective strategy, though-- both derek wolfe and chris harris signed significantly below market extensions to stay here. . . it's not at all uncommon for a guy to be willing to take a bit less in exchange for the security that comes with signing a deal a year or two sooner, as that takes the injury risk away from the athlete. . .
    I don't think the Broncos have typically done more than a year early over the years, but absolutely, there is often some discount given for that security, but the deeper discounts are typically the Wolfe/Harris type players that don't have the absolute confidence of what their FA market is as well. Von, Stafford, etc. are not the type of guys that doubt their worth. They know that the longer they wait, and others sign deals, the bigger their contracts are. So, while they would want the financial security against injury, they aren't going to sign so far below market that, Von for instance, would have had a $15 million cap number vs. $21 million.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    Re: Von Miller

    Why would he have signed for less money earlier? I'm sure Von's agent was telling Von to let Justin Houston sign his deal, then we ask for more than him because you're better.
    Von stated publicly since then that he would have signed a year earlier. A year earlier his price tag was around $16m a year. He, like every player wants security and guaranteed money. If he blew out his knee like Teddy Bridgewater, right before entering FA, then his price would plummet.

    It was a terrible risk that Kirk Cousins ran in taking the franchise contract for 2 years in a row. Normally players aren't willing to take that risk.

    Mark Schelerth spent about 10 minutes talking about this on 104.3 the Fan, this AM. The only way for teams to successfully navigate the salary cap is to identify players they want to keep in FA and lock them up 1 year early, BEFORE they hit FA and maximize their market value.

    And players will normally take such deals because:

    1. They protect themselves against a declining market value due to injury or other unforeseen circumstances.

    2. They get their money a year early, which means they can invest and spend it a year earlier. You can make a lot of money just from investing a $10m plus signing bonus for 1 year and it's nice to have more money now, rather than later.

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  8. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    Von stated publicly since then that he would have signed a year earlier. A year earlier his price tag was around $16m a year. He, like every player wants security and guaranteed money. If he blew out his knee like Teddy Bridgewater, right before entering FA, then his price would plummet.

    It was a terrible risk that Kirk Cousins ran in taking the franchise contract for 2 years in a row. Normally players aren't willing to take that risk.

    Mark Schelerth spent about 10 minutes talking about this on 104.3 the Fan, this AM. The only way for teams to successfully navigate the salary cap is to identify players they want to keep in FA and lock them up 1 year early, BEFORE they hit FA and maximize their market value.

    And players will normally take such deals because:

    1. They protect themselves against a declining market value due to injury or other unforeseen circumstances.

    2. They get their money a year early, which means they can invest and spend it a year earlier. You can make a lot of money just from investing a $10m plus signing bonus for 1 year and it's nice to have more money now, rather than later.
    Yup, that's been something we've refused to do even before Elway. Back when Pat was still involved, he used to be a firm believer in you signed a contract, you play it out and we'll negotiate when your contract is up.

    That's not the smartest way to handle it and we've lost guys like Malik Jackson because of it and are currently paying a lot for Von thanks to that mindset.

  9. #82

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    Mark Schlereth: "These events just show how important the management of your cap is, and how important it is to target guys and pay them early as opposed to paying them oodles of money later. And that is exactly why you need to do. Now you're competing with teams that have a lot more room from a cap standpoint. . . . And I say over and over again, that you can't think of it as setting the market. You have to think about it as "you're beating the market to it, and eventually someone is going to come in and trump that, and there's going to be Aaron Rogers and Matt Ryan comes in behind that [and gets even more $] and you're paying what the market says QBs are worth these days."

  10. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Yup, that's been something we've refused to do even before Elway. Back when Pat was still involved, he used to be a firm believer in you signed a contract, you play it out and we'll negotiate when your contract is up.

    That's not the smartest way to handle it and we've lost guys like Malik Jackson because of it and are currently paying a lot for Von thanks to that mindset.
    They lost Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan too. They gave a low round tender on CJ Anderson's contract, only to suddenly realize "whoa! We totally misjudged what the market would be for him! The Dolphins are offering him $4m a year, and now we have to match if we want to keep him!"

    They lost Brock Osweiler too, although that turned out to be a lucky break. But, if Osweiler had turned out to be a franchise QB in Texas the way both they and the Broncos thought he would, letting him hit FA and let the market dictate what his contract would be worth would have turned out to be a total disaster! We'd be potentially watching the Texans gloat at how stupid Elway was for letting his franchise QB get away and watching Osweiler lead them to the AFC Championship or something.

    Well, fortunately that didn't happen, but it wasn't due to some brilliance on Elway's part, because he was willing to offer Osweiler $16m a year, just not $18m. Had they locked him up a year earlier they would have had him under contract for 2016 in Denver.

    Elway gets zero credit for screwing that up royally, and winding having to desperately draft Paxton Lynch to be Brock's replacement, and not only using their first round pick to do it, they also gave up a 3rd rounder to move up in the draft to get ahead of Dallas and take Lynch.

    So, everything stemmed from having to desperately find a QB because your "plan" for the post-Manning era just blew up in your face due to lack of foresight. Instead of drafting Russell Wilson ("Brock is tall!") they draft Osweiler, only to have him walk out the door because they failed to make sure he was under contract for when Peyton retired.

    In short, they always keep waiting too long and let the market dictate events rather than taking control and managing their cap properly.

    Now they don't have the cap room they need for Kirk Cousins (possibly) because Von Miller and DT and Sanders, and CJ Anderson, and a bunch of other players got deals at the top of the market. Now they have to release Aqib because they can't pay him and sign a veteran FA QB (apparently that's part of the reason they are moving on from him).

    As Schlereth argues: "this is all due to your mismanaging your cap, and not identifying and grooming [young] players."
    Last edited by Cugel; 02-09-2018 at 01:22 PM.

  11. #84

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    So much speculation in this thread.

    Lets assume they did sign von a year earlier, do we all honestly believe his deal would be for some substantial amount less?

    Maybe 2 to 3 mil less a year? Is that going to give this team what it needs to sign captain gonna get overpayed?

    Nope, doesnt fix it, there still is only so much cap, and you have to decide where you want to spend it, star here or star there, over pay here or there.

    Vons contract is huge becuase he makes a difference, thats the cost of those kind of players, 1 year early wasnt going to change that.

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    The hard cap in the NFL sucks. Are you all seeing why yet? Hint: There is really so such thing as building for "the future." In a hard cap league, it is a myth.

    Every year is its own season. Really no such thing as "developing talent" etc.

    Take a look at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncoknight30 View Post
    The hard cap in the NFL sucks. Are you all seeing why yet? Hint: There is really so such thing as building for "the future." In a hard cap league, it is a myth.

    Every year is its own season. Really no such thing as "developing talent" etc.

    Take a look at it.
    at least you can release guys and the rest of the contract is void in the NFL, you release a guy in NHL the contract is still on the books forever. Hard caps suck, I think if an owner wants to spend money on his business he should be able to spend whatever he wants.


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    Quote Originally Posted by weazel View Post
    at least you can release guys and the rest of the contract is void in the NFL, you release a guy in NHL the contract is still on the books forever. Hard caps suck, I think if an owner wants to spend money on his business he should be able to spend whatever he wants.
    Personally I want the system to motivate players to either stay with the team that drafted him, or developed him. For example, if a player has played 7 consecutive seasons with certain team his salary starting from his 8th season does not count against a cap. Some kind of tweak to it.

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    The hard cap stops you from watching Dallas field Aaron Rodgers, Antonio Brown, David Johnson, Von Miller, Aaron Donald, Patrick Peterson, Kuechly, Julio Jones, Earl Thomas, Gronk, etc. all on one team.

    Although, to your point, baseball, which doesn't have a hard cap, has more parity than the NFL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    The hard cap stops you from watching Dallas field Aaron Rodgers, Antonio Brown, David Johnson, Von Miller, Aaron Donald, Patrick Peterson, Kuechly, Julio Jones, Earl Thomas, Gronk, etc. all on one team.

    Although, to your point, baseball, which doesn't have a hard cap, has more parity than the NFL.
    You are talking about NO CAP. I am referring to a system that motivates players to stay with the team that drafted him or developed him. Which is different than no cap. The system right now makes the NFL draft pretty pointless.

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    The draft is far from pointless. We're not really disagreeing with one another. Every single post of yours comes off as confrontational. Good god, your blood pressure must be awful. Laugh a little.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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