Thread: Off-Season Notes, press conferences, etc.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

He's a wonderful specimen and will be a great player. He's also a guard. I think that makes him a reach - but that's just an opinion.

He was drafted six. When there are great guards like Nelson, they go in the top five, give or take. The 40 or 50 pressures our guards gave up, which prevented that oft cited "climb the ladder" scream, is why teams drafted great OG's in the top five.

Originally Posted by Tned

He was drafted six. When there are great guards like Nelson, they go in the top five, give or take. The 40 or 50 pressures our guards gave up, which prevented that oft cited "climb the ladder" scream, is why teams drafted great OG's in the top five.

Guards are rarely drafted in the top five, though. I understand the argument. However, that wasn't a scream - everyone who watched the games saw that TS in particular didn't step up in the pocket, even when it held up. Saying that the pocket often was a failure doesn't make that mutually exclusive. Talking about TS is a waste of time, though.

To me, a great guard is less impactful than even a good RB, and now it's rare for RB's to be drafted highly - think how good Barkley's grade was to be the second overall. Position matters, scarcity matters. These guards are hitting the free agency market. I'd rather have a stud like Chubb, and have to go and sign a guard then draft a stud guard and have to go sign a pass rusher like Chubb. And because McGovern is still improving but looked promising, taking Nelson over Chubb, even if you dismiss the positional argument, just strikes me as wrong.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Guards are rarely drafted in the top five, though. I understand the argument. However, that wasn't a scream - everyone who watched the games saw that TS in particular didn't step up in the pocket, even when it held up. Saying that the pocket often was a failure doesn't make that mutually exclusive. Talking about TS is a waste of time, though.

To me, a great guard is less impactful than even a good RB, and now it's rare for RB's to be drafted highly - think how good Barkley's grade was to be the second overall. Position matters, scarcity matters. These guards are hitting the free agency market. I'd rather have a stud like Chubb, and have to go and sign a guard then draft a stud guard and have to go sign a pass rusher like Chubb. And because McGovern is still improving but looked promising, taking Nelson over Chubb, even if you dismiss the positional argument, just strikes me as wrong.

I understand your position. You go more for the Madden, fun positions, rather then foundational positions that are needed to win. In Madden, a QB can spin around three times, hurdle two rushers, get outside the pocket and throw a 50 yard shot to a receiver in triple coverage and it be a completion. In the NFL, not so much.

No question that guards are rarely taken in the top five, or even top 10, because rarely do guards this good come out. When they do, they are picked in the top five or top 10, just like Nelson was.

Hopefully, Veldheer's injuries are behind him and he is a solid right tackle. The Broncos have had abysmal right tackle, worst in the league level, for several years. Hopefully, McGovern can play RG at a solid level, and we won't have all the interior pressure that we had last year, and it was a lot.

I'm excited about the Chubb pick, but Nelson was probably the right pick.

Originally Posted by Tned

I understand your position. You go more for the Madden, fun positions, rather then foundational positions that are needed to win. In Madden, a QB can spin around three times, hurdle two rushers, get outside the pocket and throw a 50 yard shot to a receiver in triple coverage and it be a completion. In the NFL, not so much.

No question that guards are rarely taken in the top five, or even top 10, because rarely do guards this good come out. When they do, they are picked in the top five or top 10, just like Nelson was.

Hopefully, Veldheer's injuries are behind him and he is a solid right tackle. The Broncos have had abysmal right tackle, worst in the league level, for several years. Hopefully, McGovern can play RG at a solid level, and we won't have all the interior pressure that we had last year, and it was a lot.

I'm excited about the Chubb pick, but Nelson was probably the right pick.

I don't go for Madden - I'm going off of what impact players actually make, and that's how most of the league drafts. If Chubb was a LT he'd have been the first overall pick. I haven't played Madden in over a decade. Great guards are drafted past the top ten. And FWIW, had Nelson been a LT, even though we had just taken one, I would have said we should have picked him. It's just that, he's a guard. You can get a good one on the FA market - and a good guard in FA plus another stud player whose position you can't get consistently seems to be the factor, to me.

Veldheer is the massive gamble of the FA period - if he stays upright he should be fine. For perspective of how good Chubb was, not only did a lot of people call him the best player in the draft, but a decent portion of analysts had him rated higher overall than the number one pick from last season.

Allowed two sacks and two QB his in his career, and pass blocking isn't his forte.

Upside: We had to go back to 2015 to find a sack that Nelson clearly allowed on games we watched (it was Sam Hubbard from Ohio State, for what it’s worth) — and pass blocking is considered Nelson's second-best skill. Allowed only two QB hurries in 819 offensive snaps this season and only two sacks and two QB hits over his career (2,336 total snaps). Has outstanding peripheral vision and will cut off backside rushes — i.e. cleaning up others’ mistakes — at the last moment. Terrific flexibility, knee bend and hip torque.

Quotable: “Highest grade [for an offensive lineman] I’ve written up, and I’ve been doing this going on 12, 13 years now. I think injuries are the only thing that could derail him. Maybe he won’t stone a guy like [Aaron Donald] every rep, but I think the kid lives for those kinds of matchups, which is what I love most.” — national scout

Player comp: It’s hard to cross generations with offensive linemen considering how big they have become over the past two decades, but Nelson enters the NFL with a reputation right up there with John Hannah (fourth overall pick in 1973), Mike Munchak (eighth in 1982) or Bruce Matthews (ninth in 1983). Barring injury, Nelson’s floor is Steve Hutchinson. His ceiling? Probably Larry Allen.

Expected draft range: No. 2 to 7 overall

http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...elson/a3a6rm6/

I also saw him mocked to fall around ten because of his position. And I've seen mocks where Chubb was atop the big board/picked number one. In a league where you can sign guys like Leary in FA, when you can get someone on par with Nelson, who also plays a position harder to fill, you take that guy.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/07/nf...-board-top-100

Also, Jaded and Jsteve had a big debate about when Chubb and Nelson went up against one another. That was an interesting read.

leary's a nice enough player-- but if nelson hits like he's supposed to, ron's not anything close to being on par with him. . . nelson's probably going to be the best interior OL in the last couple decades. . . leary is a one-time pro bowl alternate-- it's a whole different animal entirely. . . bottom line, either player would have been a great pick. . . when you have two of the three best prospects in the draft to choose from, and both fill needs on your roster, there is no wrong choice. . .

edit; sorry, actually leary wasn't a pro bowl alternate. . . so yea, not really comparable at all to the guy nelson is likely to become. . . he's a solid piece, and i'd happily take another like him, but a dominating 8- or 10-time all pro he is not. . . doesn't matter anyway, it's over and we got who we got. . . now i wanna see him rip philip rivers' stupid head clean off. . .

Originally Posted by dogfish

leary's a nice enough player-- but if nelson hits like he's supposed to, ron's not anything close to being on par with him. . . nelson's probably going to be the best interior OL in the last couple decades. . . leary is a one-time pro bowl alternate-- it's a whole different animal entirely. . . bottom line, either player would have been a great pick. . . when you have two of the three best prospects in the draft to choose from, and both fill needs on your roster, there is no wrong choice. . .

Leary is a one time Pro Bowler who went a season without giving up a sack. He lost his job when Dallas drafted that LT out of LSU whose draft stock fell, shitty for him. Please note that the last great guard touted as highly as Nelson was that guard out of UNC, who was labeled the best guard prospect ever. Do you guys remember Jonathan Cooper? That's not to say that Nelson will go that way, I don't think he will. But, it is to say that you can consistently get really good guards. What does that tell you? It speaks, not in totality, but it speaks to how GM's view that position and not franchising them. It speaks to the fact teams are also willing to develop their guys and let those guards go. We signed Leary. We developed and are still developing McGovern. The cupboard isn't completely barren.

I will say I wanted us to trade up for Hernandez. Having another guard and being able to put McGovern on the bench/spot duty would be great because then we have some actual depth there. But, at the end of the day, take the greatest guard you've ever seen. And then, compare him to the fifth best pass rusher you've ever seen. If you think you're really taking that guard you're doing it wrong.

Those big boards where you consistently see Chubb ahead of Nelson took into account how awesome Nelson was in college, too.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

I also saw him mocked to fall around ten because of his position. And I've seen mocks where Chubb was atop the big board/picked number one. In a league where you can sign guys like Leary in FA, when you can get someone on par with Nelson, who also plays a position harder to fill, you take that guy.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/07/nf...-board-top-100

Also, Jaded and Jsteve had a big debate about when Chubb and Nelson went up against one another. That was an interesting read.

What you are missing is that Nelson isn't the best guard in this year's draft, he's an Elway/Luck level prospect at his position. One of, if not the best OL prospect in a generation. Like how only Elway and Luck have been considered can't miss QBs in last 35 years, Nelson is in that rare class of prospects at OL.

Originally Posted by Tned

a QB can spin around three times, hurdle two rushers, get outside the pocket and throw a 50 yard shot to a receiver in triple coverage and it be a completion.

Sounds like Keenum.

(Oh boy, here we go again . . . )

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

He's a wonderful specimen and will be a great player. He's also a guard. I think that makes him a reach - but that's just an opinion.

Didn't he go at 6?

Originally Posted by topscribe

Sounds like Keenum.

(Oh boy, here we go again . . . )

Keenum can throw it 50 yards?

Pics, or it didn’t happen.

Case Keenum lobs 50+ yd TD pass in 2013 with Texans -

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uRRPyyvyEbw

Originally Posted by Jaded

Keenum can throw it 50 yards?

Pics, or it didn’t happen.

Here you go.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Keenum can throw it 50 yards?

Pics, or it didn’t happen.

I thought you watched his games . . .