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Thread: Cousins is a pro, but...

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Except, when you look at all the SB winners for the past 10 years its all a bunch of familiar names with one hit wonder exceptions. Im just not sure what answer you have that is better than what is already proven in terms of winning championships. My guess is you would rather just rebuild until we find a QB who can make the organization a believer which could take years, am i correct in assuming that is your outlook? The teams that pay their QB's have a much higher chance of making the playoffs on the regular and much higher chance of making the SB than teams with one hit wonders.
    All*we need is a productive QB that has a relatively small salary that does not totally bankrupt the franchise and makes it possible to sign some key free agents. You know, like the Pats.

    Cause we can see what these gigantic QB salaries have done to certain franchises. Like Luck. Everyone blames them for NOT putting a team around him. Want to know why? Not that hard to figure out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncoknight30 View Post
    All*we need is a productive QB that has a relatively small salary that does not totally bankrupt the franchise and makes it possible to sign some key free agents. You know, like the Pats.

    Cause we can see what these gigantic QB salaries have done to certain franchises. Like Luck. Everyone blames them for NOT putting a team around him. Want to know why? Not that hard to figure out.

    Flacco, after winning it in 2012, gets a big pay day. They immediately needed to get rid of 7 players, many of them key players.*

    Have not really done shi since.
    Dont kid yourself man, Brady got paid a long time ago much like Elway did before he restructured down the road. All young QB's take the money early because their futures are never guaranteed health wise. Flacco and Luck are not HOF'rs either (at least yet) so i wouldnt use them as great examples of the point you are trying to make. Bmore was incredibly stupid to pay Flacco all the money they did no question about it. Brady is a horrible example because they guy got paid a long time ago and had the luxury to restructure his contract long after the fact. Any other QB not getting paid big contracts are sitting at home come playoff time. I dont think you are sitting in the real world when dealing with the most important position in football.

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  4. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Dont kid yourself man, Brady got paid a long time ago much like Elway did before he restructured down the road. All young QB's take the money early because their futures are never guaranteed health wise. Flacco and Luck are not HOF'rs either (at least yet) so i wouldnt use them as great examples of the point you are trying to make. Bmore was incredibly stupid to pay Flacco all the money they did no question about it. Brady is a horrible example because they guy got paid a long time ago and had the luxury to restructure his contract long after the fact. Any other QB not getting paid big contracts are sitting at home come playoff time. I dont think you are sitting in the real world when dealing with the most important position in football.
    It is about what a players salary officially counts AGAINST THE CAP. I understand Brady is paid whatever, but his current salary is the 17th highest among QBs. The Pats have a major advantage in more ways than one.

  5. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by wayninja View Post
    This is all moot since Eli is coming to Denver.

    It won't save us, but that's what is going to happen.
    If we sign Eli, kill me.
    \

    No. It isn't going to happen.

    I don't know where the absurd speculation about Eli leaving NY is coming from, but they just got rid of Ben McAdoo because he wanted to get rid of Eli. The press and media and fan outrage was over the top, especially in NY. So, the first thing the new Giants GM says is "We'll likely 'keep moving' with Eli Manning."

    There is zero chance they will get rid of Eli. The fans practically staged a revolt when McAdoo tried it. It's much easier to keep him around for the rest of his career, draft Josh Rosen, and then when Rosen is ready to come in and start, sometime late in the season, they move Eli out gently. They don't bench him for some scrub.

    The Broncos reportedly aren't interested in Eli anyway. Plan-A Cousins. Plan-B Draft pick plus a lower priced veteran like Tyrod Taylor or maybe Teddy Bridgewater.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncoknight30 View Post
    It is about what a players salary officially counts AGAINST THE CAP. I understand Brady is paid whatever, but his current salary is the 17th highest among QBs. The Pats have a major advantage in more ways than one.
    His salary is that way because he chose to restructure, he had the luxury because he had already achieved so much financially and career wise. I understand the cap issues, i do. But you either learn to make room, restructure, or you keep the QB's we have and hope for the best. Just be ready for many years without playoff appearances and lack of SB appearances because using cheap and average QB's wont get you to the promised land very often.

  7. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Dont kid yourself man, Brady got paid a long time ago much like Elway did before he restructured down the road. All young QB's take the money early because their futures are never guaranteed health wise. Flacco and Luck are not HOF'rs either (at least yet) so i wouldnt use them as great examples of the point you are trying to make. Bmore was incredibly stupid to pay Flacco all the money they did no question about it. Brady is a horrible example because they guy got paid a long time ago and had the luxury to restructure his contract long after the fact. Any other QB not getting paid big contracts are sitting at home come playoff time. I dont think you are sitting in the real world when dealing with the most important position in football.
    Giselle is also worth around $360m so it's not like he can really use the money anyway. He's got over $180m net worth in his own right. So, no he's not too concerned about salary, except that he wants to be paid something appropriate for his worth.

    You cannot compare Brady with anybody else in football.

    Baltimore did the same stupid thing with Joe Flacco, that Denver did with Von Miller -- allow them to hit FA right after winning the SB. In Flacco's case that resulted in him negotiating a maximum deal in 2014 right after he had his career season.

    In Von's case Elway failed to lock him up BEFORE the season, and then was surprised when Von became worth more than $18m a year and he had to pay market rates or lose his SB MVP.

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    Here is what I know.

    All 3 of our sb wins we have had a top 10 qb. Player and pay.
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

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  10. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncoknight30 View Post
    Cousins has sure made a difference for the Redskins win loss records.
    Your right he has, because without Cousin's they likely don't win more than 3 games...

  11. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncoknight30 View Post
    All*we need is a productive QB that has a relatively small salary that does not totally bankrupt the franchise and makes it possible to sign some key free agents. You know, like the Pats.

    Cause we can see what these gigantic QB salaries have done to certain franchises. Like Luck. Everyone blames them for NOT putting a team around him. Want to know why? Not that hard to figure out.
    No, it's not. It's because they suck. They have sucked at finding FA talent and proper drafting for a very long time.

    After all, their OL was never great even under Manning, which probably contributed to his neck injuries.

    Would not a better idea have been to emphasize getting the best 5 OL in football, and building around Luck rather than letting him get clobbered year in and year out and think "he can make up for our crappy OL"? You see the quality on that roster hasn't improved in years when he went down.

    They were 3-13 or something the year Peyton was hurt, and the same record without Luck this year. Trash to trash, year after year.

  12. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Your right he has, because without Cousin's they likely don't win more than 3 games...
    That's why I always assumed there's no way they could possibly let him go, no matter what his salary demands were. It would almost certainly lead to the coach and GM getting fired after a couple more terrible seasons. If they won 7 games with Cousins, how many would they win under Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen or some other rookie?

  13. #161

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    If Kirk Cousins is really a good QB or a "franchise" QB, why have the Redskins not negotiated a long term deal for him? I always got the feeling that they didn't want to give him a Joe Flacco or Matt Stafford type of deal. It was like they were scared to commit big money to him long term.

    We're so down on the QB situation in Denver that I think we're putting Cousins on a pedestal that he might not deserve to be on.

  14. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    If Kirk Cousins is really a good QB or a "franchise" QB, why have the Redskins not negotiated a long term deal for him? I always got the feeling that they didn't want to give him a Joe Flacco or Matt Stafford type of deal. It was like they were scared to commit big money to him long term.

    We're so down on the QB situation in Denver that I think we're putting Cousins on a pedestal that he might not deserve to be on.
    Why did the Redskins sign every FA that hit the market for awhile such as Haynsworth? Their owner and management are idiotic... When dealing with the Redskins, the best course of action is always do the opposite of what they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncoknight30 View Post
    Plenty of evidence that paying QBs top dollar does NOT translate into championships.
    how'd it work out for us the last time we gave a free agent QB a monster payday?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    If Kirk Cousins is really a good QB or a "franchise" QB, why have the Redskins not negotiated a long term deal for him? I always got the feeling that they didn't want to give him a Joe Flacco or Matt Stafford type of deal. It was like they were scared to commit big money to him long term.

    We're so down on the QB situation in Denver that I think we're putting Cousins on a pedestal that he might not deserve to be on.
    this is pretty much where i've been. . . thinking that cousins isn't a top ten type of QB, that he's more in that 12-15 range, and that he hasn't been able to elevate his team. . . however, when i took a closer look at the numbers, i think that's selling him a bit short. . .

    he has been a starter for three years, and he finished in the top 10 in passing yards all three of them (7th, 3rd, 10th). . . he also finished in the top ten in yards per attempt all three years, and finished top ten for completion percentage all three as well (including being 1st in 2015). . . he was 7th in TD passes this year, and 12th and 13th the previous two years. . . TD-to-turnover ratio is the only area where he hasn't put up high end production, and he's still been rated in the top half of the league in that metric as well, despite not having much talent to work with in the receiving corps. . . pierre garcon (who is solid but certainly nothing special) was their leading receiver the past two years, and jamison crowder was their top guy this year with a measly 66 catches for 789 yards and 3 TDs. . . this year, he lost his offensive coordinator and his two best receivers, and still managed to be very productive. . . IMO, he's proven that he can play at a high level regardless of circumstances-- i think he belongs right beside the likes of philip rivers and matt ryan in the QB rankings, and that is good enough. . .

    when considering team success, i didn't realize just how bad washington's defense has been. . . this year they were 21st in total defense and 27th in points per game. . . 2016 they were 28th in total D and 19th in PPG. . . 2015 they were 28th in total D, 16th in PPG. . . our defense should be better than that even if we do lose aqib. . .


    i still don't think he's likely to take us to a super bowl. . . but it's not like i'm counting on baker mayfield or josh allen to get us there, either. . . knight's not wrong that a top price QB makes your roster composition tougher due to salary constraints, but that will ultimately rear its head with a draft and develop guy as well-- if they work out, you have to pay them. . . if we were going to win with the No Fly Zone while we had a QB on his rookie deal, paxton would have had to be the guy. . . that window of utter defensive dominance has passed, though, and we need to find a QB if we want to get back to being competitive on a year-to-year basis. . . i absolutely think cousins is good enough to be that guy. . .

    for me, the real question is the cost. . . and a lot of that comes down to what kirk wants. . . he's already made a lot of money, and he seems like an extremely competitive guy-- is he simply looking to land the contract with the biggest number, or is he also taking the situation into account? and how badly does he want out of washington? i don't see any way you justify paying him 30+ million / year, but i think you have to seriously consider it if you could get him in the 25-27 range. . . personally, i still think drafting and developing is ultimately the best choice, but we're not going to have a chance to get darnold or rosen-- and we haven't exactly crushed it drafting quarterbacks. . . getting a look at mayfield and allen at the senior bowl will be big. . . it's gonna be a real interesting off-season, for sure. . .

  17. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    If Kirk Cousins is really a good QB or a "franchise" QB, why have the Redskins not negotiated a long term deal for him? I always got the feeling that they didn't want to give him a Joe Flacco or Matt Stafford type of deal. It was like they were scared to commit big money to him long term.

    We're so down on the QB situation in Denver that I think we're putting Cousins on a pedestal that he might not deserve to be on.
    They are one of the worst franchises in the league. Last year their owner and GM referred to him by an incorrect first name because they were pissed he didn't take a bad contractual long term offer. It's the same franchise that consistently makes unprofitable trades and drafts, and let a top flight offense walk away even though they could have paid them. If Cousins was playing for a real franchise, I think he would have been locked up already; if he was not locked up then I would find that argument more persausive.

    But you're also right in a big way - this is not a top five guy. Cousins is not going to go out there and put forth a MVP candidacy. But, he is on a Matt Ryan level, and you can win SB's with that.

    If someone thinks he's going to be a consistently elite player, they're wrong, imo. But KC is at this point in his career better than numerous first round QB picks that we deemed to have panned out (Mariota and Winston come to mind).

    Just my thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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