Thread: The 2018 QB Conundrum

Originally Posted by underrated29

Most had Chad Kelly as a 1st - 3rd rd prospect....Machine Gunning people aside.

cool. . . then let's trade him to somebody else for a 1st round pick, and everyone will be happy. . .

Originally Posted by dogfish

but frey, we gotta "see what we have" with chad kelly!

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

High draft status?

Joe...Let's not start that crap again...Once was enough wasn't it?

Now Mike Klis 9News Broncos Insider is reporting that of the three Qbs on the roster, Kelly is the one most certain to return.

He thinks they are going to try and trade Trevor Siemian, because of his starter experience he has some value, although what I don't know, and probably they don't either.

Osweiler is gone. He's a FA and they will not try and re-sign him.

As for Paxton, his fate depends on who they obtain as a QB this off-season. If the Broncos draft a QB and sign a FA veteran that would be "bad news for Paxton." They might just release him outright or try and trade him for a bag of ramen noodles or something.

If they sign Kirk Cousins as a FA, it might depend on whether they drafted a backup to develop or not. The advantage of paying Cousins a ginormous salary is that it frees up their draft board to draft the best player available or trade their pick to someone who wants a QB in the top 5, etc. I.e. they almost certainly do NOT take a QB in the first round since they would have their franchise Qb.

I suppose they could draft a long term project in the 2nd like Kyle Rudolf? I don't know who, but if they took a guy it could be a repeat of the Osweiler scenario. They sign Peyton and draft Osweiler as his backup for 4 years. In this scenario it's bye-bye birdy for Paxton since they have another developmental QB. That means they have given up on Paxton.

If on the other hand they DON'T draft a Qb he might stick around for another season and compete to be the backup. They'd be paying enough for Cousins that they might not want to sign another FA to be a backup at perhaps $3 or $4m a year and Paxton and Kelly are cheap. They could, in this scenario keep both around. In that case Paxton could wind up the scout team guy this season.

I don't know that they have completely decided to give up Trevor either. If they can't find a trade for him, they might keep him for the 4th season on his contract. He's under contract in 2018 for $718k which seems like an incredible fortune to me, but is peanuts for NFL players.

That is what I would do if I signed a Cousins. Keep Trevor and Kelly as the developmental guy. Dump Lynch like a hot stone. That way they have their starter their backup and a developmental guy.



But, obviously I am not in charge.

The interesting thing is that Klis thinks that Alex Smith might be the Qb they are targeting in FA, since Elway might not want to pay top $ to Cousins or the Redskins might manage to re-sign him.

However, he also thinks the Chiefs will want more to trade within the division than they might otherwise, perhaps a 1st round pick, which is impossible of course. Even a 2nd rounder is pretty steep for Smith so they might not want to pay that.

The Chiefs beat writer was on The Fan yesterday and said he didn't think Andy Reid is concerned about trading Alex Smith, even within the division, although I can't imagine he's going to be willing to help out the Broncos in their desperate search for a starting QB. I wouldn't if I were Reid and had two choices: one, a trade to Denver, two a trade to Cleveland.

Their fans were polled and overwhelmingly want the Chiefs to trade Smith to Cleveland even if that meant taking Cleveland's 3rd round pick in preference to Denver's second, so it will be a big public relations problem for with their fans criticizing the team if they trade Smith within the division. It will NOT be a popular move and a lot of their fans will be screaming mad about it. I don't know if Reid cares about this, but it will be a constant headache all season long if Alex Smith is winning games for the Broncos.

For as long as Smith is keeping the Broncos in contention within the division Chiefs fans would be complaining about the "stupidity" of Andy Reid in trading him to the Broncos. As Denver fans would be chortling. That alone should convince Reid not to consider the trade unless he really thinks Smith is washed up. Well, he led them to the division title and played well in the playoffs, although they lost again of course.

Alex Smith might not win any SBs, but he's competent enough to get a mediocre Chiefs team to the playoffs, and that team is not really much, if any better than the Broncos in terms of overall talent.

They have a much better offense of course, but the Broncos defense is better. It might not be much longer though if they lose Talib which Klis thinks is virtually certain to happen. The highest paid players are Von, Talib, Harris and Roby in that order.

Can you imagine if Tom Brady had been a rookie on our team and gotten his first shot behind the shitty O-Line we have?
He would be an afterthought in the pages of NFL history.
It's all about the line, people.
QB's cannot be properly evaluated behind the ******* mess we have.
You can't just drop a solid QB behind a shitty O-Line and expect miracles.
Players with the talent of a young Elway, which made the crappy O-Line we had then less glaring, only come around once every 30 years.

Originally Posted by EastCoastBronco

Can you imagine if Tom Brady had been a rookie on our team and gotten his first shot behind the shitty O-Line we have?
He would be an afterthought in the pages of NFL history.
It's all about the line, people.
QB's cannot be properly evaluated behind the ******* mess we have.
You can't just drop a solid QB behind a shitty O-Line and expect miracles.
Players with the talent of a young Elway, which made the crappy O-Line we had then less glaring, only come around once every 30 years.

Every QB left in the playoffs has been playing behind a mediocre to not very good OL all season.

Sacks allowed 2017:

Denver: 52
Philly: 36
New England: 35
Minnesota: 27
Jacksonville: 24

Originally Posted by EastCoastBronco

Sacks allowed 2017:

Denver: 52
Philly: 36
New England: 35
Minnesota: 27
Jacksonville: 24

Think some of that might also have to do with a QB decision to get rid of the ball? Siemian might be the king of holding on too long and taking a sack.

There is no doubt that we need upgrades in 2 of the 5 spots on the line, but I have a hard time believing that even if we plugged All-Pros into those 2 spots that any of our QB's would have had significantly improved numbers. Bottom line is...regardless of the quality of our OL, Our QB's suck.

Originally Posted by EastCoastBronco

Sacks allowed 2017:

Denver: 52
Philly: 36
New England: 35
Minnesota: 27
Jacksonville: 24

Bad o-line isn't the only thing that causes sacks. Idiotic QB's holding the ball far too long causes it too. Our o-line isn't NEARLY as bad as those numbers make it seem.

I have no doubt that some of it is QB decision.
My point is that I don't think we will ever know what we had in our current crop of QB's because they were running for their lives 90% of the time instead of learning to read progressions and defences.

Originally Posted by EastCoastBronco

I have no doubt that some of it is QB decision.
My point is that I don't think we will ever know what we had in our current crop of QB's because they were running for their lives 90% of the time instead of learning to read progressions and defences.

Tell that to Carson Wentz. His line was awful all year too and yet he had a season that had he not gotten injured would have undoubtably landed him MVP honors.

A good QB overcomes a bad line. We don't have good QB's. You can be a young QB and play well behind a bad line, guys like Russell Wilson and Wentz help show that, our young guys suck.

Originally Posted by EastCoastBronco

I have no doubt that some of it is QB decision.
My point is that I don't think we will ever know what we had in our current crop of QB's because they were running for their lives 90% of the time instead of learning to read progressions and defences.

I disagree. I think we know what we have. Our OL was even worse when we won a Super Bowl with an ever lesser mobile QB past his prime in Manning. The difference was he had the instincts to get rid of the ball.

So you are saying that it is the ability to scramble that makes them good QB's?
If that is the criteria we are judging by then yes, our QB's suck.

Originally Posted by EastCoastBronco

So you are saying that it is the ability to scramble that makes them good QB's?
If that is the criteria we are judging by then yes, our QB's suck.

It's more than "the ability to scramble" it's making smart choices with the ball and not putting yourself in a bad situation.

Trevor's a great fricken example... I was at the game in KC, the dooosh canoe was floating out of the pocket into the hands of defenders...Half the time he had a clear enough pocket that he could have simply stepped up one step, missed the defender and get the pass off, instead he drifts from side to side right into an edge rusher.

The one time the brainiac DID step up into the pocket he just kept stepped well past the clean area of the pocket right into his own lineman.

It's not even the ability to scramble, it's the ability to not be a colossal moron (which should be saying a hell of a lot considering how much slack I cut that idiot all year)