Thread: Broncos fire OC Mike McCoy

CENTENNIAL, Colo. -- The idea for a change began after the Philadelphia game. The Eagles routed the Broncos, and Brock Osweiler looked like a taller, turnover-prone version of the benched Trevor Siemian. The Broncos stuck with offensive coordinator Mike McCoy through two more losses, including the first at home to the Cincinnati Bengals since 1975.

Coach Vance Joseph's patience expired Monday morning. They say the eye in the sky in the NFL does not lie. After watching the game film, Joseph called in McCoy and fired him, replacing him with Bill Musgrave.

McCoy was Joseph's first hire, the man Broncos country believed could revive Denver's awful offense. Ten games into the season he is gone, and oddly, few are surprised. The players liked and respected McCoy, but did not mesh with his game plans. His call sheet on game day often featured more than 250 plays, a dense model that proved inefficient, particularly in the passing game.

rest - http://www.thedenverchannel.com/spor...-mccoys-firing

OK so I went from being lukewarm on this move to now being absolutely embarrassed by it... We decided that in addition to losing we should now start acting like a bush league organization.

Case in point:

I seriously cannot believe that someone actually cited this as a reason for firing the OC. So basically, the OC was too advanced and his scheme is intended for actual grown-up professionals who are capable of mastering an entire playbook. Whereas WE need someone a little more junior who can dumb things down and bring this back down to a remedial level to suit our stoopid talentless players.

I mean - beyond that, they do the chicken shit anonymous griping to the media tossing their colleague under the bus... A colleague mind you, who has taken the high road at every possible opportunity in his multiple stints in Denver.

VJ is dead to me. Guy is bush league. He should have resigned and promoted McCoy to HC. Elway better get a handle on all of this really quick because it's snowballing into an utter dumpster fire.

Nicki Jhabvala‏Verified account @NickiJhabvala

Brandon Marshall on Vance Joseph: "He's a first-year head coach at a tough organization, a winning organization that doesn't have a lot of patience. I want to get it done for him and I know everybody else wants to get it done for him."

Originally Posted by Buff

OK so I went from being lukewarm on this move to now being absolutely embarrassed by it... We decided that in addition to losing we should now start acting like a bush league organization.

Case in point:

I seriously cannot believe that someone actually cited this as a reason for firing the OC. So basically, the OC was too advanced and his scheme is intended for actual grown-up professionals who are capable of mastering an entire playbook. Whereas WE need someone a little more junior who can dumb things down and bring this back down to a remedial level to suit our stoopid talentless players.

I mean - beyond that, they do the chicken shit anonymous griping to the media tossing their colleague under the bus... A colleague mind you, who has taken the high road at every possible opportunity in his multiple stints in Denver.

VJ is dead to me. Guy is bush league. He should have resigned and promoted McCoy to HC. Elway better get a handle on all of this really quick because it's snowballing into an utter dumpster fire.

I believe I read elsewhere that those comments (about calling plays they hadn't practiced) came from the players, not leaks from the front office.

Bottom line, watching the game, it's been clear that the players were out of sync far too often. Running wrong routes. Having trouble getting into formations. Etc. Maybe his offense was geared to a bunch of high IQ Ivy leaguers and we have bush leaaguers, but that's still on him. His job is to get the most out of the players he has to work with, not continuously put them in a position to fail.

Originally Posted by Tned

I believe I read elsewhere that those comments (about calling plays they hadn't practiced) came from the players, not leaks from the front office.

Bottom line, watching the game, it's been clear that the players were out of sync far too often. Running wrong routes. Having trouble getting into formations. Etc. Maybe his offense was geared to a bunch of high IQ Ivy leaguers and we have bush leaaguers, but that's still on him. His job is to get the most out of the players he has to work with, not continuously put them in a position to fail.

Part of the reason Kubiak/Rico had to move on was because their offense was dated and not sophisticated enough for 2017. Now the problem is that our offense is too sophisticated? It's total bullshit spin - the HC and the GM scapegoated a perfectly capable coordinator for their failures. Period.

Originally Posted by Buff

OK so I went from being lukewarm on this move to now being absolutely embarrassed by it... We decided that in addition to losing we should now start acting like a bush league organization.

Case in point:

I seriously cannot believe that someone actually cited this as a reason for firing the OC. So basically, the OC was too advanced and his scheme is intended for actual grown-up professionals who are capable of mastering an entire playbook. Whereas WE need someone a little more junior who can dumb things down and bring this back down to a remedial level to suit our stoopid talentless players.

I mean - beyond that, they do the chicken shit anonymous griping to the media tossing their colleague under the bus... A colleague mind you, who has taken the high road at every possible opportunity in his multiple stints in Denver.

VJ is dead to me. Guy is bush league. He should have resigned and promoted McCoy to HC. Elway better get a handle on all of this really quick because it's snowballing into an utter dumpster fire.

I'm not disagreeing, but I think the bigger issue here is not that the McCoy offense was too complicated (didn't look very complicated to me), it's that the coach is calling plays not practiced.

I'm no coach, but that seems... "bush league".

Originally Posted by wayninja

I'm not disagreeing, but I think the bigger issue here is not that the McCoy offense was too complicated (didn't look very complicated to me), it's that the coach is calling plays not practiced.

I'm no coach, but that seems... "bush league".

It literally happened every week under Manning because he held everyone to the highest standard. It happens every week under Brady. You have the gameplan, and then you have some variants that you pull out based on game flow and unexpected looks the defense throws you. That's how you consistently win in this league - to be more prepared than the other team. We are on the other end of the spectrum right now.

Originally Posted by Tned

I believe I read elsewhere that those comments (about calling plays they hadn't practiced) came from the players, not leaks from the front office.

Bottom line, watching the game, it's been clear that the players were out of sync far too often. Running wrong routes. Having trouble getting into formations. Etc. Maybe his offense was geared to a bunch of high IQ Ivy leaguers and we have bush leaaguers, but that's still on him. His job is to get the most out of the players he has to work with, not continuously put them in a position to fail.

Someone please at scapegoated to **** and ***** and **** in the word ban filter so I never have to see the silly point being made again.

P.S. Those words started with F, P and C.

Originally Posted by Buff

It literally happened every week under Manning because he held everyone to the highest standard. It happens every week under Brady. You have the gameplan, and then you have some variants that you pull out based on game flow and unexpected looks the defense throws you. That's how you consistently win in this league - to be more prepared than the other team. We are on the other end of the spectrum right now.

I can't tell if we are in agreement. I agree that preparedness is important. I also believe that if you aren't practicing plays until gametime, then you aren't prepared.

That's on McCoy.

Lots of shit rolls up that hill for various reasons, but not practicing what you call? If true, that's... nutty.

Originally Posted by Buff

Part of the reason Kubiak/Rico had to move on was because their offense was dated and not sophisticated enough for 2017. Now the problem is that our offense is too sophisticated? It's total bullshit spin - the HC and the GM scapegoated a perfectly capable coordinator for their failures. Period.

You don't see Belichick using plays that his team can't execute. HE figures out to begin the season what his players can do well and what they can't and he avoids the latter.

That is good coaching. McCoy didn't do that. He doesn't have Peyton or Philip Rivers here. His play calling needed to understand that he's got inexperienced QBs who cannot execute the complexity that far more experienced Qbs struggle to execute.

So, yes, they are going to have to dumb it down for Paxton. I'm fine with that.

If you want to blame Elway for drafting Paxton instead of Dak Prescott, go ahead. That is the mistake he made. He drafted a guy in the first round that every scout had rated as a first round QB talent. Dallas would have drafted him if Denver passed. Sometimes a guy is just a bust and nobody expected it.

That's apparently what happened. I say apparently because they are still trying to get something out of Paxton. We'll see over the next 6 games whether that has any hope or not.

Oh, and the reason Rico moved on had nothing to do with the Kubiak offense being "outdated." That was the FAN reaction, and had nothing to do with why Elway fired him. The Kubiak offense works fine - IF you have the players to execute it.

The problem is that the 97-98 Broncos had HOF LT Gary Zimmerman, RT Tony Jones, G Mark Schlereth, and C Tom Nalen, not to mention HOF RB TD. This current Broncos OL has nobody worth mentioning and none of the RBs compares with TD, not even Jamaal Charles who at least had a great career, but is not the same back any more.

So, no the Kubiak system didn't work well because they didn't have the players. Rico was dumped for conflicts with Elway about the offensive performance, not because Elway thought the Kubiak system is "outdated."

Originally Posted by wayninja

I can't tell if we are in agreement. I agree that preparedness is important. I also believe that if you aren't practicing plays until gametime, then you aren't prepared.

That's on McCoy.

Lots of shit rolls up that hill for various reasons, but not practicing what you call? If true, that's... nutty.

My point is that the entire playbook that you installed in training camp should always be in play... All teams condense the playbook week-to-week. So, for instance, you might have like 20-25% of your playbook in play most weeks, and you would have practiced that subsection extensively that week...

But the real grown up teams can also draw from the additional 80% if necessary. That's why Manning and Brady were such sticklers for studying, execution, etc. So the idea that we're now faulting the OC for doing what all the best teams do is crazy to me...

We ARE in agreement in so far as maybe at some point we should say "Yeah, you really can't go into the other parts of the playbook because the players can't execute" - but the idea that we're firing him over it, to me, indicates more problems with our coaching staff, and talent evaluators, than it does in McCoy's play calling abilities.

Originally Posted by dogfish

i think there's a lot of truth to this. . .

Of course there is.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Oh, and the reason Rico moved on had nothing to do with the Kubiak offense being "outdated." That was the FAN reaction, and had nothing to do with why Elway fired him. The Kubiak offense works fine - IF you have the players to execute it.

The problem is that the 97-98 Broncos had HOF LT Gary Zimmerman, RT Tony Jones, G Mark Schlereth, and C Tom Nalen, not to mention HOF RB TD. This current Broncos OL has nobody worth mentioning and none of the RBs compares with TD, not even Jamaal Charles who at least had a great career, but is not the same back any more.

So, no the Kubiak system didn't work well because they didn't have the players. Rico was dumped for conflicts with Elway about the offensive performance, not because Elway thought the Kubiak system is "outdated."

Why are you always so convicted in your misinformation?