Exactly, it also helps to attract FA’s when your quarterback doesn’t suck.Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56
Also, it’s really been 3 years since we’ve had a decent quarterback. Manning was awful his last year.
Senior Member
Exactly, it also helps to attract FA’s when your quarterback doesn’t suck.
Also, it’s really been 3 years since we’ve had a decent quarterback. Manning was awful his last year.
Member
You have a good point about Tebow. But, he could never have been successful because he was wildly inaccurate and would throw the ball into the seats, 15 yards away from his WR.
They tried to get him to become a useful NFL QB in both NY and NE and finally in Philadelphia and nobody could do it. If it were possible, someone would have succeeded. He just sucked. Period. He had one fluke season and that was that.
Senior Member
The more I think about it, the more I think we’re screwed in the QB race. Let’s think about this objectively. What teams need a QB more than anything?
Broncos
Jets
Browns
What teams will also need a QB if their starter isn’t re-signed or is released because they want to upgrade?
Redskins
Bills
Vikings
Jaguars
What other teams might be looking to add a QB in the draft due to the age/mileage of their current starter?
Chargers
Saints
Giants
So, looking at that list and the potential veteran QBs that might be had:
Cousins- maybe FA, might get the tag and take a trade to get
Smith- will take a trade to get, and won’t come cheap
Taylor- under contract and will take a trade to get unless released
Keenum/Bradford/Bridgewater- one will be resigned or franchised, 2 have major injury concerns.
Then there’s the 4 “1st round” graded (5 if you add Jackson) QBs in the draft.
Honestly, what makes any of us really think we’re gonna get anyone or especially the one we want? In those scenarios, it’s pretty easy to see teams with more firepower to sign/trade for FAs and move up in the draft to get a QB if they want one. I’m very concerned that Cousins is a pipe dream and that 3 of the four top drafts led will begins before we pick.
I’m going to be very disappointed if we cut guys like Talib and Sanders and all we get out of it is Tyrod Taylor and some project QB. Unfortunately, that’s likely the scenario we’re facing.
Last edited by HORSEPOWER 56; 01-28-2018 at 09:52 PM.
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.” -Winston Churchill
Aggie 4 Life
You listed 10 teams potentially looking for a QB in a market including 11 QB's. Of those 10 only 2 have a draft pick ahead of us (NYG, CLE) and only 3 have a "desperate" need to fill an open QB position (CLE, NYJ, AZ). So, let's play process of elimination...
NO - Have Brees and a pick in the 20's. No ammo to trade ahead of us and no cap space to sign a Cousins, etc.
SD - Rivers still has a few years left in him and they have needs on the OL that, if filled, will potentially make them a winning team in 2018
MIN - Even if they dont work out something long term with Keenum, they have 2 other QB's they can get a deal done with
JAX - Bortles played well enough and almost got them to a Super Bowl. An upgrade would be nice, but not an immediate need. Bottom 4 draft slot.
BUF - Taylor still under contract and they have picks 21 & 22. They'd have to package both to move ahead of us in the draft
WAS - First dibs on Cousins and not drafting until #13 if they cant keep him.
NYG - I'm still not convinced this is a landing spot for a QB draft pick. New coaches are always pressured to win immediately and with Eli still there, Improving the OL or backfield would be a wiser priority to accomplish more immediate wins.
So, that leaves up to 3 teams competing for a top FA and up to 3 teams competing for top draft picks. If there are 5 1st round QB's and 1 top FA to fill those spots, we are in a much better scenario than "Taylor and a project".
Years of mediocrity
Well, this makes things interesting in the QB market. One big domino down, and obviously the Redskins will not attempt to keep Cousins now ...
Ian Rapoport
Verified account @RapSheet
11m11 minutes ago
There is an agreement in principle for Alex Smith to go to the #Redskins. The deal will be finalized tomorrow. This means Kirk Cousins will be a free agent. Mega-deal.
Senior Member
Fake. Teams can't even start discussing this stuff yet.
Nevermind, I guess I'm wrong. I thought teams couldn't do trades til March.
Let's Rid3!!!!
Prof Von HammurSchlong
They cant finalize until March but they can discuss things in principle before hand.
Member
That was my initial reaction. It got posted in our messenger group and I was like "bull" because I thought this crap couldn't happen till March. Apparently, they can do all the legwork now and finalize it in March.
Member
It's not quite as bad as your list:
#1 - Browns are not in the market for Cousins. They have the #1 overall pick and they will draft Darnold or Josh Rosen. They passed on drafting Carson Wentz and have taken years of grief about it ever since. They are determined to get it right this time and not make the same mistake again.
#2 - Giants. Have Eli and are looking to draft Josh Rosen who doesn't want to go to Cleveland and said so. So, they are set at QB for the foreseeable future. Just roll Eli out there until the rookie is ready. NO pressure at all. They are in enviable shape there.
#3 - Jaguars. "Sports Illustrated: Despite Kirk Cousins' availability, Jaguars reportedly sticking with Blake Bortles". Bortles just had surgery on his right wrist. That means his 2018 salary is now fully guaranteed under the terms of the CBA. They cannot cut him now because he's injured, without giving him $19.1m anyway.
So, they are out of the Kirk Cousins sweepstakes."The Jags have $20.1 million in cap space in 2018, according to Spotrac, but that money might be used to fill needs other than quarterback. Because according to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, Jacksonville remains committed to Bortles."
#4 The Chargers aren't in the market for Cousins because they have Phillip Rivers under contract for $20m. There's been ZERO reports from anywhere indicating they would trade him. He's a Charger for life until he shows signs of slowing down.
#5 The Saints aren't getting rid of Drew Brees. He has just placed maximum pressure on them by telling all their fans that "I am a Saint for life!" and doesn't want to leave NO. If they try and trade him now or release him, it will cause a fan riot and their media all love Brees. He's as much a hero in NO as Eli is in NY and we all saw how the media and fans and former Giants players reacted to benching Eli. The blowback was so intense they ended up firing the coach and GM!
They will have to figure out how to pay him. Anyway Brees is a HOF QB and Cousins isn't (yet anyway) so that's certainly not a landing spot!
#6 - Redskins are obviously getting Alex Smith which eliminates all possibility of trying to trade Cousins or re-sign him. He would not sign any contract tender with them since all he has to do is wait until the start of FA and he's unrestricted.
#7 - Jets remain a possibility, because they have a boat-load of cap room. But, they are also the Jets which means they will suck. When were they last in a SB? Oh, yeah, Joe Namath. So, unless they just dramatically out-bid everybody else he's probably not going there.
#8 Vikings remain a possibility, but they still love Teddy Bridgewater who was their franchise QB until he got hurt. He's also a lot younger and cheaper than Cousins. He's only had 3 years in the league prior to injury so he's a lot younger and the word is they will re-sign him, and release Bradford and Keenum, whose play in the NFC Championship made him expendable again.
Odds are they re-sign Bridgewater, and possibly keep Sam Bradford around for 1 more year as a backup, if they can work out a reasonable price tag for that. If Bridgewater passes their physical exam that could be exactly what they do. If not, then possibly they would be interested in Cousins. But, they are not desperate like the Jets and Broncos.
#9 - One TOP landing spot you didn't mention: the Cardinals who have a group of veterans ready to win now, and no QB. It would not be a surprise if he wound up in AZ.
Member
Coach Chaz makes many of the same points that struck me:
NO: If they can afford close to $30m for a QB it will be Brees, not Cousins. If they did take Cousins, Denver would instantly become the target for Brees to land.
SD: Has a LOT Of needs. Their defense isn't great outside Joey Bosa. They could use more talent on their OL. They just need a few pieces and they feel they are the best team in the division this year - WITH Rivers. They could easily be right.
The place where Chaz goes wrong is in thinking that a team would have to trade for Cousins. The Redskins cannot trade Cousins because he's not under contract. He would have to sign a new deal with the Redskins in order for them to be able to trade him, but he won't do that because he just has to wait until March to be unrestricted.
Their only leverage over him would be to franchise tag him at $34m, but they can't do that now that they have dealt for Smith.
The Redskins can't trade Kirk Cousins now and here's why
As was discussed over the past days, the only way the Redskins could trade Cousins would be to apply either the franchise tag or the transition tag and have him sign it. That would put Cousins under contract to the Redskins for one year and they could have worked out a deal with another team.
But part of the problem is money. The Redskins will have about $35 million in salary cap space after Smith’s $17 million cap number factors into the equation. The tags go against the cap immediately so the $35 million for the franchise tag or the $29 million for transition tag would have created a cap squeeze. For example, they would have been unable to use any cap space to lock up their own free agents, players like Zach Brown.
The cap hit would go away after a trade was executed but even so there is another major sticking point. Any sign and trade deal would require Cousins’ cooperation and he now has no incentive to cooperate. He might have gone along with it to ensure that he got to a new destination this year. If he didn’t cooperate, he could have remained in Washington on a tag for a third straight year.
But now, the threat of forcing Cousins to spend another year in limbo is off the table. If they did tag Cousins, he could simply sign the tag and say he’s looking forward to offseason workouts. That would put the Redskins in a sticky situation with both Smith and Cousins under contract.
On top of that, why would Cousins agree to a trade, something that would take players and/or draft picks away from the team he is about to join?
There were a lot of obstacles to executing a tag and trade before the Smith trade. After the deal, they become insurmountable. The Redskins will have to settle for the 2019 third-round compensatory pick they will get when Cousins signs with a new team.
Member
All the talk about trading Cousins ignored the reality that Kirk Cousins had ZERO incentive to cooperate with the Redskins in trading him. He can just sit there, hit FA and choose his own team with zero compensation to the Redskins, and that's exactly what he will do, unless they franchise him, which is now off the table. (The transition tag doesn't help them either because he would sign that immediately too and then they'd have to pay him $29m).
Member
All I know about Cousins is he will generate the largest salary of any QB in the league. Not because he is that good, but because of the number of teams going after him. My question still remains about QB salaries and the fallacy that it takes a "franchise QB" to win it. Top 10 highest paid QBs in the league, all are franchise QBs and none of them have won it AFTER breaking the bank.
Again, we can talk about Brady, but he is not relevant to this discussion considering Brady is the 17th highest paid QB in the NFL. No one really talks about that and that is the main issue. Salary, the hard salary cap, and what ONE PLAYER'S contract can do to a team.
Any one player with a large salary hampers teams ability to field teams. This league is not won by elite QBs. They are won by elite TEAMS. That is the fallacy and it is a fallacy to think we need to back up the brinks truck to pay off some QB. When not even Aaron Rodgers has won it since being paid, what are we supposed to think Cousins will do?
The point is the Packers the year they actually won it was number 2 in defense. That was 2010.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/t...0/seasontype/2
The very next year, and every year since they have been at the bottom half of the league.
in 2011, when the Packers needed to prepare for the new contract Rodgers would demand and the price that Brees's 100 million dollar contract caused, the Packers defense went from top of the league to 32nd. That is last in the NFL in one season.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/t...1/seasontype/2
If Rodgers cannot figure out how to get his team to a SB with an average defense, how is Cousins going to do it? Did he do it in Washington? I am not even sure how people say Cousins is under paid. He is in the top 10 paid QBs.
What is that all about? If he thinks he is underpaid now, what exactly is he looking for?
Member
Other than putting up pretty numbers that the ignorant fan seems to love more than championships, what has Brees won since he broke the Saints bank? The defenses have bye and large been historically bad since 2009.
He did have some really really good numbers though. Is that what Broncos fans want? A version of 2008, where the Broncos were 8-8 with the number 2 offense and the worst defense we have ever seen here?
The ONLY COMMON DENOMINATOR every SB champion team has had is a dynamic defense. Bottom line is, if a QB is paid that much money, it typically reflects in a the decline of the defense and/or other crucial areas.
People wonder why the Colts cannot get a team around Luck. People argue it is ALL about the QB. Well, the Colts along with other teams are proving that it is more than that.
Member
No, the Colts are proving that they are run by Jim Irsay and he's a complete moron. Andrew Luck's cap hit is only around $22m in 2018. The reason the Colts suck is that they haven't bothered to field a competitive team around him, particularly offensive line.
As Alfred Williams put it, there are only about 12 teams in the NFL that really want to win SBs and are willing to spend money and make FA moves to do it. The rest of them just want to watch their portfolios increase due to the increasing price of their franchise.
Oh, they'll take a SB victory if it falls in their lap, but they aren't serious about making it happen. The Colts are among that number. They suck.
The Jets are another such team. The Browns are the epitome of that, which is why they have sucked for 25 years. They've changed everything but their owner over the last quarter century - coaches, players, GMs, water boys, everything. Nothing has been the same over that period except ownership.
Member
Oh, no wonder the Packers defense went from 2 to 32 in one year while preparing to match Brees's contract that he had just signed in 2011, and the Packers nor the Saints have been back to the SB since. Neither has any of the top 10 paid QBs since getting paid.
The Browns several times have been suckered in by those Big 12 QBs and their search for a QB continues. How many first round busts did they draft? Couch, Brady Quinn, Weeden? They signed RGIII right?
I thought first round QBs were automatics. I guess not.
No, not one of those QBs among the top 10 have won it since being paid. That is a fact, and this team will suffer the consequences if they pay 30 mil per year to a QB that has also clearly proven that he cannot carry team without a defense.
Cousins is NOT going to be giving little discounts. We can all count on that.
Last edited by Broncoknight30; 02-06-2018 at 06:24 AM.
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