Thread: Here's what it would cost the Broncos to sign Kirk Cousins

The lack of a hard cap is baseball, I absolutely DO NOT want that.

NFL cap system is just fine.

The draft is far from pointless, the draft is how a good scouting team can afford to put together a great team.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

Personally I want the system to motivate players to either stay with the team that drafted him, or developed him. For example, if a player has played 7 consecutive seasons with certain team his salary starting from his 8th season does not count against a cap. Some kind of tweak to it.

The NBA has a system in place for this.

The draft isn't pointless but the cap does kind of penalise teams that draft well

Originally Posted by Tned

Doable, but Elway will have to jettison talent to do it and mortgage the future. It's a huge gamble.

I'm still advocating a complete rebuild offensively. Makes no sense to spend that kind of money on Cousins. He is not an elite QB. Just use draft capital and get the rookie QB they like best and begin the rebuilding around him.

Originally Posted by Traveler

I'm still advocating a complete rebuild offensively. Makes no sense to spend that kind of money on Cousins. He is not an elite QB. Just use draft capital and get the rookie QB they like best and begin the rebuilding around him.

Preach, Brother!

Originally Posted by weazel

The NBA has a system in place for this.

The draft isn't pointless but the cap does kind of penalise teams that draft well

Yeah, its frustrating. If the Broncos draft and or develop players, they would be lucky to keep them 4 or 5 years later. Especially, if those players are good. That is the reality and there is plenty of evidence of that happening.

Now, the Broncos defense from 2015 will virtually all be gone. One of them due to retirement and the rest because of the hard cap reality.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

Yeah, its frustrating. If the Broncos draft and or develop players, they would be lucky to keep them 4 or 5 years later. Especially, if those players are good. That is the reality and there is plenty of evidence of that happening.

Now, the Broncos defense from 2015 will virtually all be gone. One of them due to retirement and the rest because of the hard cap reality.

This is one of the reasons why system is so important though and the reasons why teams like the patriots can stay dominant for so long. Being able to plug unknowns in and get good production out of them is critical.

Let's just say I don't have the highest confidence in VJ as a good system guy.

Originally Posted by wayninja

This is one of the reasons why system is so important though and the reasons why teams like the patriots can stay dominant for so long. Being able to plug unknowns in and get good production out of them is critical.

Let's just say I don't have the highest confidence in VJ as a good system guy.

They are the only real exception due to one basic reason. Tom Brady is the 17th highest paid QB. They get the best production from the most crucial poaition for minimal price. Brock Osweiler gets more than him.

A few years ago, he decided he would take that.....pay cut. In 2014, they finally won it after 10 years. Ironically they had tbeir best defensive season in a few years.

In 2016 they won it again and they were number 1 in defense as far as PPG. This year, as bad as people think their defense was, they actually finished 5th, giving up 18.5, which was what the Broncos defense gave up in 2015.

Yeah, they are able to plug in key guys, all while having that top PRODUCTION....for middle of the road price.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

They are the only real exception due to one basic reason. Tom Brady is the 17th highest paid QB. They get the best production from the most crucial poaition for minimal price. Brock Osweiler gets more than him.

A few years ago, he decided he would take that.....pay cut. In 2014, they finally won it after 10 years. Ironically they had tbeir best defensive season in a few years.

In 2016 they won it again and they were number 1 in defense as far as PPG. This year, as bad as people think their defense was, they actually finished 5th, giving up 18.5, which was what the Broncos defense gave up in 2015.

Yeah, they are able to plug in key guys, all while having that top PRODUCTION....for middle of the road price.

I'm certainly not trying to downplay Tom Brady's skills, but they got really good production out of Jimmy G too. That team is more than the sum of its parts.

How many guys have we seen come out of new england putting up really good numbers only to go somewhere else and fall off hard?

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

Yeah, its frustrating. If the Broncos draft and or develop players, they would be lucky to keep them 4 or 5 years later. Especially, if those players are good. That is the reality and there is plenty of evidence of that happening.

Now, the Broncos defense from 2015 will virtually all be gone. One of them due to retirement and the rest because of the hard cap reality.

No, not lucky. Some consistently strong teams have consistently strong rosters. The trick is to let some of them go and some of them stay. And sometimes you have to draft well consecutively. So what? The Chargers were great drafters for a long time. The Bengals drafted very well for five or so straight years, etc. You're essentially lamenting the fact that you can't draft well and keep a team together forever. No one wants the 70's again. And don't forget that the FA can help keep a team strong, too. The Patriots needed guys like Gilmore, Revis, etc from time to time. The Broncos BUILT a great defense in FA. So we can't really say it's a bummer that guys are leaving for cap reasons, either. That's how Ware got here. That's how we got Ward and Talib. Don't forget that Talib replaced another FA CB in Cromartie, too. We signed PFM in FA. And Welker. And ES.

There's no perfect system.

Originally Posted by wayninja

I'm certainly not trying to downplay Tom Brady's skills, but they got really good production out of Jimmy G too. That team is more than the sum of its parts.

How many guys have we seen come out of new england putting up really good numbers only to go somewhere else and fall off hard?

True, but I tend to see SEVERAL key defensive players, being equal in price to ONE high priced QB. I still firmly believe defense is the key, and even more important to an championship than one great QB. How often have we seen great QBs during great statistical seasons come up short? Dates back to Air Coryel days with Fouts when they always had average defenses. Those Marino teams also. Hell, in recent years Drew Brees in his best statistical seasons could not even make the play offs with his historically bad defenses.

We have never actually seen a QB lead a team to a Lombadri all by himself. However, we have seen defenses carry teams with bad QBs. Denver in 50 was a real prime example of that.

I think Bradys contract allowed the Pats to solidify a rather less than stellar defense between those years from 2004 to 2014.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

No, not lucky. Some consistently strong teams have consistently strong rosters. The trick is to let some of them go and some of them stay. And sometimes you have to draft well consecutively. So what? The Chargers were great drafters for a long time. The Bengals drafted very well for five or so straight years, etc. You're essentially lamenting the fact that you can't draft well and keep a team together forever. No one wants the 70's again. And don't forget that the FA can help keep a team strong, too. The Patriots needed guys like Gilmore, Revis, etc from time to time. The Broncos BUILT a great defense in FA. So we can't really say it's a bummer that guys are leaving for cap reasons, either. That's how Ware got here. That's how we got Ward and Talib. Don't forget that Talib replaced another FA CB in Cromartie, too. We signed PFM in FA. And Welker. And ES.

There's no perfect system.

Let’s not forget the best drafting team in the last decade... Pittsburgh. Good lord, with the exception of DB, those guys draft all stars in every damned round it seems like. All of their stars were drafted. Big Ben, Brown, Bell, Smith-Schuster, Villanueva, Pouncey, Dicastro, Hayward, Watt, Bryant, Shazier, etc, etc. All drafted. There’s a reason they are one of the top teams in the AFC and it has nothing to do with their mouth breathing coach (I think Tomlin is as dumb as a box of rocks and is the most overrated HC in the league). I think the Steelers win in spite of him.

Originally Posted by weazel

at least you can release guys and the rest of the contract is void in the NFL, you release a guy in NHL the contract is still on the books forever. Hard caps suck, I think if an owner wants to spend money on his business he should be able to spend whatever he wants.

hard cap is the only way to go. . . look at the NBA's soft cap-- it lets golden state have like half the stars in the league. . . it's completely worthless, it does nothing to create parity. . . it's so bendable, they may as well not even have a cap. . . the NFL is far from perfect, but it's still the best sport, and that's not by accident. . . viva la hard cap! the only fanbases complaining about it are those whose teams don't draft well, which would obviously include us. . . that doesn't mean i would ever want the league to get rid of the cap, though-- i just want the damn broncos to draft better. . . as kingsley pointed out, you guys would be just as bitter about us not having talent if jerry jones and dan snyder were just buying all of it. . . don't kid yourselves. . . like it or not, the donkeys don't have a deep pockets ownership group. . . y'all should be thankful for the hard cap, which at least allows us to keep guys like von miller, chris harris and derek wolfe. . .

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

Let’s not forget the best drafting team in the last decade... Pittsburgh. Good lord, with the exception of DB, those guys draft all stars in every damned round it seems like. All of their stars were drafted. Big Ben, Brown, Bell, Smith-Schuster, Villanueva, Pouncey, Dicastro, Hayward, Watt, Bryant, Shazier, etc, etc. All drafted. There’s a reason they are one of the top teams in the AFC and it has nothing to do with their mouth breathing coach (I think Tomlin is as dumb as a box of rocks and is the most overrated HC in the league). I think the Steelers win in spite of him.

it REALLY helps them that they run the same scheme, with the same coaches, every single season. . . year after year. . . they never have to jettison prospects who no longer fit the scheme because they changed coaches, and every year they know exactly what they're looking for-- makes it so much easier to find. . . just another reason why making such an asinine coaching hire really kills us. . .

Also keep in mind that the NBA example Fish gave is susceptible to abuse - the cap went up a chunk in the same year that Durant became a free agent, and the rule that they thought would let teams keep their guys let Durant bounce.

Granted, he took less money twice, but make no mistake, unintended consequences set this all up.

Teams that draft well watch their players leave all the time. Teams that don't draft well get leveraged up the nose by the few great players they do have, and sometimes they can't even keep them.

Drafting well is the only reliable way you can make a team. Nine out of ten times a team that goes the FA route implodes. Remember Philly's dream team? Or the Skins signing half the names in the FA class of the 2005-2006 season? The Broncos defense that Elway built was the exception, not the rule.