Thread: Lets go over the highest paid QBs in the NFL again.

Lions QB Matthew Stafford: $27 million
Raiders QB Derek Carr: $25 million
Colts QB Andrew Luck: $24.6 million
Saints QB Drew Brees: $24.3 million
Redskins QB Kirk Cousins: $23.9 million
Ravens QB Joe Flacco: $22.1 million
Packers QB Aaron Rodgers: $22 million
Seahawks QB Russell Wilson: $21.9 million
Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger: $21.85 million
Cardinals QB Carson Palmer: $21 million; Giants QB Eli Manning: $21 million


There is the top 10. So, lets discuss how important it is to land a franchise QB again, which is the same thing as a high priced QB. BTW, we will see what Carson Wentz will get when he is up for contract in Philly.

Aaron Rodgers, is great. Has not been to the SB since 2010. That, was 7 years ago. They have not had an adequate defense since that year. Oh, that year they were ranked...I believe top 5. If not first very high. I think they only gave up 15 points per game that year. Broncos in 2015 gave up 18.5 points per game, just give a perspective on that. The Packers defense has not been so high since they paid Rodgers.

Russell Wilson recently got paid after they won it. They have not been quite the same have they?

Anyone noticing anything about that list in relation to Super Bowls? Roethlisberger has not won it since 2008, and Brees not since 2009. Is that telling or not?

Teach us old wise one.

Let's look at who was in the SuperBowl since 2000 (it will probably play out like this if you go back further). After all, you got to be in it to win....

XXXIV Jan. 30, 2000 Georgia Dome (Atlanta) St. Louis 23, Tennessee 16
XXXV Jan. 28, 2001 Raymond James Stadium (Tampa, Fla.) Baltimore 34, New York Giants 7
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 Superdome (New Orleans) New England 20, St. Louis 17
XXXVII Jan. 26, 2003 Qualcomm Stadium (San Diego) Tampa Bay 48, Oakland 21
XXXVIII Feb. 1, 2004 Reliant Stadium (Houston) New England 32, Carolina 29
XXXIX Feb. 6, 2005 Alltel Stadium (Jacksonville, Fla.) New England 24, Philadelphia 21
XL Feb. 5, 2006 Ford Field (Detroit) Pittsburgh 21, Seattle 10
XLI Feb. 4, 2007 Dolphin Stadium (Miami) Indianapolis 29, Chicago 17
XLII Feb. 3, 2008 University of Phoenix Stadium (Glendale, Ariz.) New York Giants 17, New England 14
XLIII Feb. 1, 2009 Raymond James Stadium (Tampa, Fla.) Pittsburgh Steelers 27, Arizona Cardinals 23
XLIV Feb. 7, 2010 Sun Life Stadium (Miami) New Orleans Saints 31, Indianapolis Colts 17
XLV Feb. 6, 2011 Cowboys Stadium (Arlington, Texas) Green Bay Packers 31, Pittsburgh Steelers 25
XLVI Feb. 5, 2012 Lucas Oil Stadium (Indianapolis) New York Giants 21, New England Patriots 17
XLVII Feb. 3, 2013 Mercedes-Benz Superdome (New Orleans) Baltimore Ravens 34, San Francisco 49ers 31
XLVIII Feb. 2, 2014 MetLife Stadium (East Rutherford, N.J.) Seattle Seahawks 43, Denver Broncos 8
XLIX Feb. 1, 2015 University of Phoenix Stadium (Glendale, Ariz.) New England Patriots 28, Seattle Seahawks 24
50 Feb. 7, 2016 Levi's Stadium (Santa Clara, Calif.) Denver Broncos 24, Carolina Panthers 10
LI Feb. 5, 2017 NRG Stadium (Houston) New England Patriots 34, Atlanta Falcons 28

So, if we put them in a tier system we break it down like this.

Top Tier (HOF or sure shots) - Tom Brady (W 02, 04, 05, 15, 17 L 08, 12), Peyton Manning (W 07, 16 L 10, 14), Kurt Warner (W 00, L 02, 09)
2nd Tier (not yet HOF but probable) - Ben Roethlisberger (W 06, 09 L 11), Eli Manning (W 08, 12), Drew Brees (W 10), Aaron Rodgers (W 11), Russell Wilson (W 14 L 15)
3rd Tier (Franchise QB's) - Rich Gannon (L 03), Donovan McNabb (L 05), Matt Hasselback (L 06), Joe Flacco (W 13), Cam Newton (L 16), Matt Ryan (L 17)
4th Tier (anyone else) - Steve McNair (L 00), Trent Dilfer (W 01), Kerry Collins (L 01), Brad Johnson (W 03), Jake Delhomme (L 04), Rex Grossman (L 07), Colin Kaepernick (L 13)

You can probably debate on who should be in the 3rd or 4th tier, but it is pretty obvious. 23 of the possible 36 slots are from HOF or probable HOF QB's. Another 6 are from Franchise type QB's. 7 are from guys who had a few good years or were journeymen.

Bottom line, roughly 2/3 rds of the QB slots were from Elite HOF type QB's. Your chances of being in the SB are much better if you have that type of guy. And if you want to go more than once, you have to have that type of guy.

Originally Posted by BigDaddyBronco

Let's look at who was in the SuperBowl since 2000 (it will probably play out like this if you go back further). After all, you got to be in it to win....

XXXIV Jan. 30, 2000 Georgia Dome (Atlanta) St. Louis 23, Tennessee 16
XXXV Jan. 28, 2001 Raymond James Stadium (Tampa, Fla.) Baltimore 34, New York Giants 7
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 Superdome (New Orleans) New England 20, St. Louis 17
XXXVII Jan. 26, 2003 Qualcomm Stadium (San Diego) Tampa Bay 48, Oakland 21
XXXVIII Feb. 1, 2004 Reliant Stadium (Houston) New England 32, Carolina 29
XXXIX Feb. 6, 2005 Alltel Stadium (Jacksonville, Fla.) New England 24, Philadelphia 21
XL Feb. 5, 2006 Ford Field (Detroit) Pittsburgh 21, Seattle 10
XLI Feb. 4, 2007 Dolphin Stadium (Miami) Indianapolis 29, Chicago 17
XLII Feb. 3, 2008 University of Phoenix Stadium (Glendale, Ariz.) New York Giants 17, New England 14
XLIII Feb. 1, 2009 Raymond James Stadium (Tampa, Fla.) Pittsburgh Steelers 27, Arizona Cardinals 23
XLIV Feb. 7, 2010 Sun Life Stadium (Miami) New Orleans Saints 31, Indianapolis Colts 17
XLV Feb. 6, 2011 Cowboys Stadium (Arlington, Texas) Green Bay Packers 31, Pittsburgh Steelers 25
XLVI Feb. 5, 2012 Lucas Oil Stadium (Indianapolis) New York Giants 21, New England Patriots 17
XLVII Feb. 3, 2013 Mercedes-Benz Superdome (New Orleans) Baltimore Ravens 34, San Francisco 49ers 31
XLVIII Feb. 2, 2014 MetLife Stadium (East Rutherford, N.J.) Seattle Seahawks 43, Denver Broncos 8
XLIX Feb. 1, 2015 University of Phoenix Stadium (Glendale, Ariz.) New England Patriots 28, Seattle Seahawks 24
50 Feb. 7, 2016 Levi's Stadium (Santa Clara, Calif.) Denver Broncos 24, Carolina Panthers 10
LI Feb. 5, 2017 NRG Stadium (Houston) New England Patriots 34, Atlanta Falcons 28

So, if we put them in a tier system we break it down like this.

Top Tier (HOF or sure shots) - Tom Brady (W 02, 04, 05, 15, 17 L 08, 12), Peyton Manning (W 07, 16 L 10, 14), Kurt Warner (W 00, L 02, 09)
2nd Tier (not yet HOF but probable) - Ben Roethlisberger (W 06, 09 L 11), Eli Manning (W 08, 12), Drew Brees (W 10), Aaron Rodgers (W 11), Russell Wilson (W 14 L 15)
3rd Tier (Franchise QB's) - Rich Gannon (L 03), Donovan McNabb (L 05), Matt Hasselback (L 06), Joe Flacco (W 13), Cam Newton (L 16), Matt Ryan (L 17)
4th Tier (anyone else) - Steve McNair (L 00), Trent Dilfer (W 01), Kerry Collins (L 01), Brad Johnson (W 03), Jake Delhomme (L 04), Rex Grossman (L 07), Colin Kaepernick (L 13)

You can probably debate on who should be in the 3rd or 4th tier, but it is pretty obvious. 23 of the possible 36 slots are from HOF or probable HOF QB's. Another 6 are from Franchise type QB's. 7 are from guys who had a few good years or were journeymen.

Bottom line, roughly 2/3 rds of the QB slots were from Elite HOF type QB's. Your chances of being in the SB are much better if you have that type of guy. And if you want to go more than once, you have to have that type of guy.

Those SB with the elite QBs, I am curious to know a few things.

One, was it before or after those QBs were paid elite contracts?

Two, how balanced were their offenses? I find it interesting how out of the top 10 most prolific passing seasons, only one won the SB in the history of the NFL.

Third, i would love to see how solid those defenses were for those championship teams. I mentioned for instance that Rodgers in the year he won it had a top 5 defense that only gave up 15 points per game. Since he got the big money, their defense has been very inconsistent and they have never been back to the SB.

I also find it interesting in Brady's first 3 SBs he won, he did not pass for 4000 yards or have 30TD passes in any of them. Those Pats defenses were certainly elite, especially the one that down the greatest show on turf.

Point being there were other key factors to all of those teams. Also, out of top 10 highest paid QBs, none of them have won it since being paid top dollar.

Kirk Cousins is gonna look great in orange.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

One, was it before or after those QBs were paid elite contracts?

Compare the first list versus the second. Brady has gone to the SB more than any other QB in NFL history, yet he isn't among the highest paid QBs. Brady's success is because of the team and coaching around him. I think he understands that and gives up money for SB rings. If only Denver leadership understood this as well as the Cheatriots do.

You like that?!?!

I think you and Cugel might be on to something...

Lemme see if I can distill it...

Good QBs win games, so get a good QB and you will win games.

May I retort?

Good QBs are a symptom of a winning organization, so build a winning organization.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

I think you and Cugel might be on to something...

Lemme see if I can distill it...

Good QBs win games, so get a good QB and you will win games.

May I retort?

Good QBs are a symptom of a winning organization, so build a winning organization.

You mean like compiling the 7th best winning percentage of all time and the 4th best home field advantage since 1990? That type of winning organization?

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

I think you and Cugel might be on to something...

Lemme see if I can distill it...

Good QBs win games, so get a good QB and you will win games.

May I retort?

Good QBs are a symptom of a winning organization, so build a winning organization.

Which is almost impossible when any one player's contract does not allow a franchise to do it.

That is the point and it reflects in that list.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

Which is almost impossible when any one player's contract does not allow a franchise to do it.

That is the point and it reflects in that list.

I think we'll have to see if any of the guys on that list don't make it to another SB, which I doubt. Roethlisberger or Brees have a decent shot this year. Also how much does Brady make, $18 million a year? $3-4 million is like one decent player. The Patriots have had to make plenty of decisions on letting guys go early for salary cap reasons, they just have a great system and a HOF QB to keep it rolling along.

What is your low cost solution for quarterback?

FWIW, Over The Cap is projecting the Broncos to have as much as $35 million in cap space with the rollover, increase in cap and dead weight coming off. That's more than plenty to add a high-priced quarterback, and I make the argument that paying a quarterback what he's worth doesn't hamstring a roster.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

What is your low cost solution for quarterback?

FWIW, Over The Cap is projecting the Broncos to have as much as $35 million in cap space with the rollover, increase in cap and dead weight coming off. That's more than plenty to add a high-priced quarterback, and I make the argument that paying a quarterback what he's worth doesn't hamstring a roster.

The only fly in this ointment is next year the Broncos will have the sixth person on this list of highest paid QBs in the form of a LB.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

Lions QB Matthew Stafford: $27 million
Raiders QB Derek Carr: $25 million
Colts QB Andrew Luck: $24.6 million
Saints QB Drew Brees: $24.3 million
Redskins QB Kirk Cousins: $23.9 million
Broncos LB Von Miller $22.4 million
Ravens QB Joe Flacco: $22.1 million
Packers QB Aaron Rodgers: $22 million
Seahawks QB Russell Wilson: $21.9 million
Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger: $21.85 million
Cardinals QB Carson Palmer: $21 million; Giants QB Eli Manning: $21 million

Originally Posted by Tned

The only fly in this ointment is next year the Broncos will have the sixth person on this list of highest paid QBs in the form of a LB.

2018 cap hits, and 2nd highest cap hit on the team:
Stafford $26.5m; T.J. Lang $10m; Golden Tate $9.3m (Projected $52m under the projected 2018 cap)
Carr $25m; Khalil Mack, $13.8m (two other players with cap hits more than $10.2m, under $14m)
Luck $24.4m; T.Y. Hilton, $13m (one other player with cap hits more than $10m, under by $83.9m)
Flacco $24.7m; Jimmy Smith $15.6m (two other players over $10.1m, under by $4m)
Rodgers $20.9m; Randall Cobb $12.75m (five other players with cap hits more than $9.9m, under by $34 million)
Wilson $23.7m; Bobby Wagner $13.6m (five other players with cap hits more than $9.7m, under by $8m)
Roethlisberger $23.2m; Antonio Brown $17.6m (five other players with cap hits more than $10m, over the projected cap)
Palmer $20.6m; Larry Fitzgerald $16.8m (three guys above $14m; two more over $9.7m, $17m under)

Brees and Cousins are free agents, pending franchise tag/extensions. The Redskins are under by $52m and the Saints are under by $32m.

I just don't think quarterback salaries handcuff a team that much. With the projected cap and the possible release of Talib, the Broncos would have more than enough to pay a quarterback the going rate, pay rookies and still be able to sign several free agents.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

2018 cap hits, and 2nd highest cap hit on the team:
Stafford $26.5m; T.J. Lang $10m; Golden Tate $9.3m (Projected $52m under the projected 2018 cap)
Carr $25m; Khalil Mack, $13.8m (two other players with cap hits more than $10.2m, under $14m)
Luck $24.4m; T.Y. Hilton, $13m (one other player with cap hits more than $10m, under by $83.9m)
Flacco $24.7m; Jimmy Smith $15.6m (two other players over $10.1m, under by $4m)
Rodgers $20.9m; Randall Cobb $12.75m (five other players with cap hits more than $9.9m, under by $34 million)
Wilson $23.7m; Bobby Wagner $13.6m (five other players with cap hits more than $9.7m, under by $8m)
Roethlisberger $23.2m; Antonio Brown $17.6m (five other players with cap hits more than $10m, over the projected cap)
Palmer $20.6m; Larry Fitzgerald $16.8m (three guys above $14m; two more over $9.7m, $17m under)

Brees and Cousins are free agents, pending franchise tag/extensions. The Redskins are under by $52m and the Saints are under by $32m.

I just don't think quarterback salaries handcuff a team that much. With the projected cap and the possible release of Talib, the Broncos would have more than enough to pay a quarterback the going rate, pay rookies and still be able to sign several free agents.

Let's play that out. If the Broncos could sign Cousins, Brees or Rivers for $25.6 a year (doubtful, he's expected to bring 30+, but with creative bonus numbers, let's say they do). That means QB & Von will be $50 million. That's $10 million higher than the highest combo you mentioned (Steelers) and about $15 million higher than the rest.

It's not no big deal with our LB is paid like Big Ben and then to expect to sign a free agent QB. Then, on top of that, the Broncos have 4 defensive players in the top 54 for '18 ($58 million), which is over double the average number of players teams have in the top 54 highest paid players. They make up for it by only having two players in the top 50 highest paid offensive players (DT and ES both near the bottom of that list).

Bottom line, the Broncos have a lot of money tied up in a few defensive players, and if you look at those four plus TD and ES, you are now at $70 million. Then add in $25 for a free agent QB, and you are bumping up against $100 million on 7 players.

That will leave about $70 million for the other 46 players (rookies and veterans). The median minimum salary on the roster will likely be 750k next year.

So, that's about $35 million if all 46 players were paid the league minimum. That's leaves you $35 million to cover any of the 46 players on the roster that aren't at the league minimum such as: Leary 9 mil, Roby 8.5, Watson 7.5 (if cut will cost 2.7 mil), Marshall 7, Stewart 6, CJ 4.5, Peko 4.2, McManus 3.5, Ray 2.9
Ok, so let's play this out further, we had $35 million for those 46 players, and above I've listed out the top 9 for next year. That totals $53.1 million. Back out the $750k minimum salary we already accounted for, and you are left with $46 million. If you cut Watson, you are at $42 million, or $7 million over the cap.

Now, you are $7 million over, and still have a significant number of those 38 remaining players that are going to make more than $750k. Let's say only 1/3 of them are over the league minimum and only by $500k. That's about another $7 million or so. So, now you are $14 million in the hole.

Yes, you can cut guys like Talib, Watson and Charles, but at a certain point you are going to need to bring in vets to replace them. It's not like we have a right tackle waiting in the wings, so we are probably going to need to sign a right tackle for Watson like money (he wasn't brought in as a bottom dollar vet).


Bottom line, the Broncos aren't going to be able to pay a LB and QB top tier QB dollars and also fill the other holes that exist in the team, and not only that, would need to create more holes in order to afford any "win now" free agent QB.