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Thread: I Agree To Disagree With Elway

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncoknight30 View Post
    Bill Belichick was 5-11 in his first season as coach of the Pats, and started off 0-2 in 2001 (1-3). Then Mo Lewis ruined the NFL by injuring Drew Bledsoe.



    Anyway.....you all get the point.
    You forgot to mention that he was 36-44 with the original Cleveland Brown during the last 5 years before they moved to Baltimore. And yes, Belichick has Mo Lewis to thank for opening the door for Brady, which has allowed everyone to for get how bad his coaching career was until Bledsoe got injured.
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by WARHORSE View Post
    Its his call, not mine.

    But coaches who have terrible first years dont usually rebound, especially the 'ra-ra' coaches. (vs cerebral schemers, X's and O's coaches)

    Here are the reasons I would CAN Joseph:

    1. DeAngelo Henderson. Stood out in the preseason. The talent is SO EVIDENT. Yet, he sat on the bench. Belichick would have COACHED HIM UP in order to get him on the field EVEN IF IT WERE FOR 8 PLAYS A GAME. How stupid can you be? Grade: F minus, minus, minus.

    2. McKenzie. Blame Olivo and rightly so, but at the end of the day, THE HEAD COACH oversees the team. McKenzie was a fumble machine and he continuously saw the field. Grade: F minus, minus, minus.

    3. Jamaal Charles. You jerk the all time ypc leader in NFL history for fumbling yet put McKenzie out on the field. Charles ability was EASY to see. And his ability to run is obvious. Not only does he get yards, he's killer in space in the short passing game. Did you see that out of Jamaal this year? NO. An inability to recognize the abilty of players and putting them in a position to do what they do best. Grade: F minus, minus, minus

    4. Defense. Underachieved. No Turnovers. Period. Grade F---

    5. Von Miller. Who? Where did he get off to? Disappeared. His talent didnt leave......yet he was no where to be found. Grade: F---

    6. Offensive line. A merry go round. Grade: F---

    You know what? I dont even want to finish this.

    No sense. We're going to have to hope Elway is right.

    Put your own evidence down. Maybe he reads here.......
    Some of this was warranted. What was the point of keeping Jamaal Charles on this roster if they weren't going to use him at all? He fumbled in KC and they sat him on the bench the rest of the season?

    Brock Olivo should have been fired about week 4 after McKenzie's second or third fumble.

    Vance Joseph admitted in his presser that he failed to coach his coaches enough. Olivo kept putting McKenzie out there week after week, and he kept fumbling and the press was going berserk and the fans were booing . . . . and nothing changed. That imbecile kept on trotting him out there. And VJ did nothing to prevent it until far too late.

    DeAngelo Henderson did look good in the pre-season - against guys who are working at Home Depot right now and checking their text messages to see if their agent has called. That means nothing.

    A FAN's opinion about what is "obvious" isn't worth much. Apparently he didn't know the play-book and was a liability in pass protection. Or something. All that meant is that he wasn't ready.

    This was another coaching failure which fully justified firing Mike McCoy. He failed to make use of the players he was given. The Broncos were simply not on the same page.

    Elway and the front office were drafting players. VJ was coaching the overall team, and Mike McCoy was running his own offensive system without any reference whatever to what the plan was or why guys were drafted, etc. He had HIS players whom he wanted and the rest were Elway's players he tolerated but didn't trust.

    Only his way didn't work because he didn't have an elite QB like Philip Rivers, he had the stiff and the two Giraffes. The offense couldn't get out of its own way.

    Elway was right not to want McCoy on the team. That was a Vance Joseph mistake.
    Last edited by Cugel; 01-04-2018 at 12:24 PM.

  3. #33

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    As for Von Miller any criticism is just flat wrong. Pro-football focus had him as the NFL's #1 pass rusher again. He was constantly double and triple teamed because Shane Ray had the hand injury and contributed nothing this year, Shaqil Barrett is a stiff and there has been no inside pressure since Malik Jackson left. Oh, and they lost a TON of leadership on defense when DeMarcus Ware retired.

    Von Miller was one of the few bright spots on the team last year. He can't do it all himself.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53 View Post
    Booker is just a third-down pass catcher. Charles and Henderson deserved more play than they got. That's on the coaches (and maybe Elway). Also, Sloter should have been the #2 QB on opening day (and, I don't wanna hear any of that crap about needing a vet. Osweiler shouldn't have been signed. Elway probably had something to do with that).
    Sloter was just a long term project, and not a particularly great one either. A bunch of homer fans got all excited about his performance against stiffs in meaningless exhibition games. He doesn't have any future as a starter in MN and he wouldn't have had a future here in any event.

    Supposedly he sucked in practice against the first team defense in practices that were not open to the public. But, by then all the fan-boys had this ridiculous desire for Kyle Sloter.

    Next year it will be Chad "the Gunslinger" Kelly, who has . . . . a great name but probably no future as a star in the NFL. And when the Broncos ship him off to Cleveland to disappear there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth among the fans. Which Elway will ignore, because you can't argue with stupid.

    If you want to criticize Elway and VJ criticize them for ever thinking that Trevor Siemian could be a franchise QB in this league. And criticize Elway for drafting Paxton Lynch too. In retrospect they should just have released him after it was apparent he couldn't win the starting job from a 7th round journeyman QB in Siemian.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    A FAN's opinion about what is "obvious" isn't worth much.
    This is why it surprises me that you produce so much content, your self-awareness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    This is why it surprises me that you produce so much content, your self-awareness.
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    All must hail NostraTimmy!
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  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Live cam footage of Cugel vs joel?
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  12. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    Sloter was just a long term project, and not a particularly great one either. A bunch of homer fans got all excited about his performance against stiffs in meaningless exhibition games. He doesn't have any future as a starter in MN and he wouldn't have had a future here in any event.

    Supposedly he sucked in practice against the first team defense in practices that were not open to the public. But, by then all the fan-boys had this ridiculous desire for Kyle Sloter.

    Next year it will be Chad "the Gunslinger" Kelly, who has . . . . a great name but probably no future as a star in the NFL. And when the Broncos ship him off to Cleveland to disappear there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth among the fans. Which Elway will ignore, because you can't argue with stupid.

    If you want to criticize Elway and VJ criticize them for ever thinking that Trevor Siemian could be a franchise QB in this league. And criticize Elway for drafting Paxton Lynch too. In retrospect they should just have released him after it was apparent he couldn't win the starting job from a 7th round journeyman QB in Siemian.
    Supposedly is the key word. How do we know he really did? I love how people just write Sloter off when it's clear that the Broncos didn't have anything better at QB this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53 View Post
    Supposedly is the key word. How do we know he really did? I love how people just write Sloter off when it's clear that the Broncos didn't have anything better at QB this year.
    A lot of quarterbacks have sucked against Denver's first-team defense the last five years.
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  15. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    This is why it surprises me that you produce so much content, your self-awareness.
    I have no opinion about Kyle Sloter. I thought he looked good in the pre-season and was surprised they cut him. So, I paid attention to sports writers who asked that very question to Broncos front office staff and this is what they were told: Sloter didn't look that good in closed practices. He was basically very raw and about what you'd expect from a 7th round pick. In short a long-shot developmental guy.

    So, I mention this in a post on these boards and get flamed for it. Fine. Take your shots.

    Except that the opinions expressed were not MINE, but those of the coaching staff who didn't want Kyle Sloter and don't care about him and were frankly amused at all the fan adulation for a marginal player who, they think, will never be anything much in the NFL.

    I don't know if they are right of course, but the Vikings don't seem to think much of Sloter. They are trying to decide whether Teddy Bridgewater or Case Keenum is their starter and whether to keep Sam Bradford as a backup. Not much room for Sloter there to be honest.

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  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53 View Post
    Supposedly is the key word. How do we know he really did? I love how people just write Sloter off when it's clear that the Broncos didn't have anything better at QB this year.
    A lot of fans are still butt-hurt about Sloter for some weird reason. Just because Trevor and Paxton and Osweiler sucked doesn't mean that Sloter would be a viable #2 QB. He had zero NFL starting experience.

    People seem confused by the whole Sloter release, so I posted here their reasons.

    Now you say "how did they know?" etc. I give up. I would rather have Sloter on the roster than Paxton, but neither is really any use.

    If you want to rip the Broncos coaching staff and John Elway fine. IT's just weird throwing in a nonsense criticism amid other valid criticism.

    They did a lot wrong. Letting Kyle Sloter go was probably not one of their faults.
    Last edited by Cugel; 01-04-2018 at 03:21 PM.

  18. #43

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    Von was a beast this season. He constantly fought against double and triple teams and still was a big factor in games.....against both the run and the pass. Let's not forget about the clueless defensive coordinator who tried to switch a man pressure team to a conservative zone D. There was no scheming to get Von better looks. There was very little blitzing until the second half of the season.

    Von got the shaft and still performed like a superstar without once complaining. I miss Wade.

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  20. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Von was a beast this season. He constantly fought against double and triple teams and still was a big factor in games.....against both the run and the pass. Let's not forget about the clueless defensive coordinator who tried to switch a man pressure team to a conservative zone D. There was no scheming to get Von better looks. There was very little blitzing until the second half of the season.

    Von got the shaft and still performed like a superstar without once complaining. I miss Wade.
    absolutely. . . joe woods is the dope who doesn't know how to generate pressure with scheme. . . it's a joke that they fired fred pagac for woods' shortcomings. . .

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  22. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    absolutely. . . joe woods is the dope who doesn't know how to generate pressure with scheme. . . it's a joke that they fired fred pagac for woods' shortcomings. . .
    Wade was struggling with it in 2016 too just not as noticeably. The issue is that we need someone collapsing the pocket in the middle. I've been harping on that for awhile now. All a QB has to do to avoid Von is step up into the clean pocket and life is well again.

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