Thread: The 2018 QB Conundrum

A lot of it has to do with recognizing defenses, proper audibles and hot routes, feeling the pressure, etc. These are the fundamental reasons why guys like Manning and Brady could have bad lines and still not get sacked as often as lesser QB's with better lines.

You talked me into it.
If we are not going to make the O-Line a priority then I'm officially on the mobile QB band wagon.
Are there any good ones out there?

I think Andrew luck was a good mobile, scrambling QB that everybody drooled over...until he got pummeled into submission due to lack of protection.

Originally Posted by EastCoastBronco

So you are saying that it is the ability to scramble that makes them good QB's?
If that is the criteria we are judging by then yes, our QB's suck.

it's more about having pocket presence, pocket mobility, and a clock in their head. . . trevor in particular consistently drifts right out the back of the pocket, so he's running into the edge rushers rather than letting the OTs do their job and push those guys wide of the pocket. . . the line is supposed to give the QB a few seconds, and the ball is supposed to come out on time. . . he has to know when to get rid of it if nothing's there, and our guys don't do that-- they stand there and take the sack instead. . . we all know the line needs to be better, but putting it all on them is an oversimplification. . . we don't necessarily need a scrambling QB, per se-- just a guy who has some awareness. . .

Originally Posted by EastCoastBronco

You talked me into it.
If we are not going to make the O-Line a priority then I'm officially on the mobile QB band wagon.
Are there any good ones out there?

I think Andrew luck was a good mobile, scrambling QB that everybody drooled over...until he got pummeled into submission due to lack of protection.

We didn't talk you into anything because neither of us said anything about needing a mobile QB...

Our issues have nothing at all to do with "mobile QB's" and everything to do with smart QB's. Ideally, the job of the interior o-line is to create a safe area the QB can briefly linger in, the job of the tackles is to push the edge rushers to the side and away from that pocket. This buy's the QB more time. Our o-line isn't terrible at creating a pocket, you can see a semi-stable pocket on most plays. We need tackles that are better at pushing the DE around, but the pocket is usually there. MANY of the sacks we took this year were completely avoidable. All Trevor had to do was step into the safe zone created by the interior line, instead he drifts into the lane where the tackles are pushing the edge rushers.

It has zip, zero, zilch to do with mobility. It's a lack of pocket awareness and the ability to get rid of the ball quickly enough to avoid the pocket collapsing on you. Mobility can certainly help, but that's not what the issue is. The issue is we have a group of dumb asses that have no ability to feel when a rusher is breathing down their neck.

The other issue is a good QB can look at the defense and read where the pressure is coming from and adjust the blocking protection to match and once again, we don't have a good QB on this roster currently.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Well, he obviously has the strength to make all the throws. People assume it's not because of his size, but if you watch enough of him, he drops 50 yard passes off of his back foot. What impresses me the most is his accuracy while on the run. NCAA QB's dont throw into too many windows in college, but the way he can disctate location when he's moving is impressive and leads me to believe the accuracy will translate to the NFL.

IMO, the only question marks with Mayfield have to do with peronality (which I think will be fine), and height/size (which plenty of QB's have proven is not a problem)

When removing off the field issues, how does he compare to Manziel as a qb, specifically who has more arm talent?

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

When removing off the field issues, how does he compare to Manziel as a qb, specifically who has more arm talent?

I would give Mayfield the edge, but let's not let off field issues cloud that particular discussion. Manziel actually had decent accuracy. He even displayed it with Clevelend. That being said, the system that Sumlin ran for Manziel was very QB friendly and almost like an old Glanville run and shoot type of offense. Quite honestly, I'm surprised Manziel did as well as he did in his brief NFL stint.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I would give Mayfield the edge, but let's not let off field issues cloud that particular discussion. Manziel actually had decent accuracy. He even displayed it with Clevelend. That being said, the system that Sumlin ran for Manziel was very QB friendly and almost like an old Glanville run and shoot type of offense. Quite honestly, I'm surprised Manziel did as well as he did in his brief NFL stint.

That’s an interesting take because I remember you being high on Manziel. Manziel would have had a shot if he wasn’t so immature.
I’ve honestly not watched Mayfield. The only film I’ve seen is one with a cop having a faster 40 time

It has zip, zero, zilch to do with mobility. It's a lack of pocket awareness and the ability to get rid of the ball quickly enough to avoid the pocket collapsing on you. Mobility can certainly help, but that's not what the issue is. The issue is we have a group of dumb asses that have no ability to feel when a rusher is breathing down their neck.

The other issue is a good QB can look at the defense and read where the pressure is coming from and adjust the blocking protection to match and once again, we don't have a good QB on this roster currently.

For all the blather about how Trevor was a "cerebral" QB who understood the game, he was very slow in games to recognize what was going on the field. You could almost hear the gears creaking in his head, and by the time he was ready to make a decision it was too late.

People thought he was smart because he went to NW. He went to a bad sports school because he wasn't an idiot and had SOME physical talent.

Fools.

Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
I would give Mayfield the edge, but let's not let off field issues cloud that particular discussion. Manziel actually had decent accuracy. He even displayed it with Clevelend. That being said, the system that Sumlin ran for Manziel was very QB friendly and almost like an old Glanville run and shoot type of offense. Quite honestly, I'm surprised Manziel did as well as he did in his brief NFL stint.

The difference is that Allen is a grinder, who loves the game and wants to be great, while Manziel just loved the party lifestyle he could get by being a celebrity QB.

There are other differences of course. Allen's more inaccurate. I have a hard time imagining that anybody is really going to draft him in the top 5. All the physical tools, but also raw as hell.

Sounds like a boom-bust guy who will either be great or wash out of the league in a few years.

Pass.

Originally Posted by Cugel

The difference is that Allen is a grinder, who loves the game and wants to be great, while Manziel just loved the party lifestyle he could get by being a celebrity QB.

There are other differences of course. Allen's more inaccurate. I have a hard time imagining that anybody is really going to draft him in the top 5. All the physical tools, but also raw as hell.

Sounds like a boom-bust guy who will either be great or wash out of the league in a few years.

Pass.

I don't think anyone has ever come into the game more passionate about winning than Tim Tebow.

Then again, I still think Tebow COULD HAVE been great IF he did not listen to everyone about overly tinkering with his throwing motion. I remember seeing Joe Montana talking about it and he sort of called that he does not really need to break his throwing motion completely down.

That is another issue. The point is Tebow had more passion for the game, than ANYONE we have ever seen, let alone a QB.

The more I think about it - the more the Kirk Cousins plan worries me.

My main concern is that we're overestimating the overall quality of the team and hoping for the quick fix/path of least resistance to get back to the Super Bowl. Should the defense revert to league average, and then we pay top dollar for a slightly above average QB - that kind of leaves us stuck in purgatory as an average team.

I also have Scot McCloughan in my head “He’s a good player,” McCloughan told Mike Pritchard and Cecil Lammey. “Is he special? I don’t see special."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.75b491b0e805

Originally Posted by Buff

The more I think about it - the more the Kirk Cousins plan worries me.

My main concern is that we're overestimating the overall quality of the team and hoping for the quick fix/path of least resistance to get back to the Super Bowl. Should the defense revert to league average, and then we pay top dollar for a slightly above average QB - that kind of leaves us stuck in purgatory as an average team.

I also have Scot McCloughan in my head “He’s a good player,” McCloughan told Mike Pritchard and Cecil Lammey. “Is he special? I don’t see special."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.75b491b0e805

Yeah, I just done see a better option any time soon. We were 14-15 years between Elway and Manning.

I still think we can fill holes in FA if we have a quarterback who doesn’t habitually give the ball to the other team

Originally Posted by Buff

The more I think about it - the more the Kirk Cousins plan worries me.

My main concern is that we're overestimating the overall quality of the team and hoping for the quick fix/path of least resistance to get back to the Super Bowl. Should the defense revert to league average, and then we pay top dollar for a slightly above average QB - that kind of leaves us stuck in purgatory as an average team.

I also have Scot McCloughan in my head “He’s a good player,” McCloughan told Mike Pritchard and Cecil Lammey. “Is he special? I don’t see special."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.75b491b0e805

i don't necessarily think you're wrong-- i worry about that also. . . ultimately, it's a risk-reward analysis, like everything. . . how high are our odds of doing better with a draft pick, vs. the risk of drafting another complete bust like packin' lunch, and having no quarterback as opposed to a less than elite one? for a team that has sucked ass at drafting QBs, do you swing for the fences again, or take the safe route back to respectability with the proven commodity? it's a legitimately tough question. . .

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

Yeah, I just done see a better option any time soon. We were 14-15 years between Elway and Manning.

I still think we can fill holes in FA if we have a quarterback who doesn’t habitually give the ball to the other team

It’s so much more than that. If we can sign Cousins we have great draft position to sign impact players who can make a difference right away. How awesome would it be to sign Cousins, draft Nelson at 5, then get McGlinchey or Brown to play RT at the top of the second? It could completely revamp our offense.