Thread: Broncos fire OC Mike McCoy

Originally Posted by Tned

Speaking of McCoy being fired, I'm suddenly missing all the yapping about him being a scapegoat. Anyone want to get back to that?

You’re missing a great many things, I know because I get to solve them for you.

Btw, you’re the one that started this pissing match.

And Jaded, never one to let someone piss in peace, has to come and cross the streams, ghostbusters style.

Originally Posted by wayninja

And Jaded, never one to let someone piss in peace, has to come and cross the streams, ghostbusters style.

I have a small bladder.

Hopefully Musgrave manages something but I am not expecting the world.

Outside of his work with Carr he hasn't set the world on fire.

Hopefully he can bring something from his experience with Carr and use it here, preferably with one of our kids.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

I'm not saying to jettison DT, unless we could get fair value back for him. Which I don't think would be possible.

What about the rest of the question?

Originally Posted by Tned

Speaking of McCoy being fired, I'm suddenly missing all the yapping about him being a scapegoat. Anyone want to get back to that?

There's really not much else to talk about. Vance Joseph led this team to 6 losses, including two blowouts by the Eagles and Patriots. Vance Joseph is supposedly a defensive coach, yet the defense, that was elite last year under Wade, has struggled to generate pressure, cover tight-ends, or generate turnovers. Drives are repeatedly being killed by the same penalties, and these aren't being taken care of in the film room. Vance Joseph's failure to bench Isiah McKenzie indicates he hardly has a hand in any phase of the game, to tell you the truth. What is he actually even doing on a daily basis, besides going to the media talking about how great the Wednesday practices are?

The way I see it, McCoy was the scapegoat and I'm just not buying it. Vance Joseph knows the clock is ticking, and why not get rid of the guy with the most head coaching experience? Could you imagine if Vance had been fired, and McCoy promoted after the inevitable 7th consecutive loss this week only for McCoy to win out? Vance would never get another HC job again. Firing McCoy and taking a possible interim guy out of the picture was one of the few moves that VJ could make to extend his career.

Actually kind of smart on his part. If only he used some of that intelligence on game day, the team wouldn't have dropped 6 in a row.

Well, we will be soon identifying the turd in the punch bowl. So there is really no need to be emphatic about Mccoy being the problem, or VJ being the problem, or Elway being the problem etc.

IF the Broncos offense looks better (gets better results) under Musgrave over the last 6 weeks, we will know it was Mccoy that was the turd in the punch bowl.

IF the Broncos do not have any sort of improvement and they do the exact same things we will know it was VJ dictating to the OC what he wants.

IF Musgrave changes things up a bit and the results are the same, we will know it is ALL about the talent or lack there of, which will mean it is Elway who is responsible for the talent.

I will say this. Elway is trying to solve the problem on OL. They actually replaced 3 of the 5 from last year. Leary was one of the most sought after OLinemen in free agency and he landed him. He drafted Bolles, who is not a horrific pick, and Jackson was part of the Raiders whose OL last year was considered one of the best in the NFL.

Either way...we are closer to this.

Originally Posted by wayninja

And Jaded, never one to let someone piss in peace, has to come and cross the streams, ghostbusters style.

Thats probably your best line ever.

Would like your opinion on something I've heard various talking heads discussing after this move. Unlike you, I don't watch every play of every Broncos game, but the talking heads essentially said that they don't believe that McCoy was the problem. They talked about how Peyton Manning and Phillip Rivers both loved McCoy, his creativity and his coaching style. They said that McCoy can't control that the QBs are very inaccurate and throw the ball 5-10 feet over the receiver's head on most passes. Specific to Brock, they mention how the Texans fired their highly regarded OC last year while Brock was their QB and now the Broncos have similarly fired McCoy while Brock is the QB.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, but a number of you seem to agree that the Broncos QBs are all mediocre at best so I'm interested in your opinions on this discussion.

Originally Posted by DT88TheGreat

He is saying that if it's a wasted year of learning from McCoy then it should be for Paxton and no matter how he looks this season he deserves another two year's playing under Musgrave since McCoy ruined him before he begun like he did Trevor

Ya...no thanks to that notion.

Originally Posted by MNPatsFan

Would like your opinion on something I've heard various talking heads discussing after this move. Unlike you, I don't watch every play of every Broncos game, but the talking heads essentially said that they don't believe that McCoy was the problem. They talked about how Peyton Manning and Phillip Rivers both loved McCoy, his creativity and his coaching style. They said that McCoy can't control that the QBs are very inaccurate and throw the ball 5-10 feet over the receiver's head on most passes. Specific to Brock, they mention how the Texans fired their highly regarded OC last year while Brock was their QB and now the Broncos have similarly fired McCoy while Brock is the QB.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, but a number of you seem to agree that the Broncos QBs are all mediocre at best so I'm interested in your opinions on this discussion.

I would say somewhere in the middle.

No question that the QBs have had accuracy problems, but both of them have their accuracy and rating plummet when under pressure and are under pressure a lot. That is partially personnel (the pressure) and partially scheme/play calling. As Nicki Jhabvala (Denver Post) tried to make the point of on Sunday when she had a tweet with this in it about 10 time "Another 3 WR formation with pass rusher unblocked." She commented on it pregame and then after tweeting that, a couple minutes later, Tweeted about it happening again.

So, McCoy's refusal to move to personnel groupings that could provide some protection or even mix it up enough is on him. It's not acceptable to simply say, "well the right tackle position sucks, so we will just give up the season by letting our QBs get pummeled." Brock has done a better job avoiding sacks than Siemian, but his production has been about the same, he just has managed to scramble for an incompletion in some cases where Siemian took a sack.

Beyond that, there have been multiple INTs by both QBs where the head coach has stated that it was the receiver running the wrong route. In over three decades of watching the Broncos, I can only remember that being mentioned in a presser one time, which was when a WR wasn't on the same page as Manning on an adjusted hot route and it resulted in a pick six. To have the HC multiple times have to explain that a bad looking INT was actually a veteran wide receiver running the wrong route points to a problem.

We've had time outs called because DT and other veteran receivers didn't know where they were supposed to be in the formation.

So, I think QB inaccuracy certainly could be part of the problem, but anyone that made a case for that being the primary reason, is someone that hasn't done anything other than a superficial evaluation of the Broncos and their offensive woes this year.

No QB can be productive behind Denver's OLine. Its like watching a train wreck.

I would have done something completely and radically different on offense to compensate for this.

Every time he went with straight 5 on the Line and 3 Wides they got wrecked. He couldn't seem to get away from the concepts that worked here years ago with PFM and in SD. They do not have the personnel to run it effectively.

Tailor to your strengths instead of forcing players to do what they cannot. Square peg round hole didn't work.

Originally Posted by MNPatsFan

Would like your opinion on something I've heard various talking heads discussing after this move. Unlike you, I don't watch every play of every Broncos game, but the talking heads essentially said that they don't believe that McCoy was the problem. They talked about how Peyton Manning and Phillip Rivers both loved McCoy, his creativity and his coaching style. They said that McCoy can't control that the QBs are very inaccurate and throw the ball 5-10 feet over the receiver's head on most passes. Specific to Brock, they mention how the Texans fired their highly regarded OC last year while Brock was their QB and now the Broncos have similarly fired McCoy while Brock is the QB.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, but a number of you seem to agree that the Broncos QBs are all mediocre at best so I'm interested in your opinions on this discussion.

We have a really insecure 1st year HC with his back against the wall who felt like he needed to do something to take the heat off of himself. Seems pretty clear to me.

Originally Posted by MNPatsFan

Would like your opinion on something I've heard various talking heads discussing after this move. Unlike you, I don't watch every play of every Broncos game, but the talking heads essentially said that they don't believe that McCoy was the problem. They talked about how Peyton Manning and Phillip Rivers both loved McCoy, his creativity and his coaching style. They said that McCoy can't control that the QBs are very inaccurate and throw the ball 5-10 feet over the receiver's head on most passes. Specific to Brock, they mention how the Texans fired their highly regarded OC last year while Brock was their QB and now the Broncos have similarly fired McCoy while Brock is the QB.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, but a number of you seem to agree that the Broncos QBs are all mediocre at best so I'm interested in your opinions on this discussion.

Thinly veiled smack.

Originally Posted by Buff

We have a really insecure 1st year HC with his back against the wall who felt like he needed to do something to take the heat off of himself. Seems pretty clear to me.

You saw nothing wrong with the play calling, schemes, protection packages, WR miscues, etc?