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Thread: The 2018 QB Conundrum

  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    Please behave yourselves. I had to edit a couple of posts in here that got personal.
    oh, come on. . . personal attacks are always warranted when they're directed at chazoe. . .

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  3. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    oh, come on. . . personal attacks are always warranted when they're directed at chazoe. . .
    I agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
    Luckily I'm really stupid.

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  5. #288
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    Let's be honest. This team does not draft well. So if you're saying what I rather have a Pro Bowl quarterback who's legitimately at this point top 10 could end up being top 5 with the right pieces around him or would I rather take a Gamble at a first round pick like we did a few years ago. I am going quarterbacck via free agency. There has never been a quarterback this good and this young to hit the market. When we sign Manning to that record deal he was coming off neck injuries and was already in his late 30s. This guy is 29 everyone that's ever worked with him says he's a fantastic teammate you see what he produces on the field. There is no doubt. And the thing is about these type of deals if you work the cap correctly in 3 years there going to be several other quarterbacks making more money than that as the cap grows every year. We are what we are. We do well in free agency and we have a mediocre draft history. I would much rather put that 30 million to someone that's a proven winner and that you know will bring leadership and great attitude to the locker room then to someone likes a Josh Rosen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazoe60 View Post
    I agree.
    damn right!

  7. #290

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    Quote Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56 View Post
    Perhaps you should think about this differently. We have a $20 mil LB; 3 CBs costing 8, 10 and 12 mil; 2 WRs costing over 8 mil each, a RT who costs 7 mil and is the worst starting RT in the game, a RB making 5 mil who just had his first season over 1000 yds and scored 3 TDs. All that money spent for 5-11. Why? Because we don’t have a QB.

    Perhaps we should spend the big money on the most important position on the roster instead of all the other BS. It’s easier to have a successful team with a good to great QB and a lesser supporting cast than it is to build an entire team to make a journeyman scrub QB a winner.

    Really, how much difference are we talking about money wise for Cousins over a guy like say Tyrod Taylor or AJ McCarron who, like it or not, will likely get close to 20 mil per because that’s the market? 7 mil? 8 mil? That’s Watson’s and CJs contracts. That’s Sanders’ contract. Do you really think we couldn’t live without those guys for a QB that doesn’t turn the ball over 3 times a game and can actually score TDs in the red zone?

    If there’s one position you just can’t “gamble” with it’s QB.
    Your example would be true, except for the fact that they could just go to Von Miller and say "we need some cap space and would like to re-do your contract. We'll give you more money up front as a new signing bonus that we would pay you anyway in guarantees, and that money will be pro-rated over the life of the contract so it will free up perhaps $6m. You get a lovely not-so-little cash signing bonus and we get an extra chunk of money under the cap we can use to sign Cousins."

    Von does it, because it just means he gets more money sooner, that he would get anyway later, and it helps his team. If they don't do more things like that it is because they don't want to, not because they couldn't do it.

    So, the "hard cap" isn't the only thing. Teams have to be within the overall cap at certain times, but how they get within that number is flexible, because what "counts" as money under the cap is subject to weird arcane rules.

    So, every team has a "cap-ologist" whose job is to manipulate the official cap figure, the way accounts fiddle tax deductions so the team can do whatever it really wants in FA spending. Some teams are just a lot more aggressive in how they manage their available cap room than others. Some like Cleveland and the 49ers actually have immense cap room and have trouble spending all of it.
    Last edited by Cugel; 02-17-2018 at 08:05 PM.

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  8. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsteve01 View Post
    Let's be honest. This team does not draft well. So if you're saying what I rather have a Pro Bowl quarterback who's legitimately at this point top 10 could end up being top 5 with the right pieces around him or would I rather take a Gamble at a first round pick like we did a few years ago. I am going quarterbacck via free agency.

    There has never been a quarterback this good and this young to hit the market. When we sign Manning to that record deal he was coming off neck injuries and was already in his late 30s. This guy is 29 everyone that's ever worked with him says he's a fantastic teammate you see what he produces on the field.

    There is no doubt. And the thing is about these type of deals if you work the cap correctly in 3 years there going to be several other quarterbacks making more money than that as the cap grows every year.

    We are what we are. We do well in free agency and we have a mediocre draft history. I would much rather put that 30 million to someone that's a proven winner and that you know will bring leadership and great attitude to the locker room then to someone likes a Josh Rosen.
    I totally agree with all of this. When did Denver ever draft and develop a great QB? Elway was traded for. Don't think we can take any credit for Jay Cutler. Plummer was a FA. Brian Griese? Tim Tebow was a flat failure, so since at least the 1970s they have not successfully drafted and developed a really good starting QB.

    I'd rather take my chances on Kirk Cousins!

    "I like Jake Butts and I can not lie You other brothers can't deny"

  9. #292

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    Alternatively, suppose you like Josh Rosen the best out of the four QBs - Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield and Allen. Suppose you think he's the next great QB to hit the NFL. That doesn't answer the question: can you hope to draft him?"

    Because the Giants sitting at #2 are set to do the exact same thing you are and take Rosen right there. And if they like Rosen, there is no way in Hell they are trading that pick with anybody. So, the Broncos don't even get Rosen unless 3 other teams pass on him including Cleveland twice.

    They would be lucky if they loved Josh Allen if some team didn't trade up Cleveland's #4 pick to grab Allen ahead of the Broncos.

    That could easily happen. Cleveland will have drafted a QB #1 overall. Probably Sam Darnold because for some reason scouts think he has the most upside potential. I don't know personally, so I won't dispute that.

    But, he is supposedly the Cleveland pick since Rosen said he didn't want to play in Cleveland.

    That would mean that at least Rosen and Darnold would be off the board when the Broncos picked and it could be possible one other QB would be taken at #3 or #4 by some team that moved up to that spot for a QB.

    Possibly the Broncos would even have to move up themselves to prevent some other team from moving up and getting ahead of them to take Allen (say).

    I'd much rather they just sat there at #5 not needing a QB because they already have Cousins, and take the best player available or else even trade down with some team that wanted Allen or Mayfield and take a LT or something.

    "I like Jake Butts and I can not lie You other brothers can't deny"

  10. #293

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    I hope we can draft saquon barkley.. pick up Tyrod Taylor.. and draft Lamar jackson in the 2nd or 3rd round... that way we won't be so cap strapped and lose everyone due to someone like cousins.. foles.. Minnesota guys.. only QB worth shelling big money for a year is probably Drew Brees.. I trust in you Elway sir!!!!!

  11. #294
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    If we do pick up a FA qb - i would be happy with Jackson in the third!

  12. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denver27og View Post
    I hope we can draft saquon barkley.. pick up Tyrod Taylor.. and draft Lamar jackson in the 2nd or 3rd round... that way we won't be so cap strapped and lose everyone due to someone like cousins.. foles.. Minnesota guys.. only QB worth shelling big money for a year is probably Drew Brees.. I trust in you Elway sir!!!!!
    The defense imo slipped significantly last year, despite their high ranking in yards. They certainly improved the run defense, but they fell off significantly with pressure. Going from the top half on the league in sacks and QB pressures under Philips to the bottom half.

    I think they need a dynamic pass rusher opposite Miller. Miller, is the really the only one that strikes concern in offenses, and he needs a counterpart. If the pressures and sacks go up, the turnovers should follow. That is the other area that really fell off with the defense. Yes, turnovers and pressures, and I am sure there is a really dynamic rusher at 5 or if they trade down at like 10 or so.

    I was hoping they could land a relatively cheap veteran like a Keenum or even a Mccaron. They could draft either a great pass rusher or the best ILB available. Then they can spend money on one or two FA Olinemen.

    Get the defense going again. Have a solid OL, and this team will compete in every game.

    Then again we have the same coaching staff, so it may not matter.

  13. #296

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    Quote Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56 View Post
    The funny part about this post is that by getting Cousins, it gives us all these great draft picks to actually fix the team long term. Want defense? If we don’t have to spend the #5 overall pick on a QB, we will be in position to draft the BPA on offense or defense. How about Chubb or Davenport across from Miller? That we be sweet! Maybe we trade down and acquire picks while getting a real ILB like Smith and a guard like Nelson or Hernandez or a tackle like McGlinchey or Brown because we have the firepower to move around and fleece some other team (like Buffalo) out of their 2 firsts for our one because they’re desperate for a QB and we have Cousins.

    Sounds like a winner to me! You look at breaking the bank for Cousins and I look at maintaining our draft status and staying in position to draft impact players that can help him be that top 10 guy. If all it costs is guys like Watson, CJ, and yes even Sanders or Talib (all of whom are replaceable Talib being the toughest) then I’m all for it.
    This is a good summary. Suppose some team wants Josh Allen. The Jets need a QB. If they don't land Cousins (say he comes to the Broncos) then they could draft the best QB available on the board at #6 when they draft. In this scenario, any team that wanted Allen would have to consider trading up with the Broncos to get ahead of the Jets at #6. Darnold and Rosen are thought to be going one-two to the Browns & Giants and neither are expected to be on the board at #5, so Allen or Mayfield would be the top prospect left.

    Alternatively, the Broncos could tell the Jets that they are in negotiations with other teams to trade back and let some team leapfrog ahead of the Jets and grab Allen, so that the Jets would have to pay compensation from the Broncos to move up 1 spot and grab Allen themselves. Then the Broncos would have the #6 pick and some extra draft pick! Then they could potentially trade back further in the first round or just sit there and take the best available player at #6.

    They should emerge with an All-Pro player from drafting this high -- but ONLY if they don't desperately need a QB so that they can just draft the best player available regardless of position.

    "I like Jake Butts and I can not lie You other brothers can't deny"

  14. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    While we are just talking about saving money I will play QB for league min! Think of the money saved! I will be total shit, but the money!
    Total shit is an upgrade from Lynch and TS.

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