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Thread: Cousins is a pro, but...

  1. #1

    Default Cousins is a pro, but...

    ...Absolutely NOT worth a cap-crushing salary. He's top 10 at best. The money he seems to be predicted to be offered is validated only by QBs that can carry a team on their backs and to the SB. Cousins is definitely not that guy. He's got good numbers and is a leader. He'd be a great Bronco, and I'd be happy as hell to have him but we have to be realistic.

    He has not carried the Redskins to notoriety as a starter on his own. That may seem unfair but I'm only talking about his monetary value, not his professional value. Again, he's top 10. That would be awesome for us Broncos fans but is he a SB winning QB, or is he simply a playoff QB? I'm leaning towards a playoff-only QB with question marks. So...

    If we do pursue him, Elway should pull out all of his a-hole negotiating skills and make him realize his place in the greater NFL and what he needs, if he hopes to be a SB QB. Of course, it's totally realistic for him to want to see stability and support from the Broncos, regarding what we have to offer (drafts, coaching, free agents, o-line, receivers, etc.)...but he isn't worth 30-35 mil. and if he wants a great team around him, he should be open to reality, and suck up to 20-25 mil, to show he is a team player. Otherwise, he's not our guy.

    Brees, however. That guy is gold and I would offer my second born (not happening but still...) to have him as a Bronco!
    Last edited by Ground Control; 12-30-2017 at 12:04 AM.

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  3. #2

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    Brees is 38. I would love to have him for 2-3 years but with him I am drafting his future replacement.

    I would take Cousins over Brees at this point. Brees is better but Cousins isn't THAT far behind.

    Cousins could possibly be here another 10-12 years.

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    Cousins lit up our defense with subpar players. Yea, i would love to have him as he is better than ANY QB we have on the roster.

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  7. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Cousins lit up our defense with subpar players. Yea, i would love to have him as he is better than ANY QB we have on the roster.
    I think that game was a bad example, as our entire team was out of sync but yeah, I get it. He has poor playoff experience though (not his fault). I'm totally down, I just don't think he's proven himself to be the absolute ringer his projected value seems to show. My main point is that I WANT him. I just want him at a salary that leaves room for high-level building around him. And at a salary that is equal to his value. He's had a few great seasons, and is getting better each year but...no real playoff experience.

    Again, top 10. I'll take top ten all day. I just want Elway to prove his worth as the deal maker we know him to be and sell Denver as a paradise for the Cousins family. And to get Cousins at his real value, not his hyped value.
    Last edited by Ground Control; 12-30-2017 at 12:57 AM.

  8. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Brees is 38. I would love to have him for 2-3 years but with him I am drafting his future replacement.

    I would take Cousins over Brees at this point. Brees is better but Cousins isn't THAT far behind.

    Cousins could possibly be here another 10-12 years.
    Very true but Brees is a proven winner and soooo much better than Cousins for his respective team currently. He's a SB champion and has kicked ass in a HUGE way this year, where Cousins has provided only good numbers/ leadership. I also agree that Cousins would be the better long term choice but I guess it's a matter of balance.

    Brees: Immediate SB winner that we can draft or develop a franchise QB under for a few years. A few years that might just bring us a ring..or two.

    Cousins: Long term winner that can develop into a SB champion, after a few positive playoff experiences. We just need a decent backup QB (Kelly, even) and can spend the best part of our economy on drafting and buying a kick ass support structure around him.

    I'm ok with either option. I would prefer Cousins long term, but only if he owns the fact that he's not Brees....yet (and accepts a paltry 20-25 mil.). I would prefer Brees short term, as he can change the Broncos immediately, and we can develop a franchise QB under him. Assuming Elway has any idea how to do so....which he hasn't shown so far.

    Basically, I agree! I'm just saying that Cousins isn't worth top dollar in the NFL when he is only a proven top 10 QB. He deserves top 10 dollar, and that's it. After a short contract that he proves he's worth top dollar, then we can pay him that. But for now...I just don't think he is equal to the extra 10-15 mil he would hurt us regarding the hit we would take in money available to make the entire team 'championship'.
    Last edited by Ground Control; 12-30-2017 at 12:56 AM.

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  10. #6

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    Problem with Brees is if we make the same mistake with the successor like we did with Manning, then we are in a world of hurt again in a few years.

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  12. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Problem with Brees is if we make the same mistake with the successor like we did with Manning, then we are in a world of hurt again in a few years.
    Yep, good point. A point that accentuates a lack of faith in Elway's choices at QB. I hope that Elway has learned from his idiocy and will make different choices in the future but we can't assume that...so maybe more weight on Cousins than Brees because of the point you make.

    Sad but true. Fandom has to be realism though, since we have no say outside of our purchase power.

    Still don't want to leave the bank account empty for Cousins, though. But when thinking long term, a balance can be found with his salary and leaning towards drafting a future team around him. Of course, that brings back into question Elway's development prowess, and his ability to open up to let his coaches and staff help make a better future for the team. Also, it means the inevitable wait for fans to see the Broncos reach a championship level again.

    Thanks for the point you made. I'm down for long term commitment and stability. Although we can't discount extended-aged success for Brees, ala Brady, Cousins makes much more sense in a reality where Elway leaves little room for faith in what he would do after Brees retires at the QB position. There is a long list of very successful QBs he has passed on while leaving us with what we have currently. He may change but unless he can land another ringer after Brees, a longer term proven QB is the better choice.

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    Denver has gone the FA route for a fix before. It is time to Draft the next Franchise QB to lead this team for 15 years. Too many holes on Offense to commit so much money, Von and Cousins together are too expensive.

  14. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazam! View Post
    Denver has gone the FA route for a fix before. It is time to Draft the next Franchise QB to lead this team for 15 years. Too many holes on Offense to commit so much money, Von and Cousins together are too expensive.
    I agree on a deep level. I would love to be able to sink into a long relationship with a young badass that can lead us into the future for years to come. I just don't believe that Elway can give us that. He's failed often, and we get to watch teams enjoy the benefits of Elway's missed opportunities. I would hope that he can learn from his mistakes but I get the feeling that we will get stuck with Josh Allen, or another guy that fits Elway's vision of what a new 'him' could be...but the cheap version.

    Jaded, yeah. There is no example that is contradictory to this jaded vision though. Elway has f'ed up every QB choice for the Broncos but Manning. I'm down with drafting our future but if he does, he damn well better be ok with paying the dues needed to develop him. Otherwise, we're better off letting Elway be Elway and let him deal us a known factor.

  15. #10

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    I would rather draft and develop somebody than get Brees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aberdien View Post
    I would rather draft and develop somebody than get Brees.
    Or both.

    I am on team cousins though

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    This is all moot since Eli is coming to Denver.

    It won't save us, but that's what is going to happen.

  19. #13

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    As for Cousins being "worth it" if you mean "for the Broncos" then the answer is "NO!"

    But, for some teams that have just a ton of cap-room because they suck? Their GM and coach are going to get fired if they can't find a QB. Who cares if his salary cripples your cap?

    Cleveland for instance hasn't had a QB since Bernie Kosar. What would he be worth to them? Perhaps he wouldn't want to go there, but what if they offered him $32m a year on a 4 year deal, $128m contract, with 3 years for $96m guaranteed?

    He'd have a hard time turning that down. As for Cleveland, who else are they going to spend it on? Most of their players are rookies and younger players on their rookie contracts. They are cheap. No FAs want to go there, so they aren't spending a lot on FAs.

    They have the cap room to spend. If I were them I'd do it in a heart-beat. Certainly it was better than giving $16m to Brock Osweiler for a 2nd round pick and then just cutting him. He doesn't suck as bad as the QBs they still have on their roster.

    So if Cleveland were smart they could well be all in on the Cousins sweepstakes. Cousin's agent might tell them "he doesn't want to go there" but they could tell the guy that they would offer at least $1m a year more than anybody else and the guarantee would be 3 years on a 4 year deal, with a fifth year option.

    Would that convince him? I have no idea. Perhaps he'd go somewhere else. But, Cleveland would have been driving the market up. Other teams would have to react to that if they wanted Cousins. He will have about 10 teams interested in talking to him about signing.

    That's why he'll get over $30m. Either Cleveland or the Jets or some other team that is getting rid of their QB - Bears? -

    The Browns have $117.5m in cap room. When you think about that you realize that a $50m cash bonus is no big deal to them.
    Last edited by Cugel; 12-30-2017 at 05:18 PM.

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  20. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by wayninja View Post
    This is all moot since Eli is coming to Denver.

    It won't save us, but that's what is going to happen.
    The new GM in his first presser said that he wants and expects Eli to be in NY next season. They aren't letting him go and he's under contract so he isn't going to be available.

    He's also got a $20m a year contract and he ain't taking any pay-cuts. Could they trade him?

    I suppose so, although it would be deeply unpopular in NY. They would take endless grief from Giants fans and the NY media. Imagine if Eli came to Denver, played for 2 seasons and the Broncos went to another SB?

    They would utterly lose their shit in NY. The abuse for John Mara and the new GM would be intense. Why would they do that?

    Better to draft a QB of the future at #2 and then keep Eli for one more year while the kid gets ready. The fans won't be too upset at that because by then they will be eager to see what the kid can do, just as fans here wanted to see what Paxton could do, until we saw what he could do of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wayninja View Post
    This is all moot since Eli is coming to Denver.

    It won't save us, but that's what is going to happen.
    If we sign Eli, kill me.
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