Thread: Here's what it would cost the Broncos to sign Kirk Cousins

Originally Posted by Northman

Nevermind, i went and looked it up. Most of the teams that have won have at least had a top 10 offense so that does play a huge part in the success of SB winners.

2017. Philadelphia- 3rd
2016. New England- 2nd
2015. Denver- 16th
2014. Mew Emgland- 11th
2013. Seattle- 18th
2012. Baltimore- 16th
2011. Green Bay- 3rd
2010. New Orleans- 6th
2009. Pittsburgh- 7th
2008. NY Giants- 7th
2007. Indianapolis Colts- 5th

Also, Cousins has proven he can carry a team at least in terms of stats. The last two years he has had NOTHING to work with on offense yet has put up numbers. If you are implying that Foles carried the Eagles to a SB title you would be very wrong. He played a part but he was surrounded by far better talent. I know you want to keep beating this drum about QB's getting paid and then doing nothing (which is false by the way) but then you would be advocating changing QB's every couple of years based on a short term success with the team. You are then saying that Denver should take a scrub QB (which we already have) and then PRAY that they can win a SB on a defense that isnt near as good or ever will be to the 2015 team, and then drop the QB and replace him with another scrub/young QB and again PRAy that the team can repeat its success. I dont know if you have been paying attention the last couple of years because in order to even compete for a SB you have to have a very good to great QB on the roster tp even make the playoffs. Backup and subpar QB's can only get you so far and generally they have success when the team around them is much better and can CARRY them.

Why hasn't Luck been to the SB? According to you, great QBs can carry average talent. I have never actually seen that. Which QB has ever done that? Are there examples? Maybe the Broncos teams of the 80s with Elway. Maybe.

Cousins has done very little to show he can overcome an average defense, which large contracts tend to do to defenses. Rodgers has not been back to a SB since 2010 when their defense is number two in PPG. Not even the best QBs in the NFL can do it. Cousins will be able to do it? No way.

With Von's salary I just don't see it happening, and if it did, laying out that kind of money on two players is difficult and the talent overall would be diluted. Going the 1st Rd route hoping to find a talented Starter is just as risky as bringing in Cousins.

If Von really wants Cousins here then he should consider renegotiating his contract.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

Why hasn't Luck been to the SB? According to you, great QBs can carry average talent. I have never actually seen that. Which QB has ever done that? Are there examples? Maybe the Broncos teams of the 80s with Elway. Maybe.

Cousins has done very little to show he can overcome an average defense, which large contracts tend to do to defenses. Rodgers has not been back to a SB since 2010 when their defense is number two in PPG. Not even the best QBs in the NFL can do it. Cousins will be able to do it? No way.

By the same token, how many great defenses win multiple SBs? The championship ratios are almost the same except that great defenses rarely last. At least with a high caliber Qb your chances are far greater.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

Why hasn't Luck been to the SB? According to you, great QBs can carry average talent. I have never actually seen that. Which QB has ever done that? Are there examples? Maybe the Broncos teams of the 80s with Elway. Maybe.

Cousins has done very little to show he can overcome an average defense, which large contracts tend to do to defenses. Rodgers has not been back to a SB since 2010 when their defense is number two in PPG. Not even the best QBs in the NFL can do it. Cousins will be able to do it? No way.

Elway and Peyton both did it. The Colts went from winning 10+ division championships to owning the #1 overall pick when Manning went down. Manning always made his teammates look better. Just think about how much better he made O-lines look.

Originally Posted by Northman

By the same token, how many great defenses win multiple SBs? The championship ratios are almost the same except that great defenses rarely last. At least with a high caliber Qb your chances are far greater.

How many teams, great defenses or otherwise, win multiple super bowls?

Originally Posted by Tned

How many teams, great defenses or otherwise, win multiple super bowls?

In the last decade we have the Patriots and the Ravens. The Seahawks have come close.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

Any Bronco fan wanting Elway to break the bank on Cousins is not seeing what QBs giant salaries are doing to teams. Even though this SB this year was not exactly about defense, it is still defense that is key. If one QB's salary does not allow a team to field a defense, then it won't matter who the QB is. Ask Brees and his ability to throw for over 5000 yards every year while they had historically bad defenses.

Top 5 defenses as far as PPG this year.

1. Minnesota
2. Jacksonville
3. LA Chargers
4. Philadelphia
5. New England

The top 10 highest paid QBs, none of them have won it AFTER getting paid. Interesting note. In 2010 when the Packers won it and last time Rodgers has even been to a SB, the Packers that year were number 2 in the NFL in defense in PPG. They gave up 15 PPG. For perspective, the Broncos in 2015 gave up 18.5 PPG.

The very next year in the Packers preparing for the massive Rodgers contract that would have to match Brees's $100 million dollar contract, the Packers defense went from #2 in 2010 to #32 in 2011. As I said, the Packers have not been back to the SB, even though they have had arguably the best QB in the NFL.

Since Eli Manning got paid, since Flacco got paid, etc, those teams have been very inconsistent.

This team does not have much to give and you all want them to pay all of that to Cousins who has proved beyond any doubt that he cannot carry a team by himself? BTW, no QB can. Brady is the 17th highest paid QB.

The NFL has skewed the rules so much the defences have no chance, welcome to the CFL 2.0

Originally Posted by Shazam!

With Von's salary I just don't see it happening, and if it did, laying out that kind of money on two players is difficult and the talent overall would be diluted. Going the 1st Rd route hoping to find a talented Starter is just as risky as bringing in Cousins.

The thing is a lot of our other big contract players a coming in lto the back end of contracts and extensions can be worked with them to lower cap hits. Miller is not an option for that though. Thomas and Wolfe are options for that though.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

In the last decade we have the Patriots and the Ravens. The Seahawks have come close.

Obviously, the Pats are a freak of nature and Seahawks would have won if they gave the ball to Beastie. It's just really rare. The goal needs to get there and win, which is VERY rare. Multiples are insanely rare.

I think the formula is even easier than that. It is to have a devastating pass rush and a Qb who can lead and sustain drives for points. Look at the chargers. Their team is garbage but that pass rush of theirs is deadly. Same with the Jaguars. Same when we wont it two years ago. Same with the seahawks when they did. Same for the giants against brady...

Have that devastating pass rush, have a good to great QB and have an Oline that can protect and run block and at least 1 good DB and LB or S. We have more than that and less. It is why I want cousins, so we can go Chubb at 5. I want that devastating pass rush again! I do not mind dumping Sanders and some of the others. If we can get Chubb and cousins, then we can work with our FA dollars to get us a G and T and complimentary pieces. We have a lot of draft picks and I am assuming we will be trading Talib and Shaq Barrett (or 2nd rd tender) which will add more firepower to young cheap contracts. If we can knock this draft out of the park we can be right back in the mix. We just need the QB and pass rushers. CHubb is the man!

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

In the last decade we have the Patriots and the Ravens. The Seahawks have come close.

I'll quibble with this a little. The Patriots won the first Super Bowl with defense, and after that became an innovative and top offensive team. The Ravens won in 2012 not because of defense (although Ray Lewis was the face), but because Joe Flacco played out of his mind for four games.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

I'll quibble with this a little. The Patriots won the first Super Bowl with defense, and after that became an innovative and top offensive team. The Ravens won in 2012 not because of defense (although Ray Lewis was the face), but because Joe Flacco played out of his mind for four games.

I think he was responding to my question about how many teams had won multiple times, period, defense or otherwise. My point was that it's extremely rare for teams to win multiple SBs, so the thought that the goal is to build a multi year championship team is rather lofty.

Also, following on you Patriots comment. I think we also have to really look at what we've witnessed in NE and whether any other team will replicate it. They've had a level of dominance, including SB wins/appearances, few other teams have matched in the free agent era. They didn't just go to back to back SBs, which multiple teams have done, but have been back to the SB repeatedly over the last 15 years, not just a 2-3 year good stretch like so many other teams have.

After the deal Jimmy G just got I am strongly leaning toward wanting us to draft a guy. Rosen or Mayfield are my hopes.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

After the deal Jimmy G just got I am strongly leaning toward wanting us to draft a guy. Rosen or Mayfield are my hopes.

I figure a lot will reach that conclusion. There was this group "hope" that we could sign Cousins for something in the mid 20's or lower (cap wise) and it just was never valid. It's what I've been trying to convey, without being a Debbie downer, which is that it's going to be very hard for the Broncos to sign him.

There are two factors.

First, the Broncos simply don't have enough cap without making deep cuts to it's current roster.
Second, their OLB has a cap number over the next three years in the range of Tom Brady and Carr and higher than many starting QBs.

Having $50 million a year of cap dedicated to the QB and LB, when the Broncos also have a fair amount invested in other players, would be challenging. As pointed out in this thread or others, it would probably take losing Talib, Sanders (or DT) and CJ to do it. I don't mention others, because anyone else we lose, like Watson, will need to be money spent on a replacement.

Arguably, Talib will be replaced by Roby (who we need to sign to an extension) and CJ by Booker/DJ/??. Replacing Sanders in house is more problematic, since we struggled to have a viable third receiver much of the year, so it's not like we have a stud waiting to step into Sander's spot.

That's the problem with raising money to pay for Cousins by cutting players. Those holes have to be filled by other free agents, or roster depth.