Thread: John Elway becoming known as a coach killer....

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...a-coach-killer



Jack Dempsey/Associated Press
Mike Freeman's 10-Point Stance: Is John Elway a Coach-Killer?




MIKE FREEMAN
NOVEMBER 22, 2017
Has John Elway lost the trust of the coaching fraternity? Is Dak Prescott not who some of us thought he was? Can the Chiefs find themselves again? All that and more in this week's 10-Point Stance.



1. Denver, Where Coaches Get Hired to Be Fired

Talk to team executives and assistant coaches about John Elway, and you come away with the notion that there is great admiration and respect for him and what he's done in leading the Broncos front office. Some genuinely adore him.

He built a Super Bowl winner. He won a recruiting battle to get Peyton Manning. He built a once-in-a-decade defense. Elway also was a legendary player who worked hard to understand how front offices and scouting work, which became apparent in the top-notch talent he added around him.


But his admirers are almost stunned by what they are seeing from Elway now.

One NFC assistant coach who describes himself as an Elway fan said Elway is increasingly being seen as a coach-killer.

"Coaches are starting to see the Broncos as a death trap," another assistant told B/R.

The cycle started three years ago. The Broncos made the Super Bowl in 2013 but lost to Seattle. Then, after a loss to Indianapolis in the divisional round the following year, coach John Fox was gone, despite having won 38 games over his final three seasons in Denver.

"I think in any relationship, whether it be player-coach, coach-GM, you're always going to have bumpy patches," Elway said at a news conference to announce Fox's departure in 2015. "I think the main thing between John and I was we disagreed how to get to the next level. We accomplished so much, four AFC West championships. But I think the biggest miss between us was how we can take that next step and what it was going to take to get to that next step. I think that's where that disagreement came from."

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This is what losing brings. It truly destroys organizations.

Fox peaked. Kubes peaked. I'm not sure what coach he killed.

Fox was the right hire for this franchise at the time we hired him. We needed a mature calming force to restore order and respectability and that's exactly what Fox brought to the table. Fox was also let go at the exact right time. He was the man to right the ship but not the right guy to captain it once it was afloat.

Kubes was as good at navigating an extremely tricky QB situation as a HC in history and for that alone deserves heaps of praise, the fact that he coached this team to a title amidst that tricky as ever QB situation is just icing on the cake. Kubes deserves more credit than he'll ever get for the job he did with that team.

VJ is a ******* dumpster fire. Worst HC I've ever seen in Denver. He is clueless and I have no idea what John ever saw in this bumbling idiot.

2 out of 3 ain't bad for Elway on HC hires, QBs and OL is a different story entirely.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

Fox was the right hire for this franchise at the time we hired him. We needed a mature calming force to restore order and respectability and that's exactly what Fox brought to the table. Fox was also let go at the exact right time. He was the man to right the ship but not the right guy to captain it once it was afloat.

Kubes was as good at navigating an extremely tricky QB situation as a HC in history and for that alone deserves heaps of praise, the fact that he coached this team to a title amidst that tricky as ever QB situation is just icing on the cake. Kubes deserves more credit than he'll ever get for the job he did with that team.

VJ is a ******* dumpster fire. Worst HC I've ever seen in Denver. He is clueless and I have no idea what John ever saw in this bumbling idiot.

2 out of 3 ain't bad for Elway on HC hires, QBs and OL is a different story entirely.

At this point I realize facts mean very little. Perception is far more important. Often times perception of reality is not based in facts.

This is what is being perceived right now with Elway. If the Broncos were winning, he would.not be questioned at all.

Well, in our politically charged society and our instant what have you done for me lately reality, this is what it is.

i still think GK's health problems were legit. . . it was pretty obvious that john couldn't wait to clear the decks after '16, though, which wasn't a great look for us. . . like, parting ways with fox was justified-- he was underperforming for a team with PFM, we weren't going anywhere with him. . . gutting the entire staff just a year removed from a super bowl is a lot harder to justify, especially when your hand-picked replacements are all disasters. . . if VJ doesn't start getting this thing turned around, i don't see how we can stick with him for more than a second season, but that certainly isn't going to have good optics, either. . . if it does come down to that (i suspect it will), then he damn well needs to get the next hire right. . . we've all seen what the al davis, wild with impatience management style gets you in this league. . . bottom line, john needs to stop fiddling around with coaches and coordinators, and find a damn quarterback-- he's not putting any of these guys in a position to succeed until he does. . .

go hire mccloughan in the off-season, john! the frat boy crew you've assembled isn't getting it done. . .

Because of this Season everyone is trashing him, yet Elway was a Mastermind 2 years ago. Interesting.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Because of this Season everyone is trashing him, yet Elway was a Mastermind 2 years ago. Interesting.

I kinda struggle with it. Landing Manning was huge obviously, but that pretty much made getting other big free agents in easy mode. Without Manning, he hasn't been as successful in free agency and his drafting here has been pretty bad. As others have said, it might be time for him to hire a GM. There are clearly some pretty big holes in our scouting department.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Because of this Season everyone is trashing him, yet Elway was a Mastermind 2 years ago. Interesting.

I kinda struggle with it. Landing Manning was huge obviously, but that pretty much made getting other big free agents in easy mode. Without Manning, he hasn't been as successful in free agency and his drafting here has been pretty bad. As others have said, it might be time for him to hire a GM. There are clearly some pretty big holes in our scouting department.

It all happens in cyclrs. Did anyone think losing Manning wasn't goimg to affect this team?

Kubes would still be HC had his health stayed on track. So how did Elway have anything to do with that?

Originally Posted by Shazam!

It all happens in cyclrs. Did anyone think losing Manning wasn't goimg to affect this team?

Losing Manning doesn't have anything to do with the poor drafting though.

What a stupid ****** article. The article is clearly click bait and used Elway's name to grab attention to any NFL fan.

Elway became VP of operations in 2011, and has had 3 HC's. One, as we all know had to leave because of health concerns. AND by the way, Gary Kubiak is still apart of the Denver Broncos organization, his role now is served as a scout.

The Cleveland Browns since 2011, have had 4 HC's.

The Buffalo Bills since 2011, have had 4 HC's.

The Jacksonville Jaguars since 2011, have had 4 HC's.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers since 2011, have had 4 HC's.

The Oakland Raiders since 2011, have had 4 HC's.

Originally Posted by aberdien

Fox peaked. Kubes peaked. I'm not sure what coach he killed.

Only thing worse than political reporters are sports reporters.

I agree, much ado about nothing.

Originally Posted by Tned

Only thing worse than political reporters are sports reporters.

I agree, much ado about nothing.

Wrong thread. —>

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Originally Posted by Shazam!

It all happens in cyclrs. Did anyone think losing Manning wasn't goimg to affect this team?

Losing Manning doesn't have anything to do with the poor drafting though.

Manning covered many deficiencies. In 2015, even he couldn't operate behind that horrific OLine.

It ended beautifully, but the team most responsible for the demise of Peyton Manning was the Denver Broncos, by not affording him the protection a 38 year old QB needs. Manning started taking a beating in 2014.

I firmly believe this and i believe the OLine is more than half the reason the offense is so putrid.

Originally Posted by tripp

What a stupid ****** article. The article is clearly click bait and used Elway's name to grab attention to any NFL fan.

Elway became VP of operations in 2011, and has had 3 HC's. One, as we all know had to leave because of health concerns. AND by the way, Gary Kubiak is still apart of the Denver Broncos organization, his role now is served as a scout.

The Cleveland Browns since 2011, have had 4 HC's.

The Buffalo Bills since 2011, have had 4 HC's.

The Jacksonville Jaguars since 2011, have had 4 HC's.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers since 2011, have had 4 HC's.

The Oakland Raiders since 2011, have had 4 HC's.

Does not really matter. That is how the league is PERCEIVING Elway at this point. Many are. Regardless of whether it is true or not.