Thread: The Playoffs Are Not Out of Reach...

...But, the conversation about next year is real. I'm all for Osweiler laying hurt on his doubters and becoming what Elway thought he might be before he bailed. I liked him bunches in 2015.

If that doesn't happen though, I say we grab a ringer and use the 1rst round pick for the future at the QB position (to develop under said ringer). Or, I'm open to giving Lynch the time everyone said he needs to develop under a Brees or Cousins. I'm fairly certain now that Elway has little talent for making proper choices regarding up and coming QBs though, so let's hope he sticks to his strengths...reputation and deal making. I do think he can make magic happen with known quantities, so let's go there next year.

The current Broncos need an established leader. If it can't be the coaches, then it has to be a ringer at QB. That will give VJ some breathing room to grow into his job and let us see what he can be. Besides, I'm not sure but I don't think there have been any Hall of Fame coaches that didn't have legendary QBs to ride on their path to greatness. The available stock of free agents in 2018 are not long term solutions but they can be answers that will will to those solutions.

Thoughts?

I don’t think the playoffs are in reach. I don’t see us winning our last seven. I don’t see us winning four more to be honest.

Originally Posted by Ground Control

...But, the conversation about next year is real. I'm all for Osweiler laying hurt on his doubters and becoming what Elway thought he might be before he bailed. I liked him bunches in 2015.

If that doesn't happen though, I say we grab a ringer and use the 1rst round pick for the future at the QB position (to develop under said ringer). Or, I'm open to giving Lynch the time everyone said he needs to develop under a Brees or Cousins. I'm fairly certain now that Elway has little talent for making proper choices regarding up and coming QBs though, so let's hope he sticks to his strengths...reputation and deal making. I do think he can make magic happen with known quantities, so let's go there next year.

The current Broncos need an established leader. If it can't be the coaches, then it has to be a ringer at QB. That will give VJ some breathing room to grow into his job and let us see what he can be. Besides, I'm not sure but I don't think there have been any Hall of Fame coaches that didn't have legendary QBs to ride on their path to greatness. The available stock of free agents in 2018 are not long term solutions but they can be answers that will will to those solutions.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure the Broncos can swing the 28-30+ million a year it's going to take to sign these guys. They have a linebacker making QB money and lots of other high paid players, and while Elway might pull some financial magic and I have no doubt he would like to sign a QB he thinks can help them win now, I'm not sure the numbers will allow it.

If they signed Brees then MAYBE Lynch around still be in the picture after some development.

If they signed Cousins that have elected to move on, cousins still has 10 or so years left.

i do think the playoffs are pretty effectively out of reach. . . most likely scenario is that we win just enough games to drop us out of easy reach of the top QB prospects. . . we;ll see, there's a lot of football (pro and college) between now and then. . . i don't think brees is leaving new orleans-- and i'm not sure that cousins is financially plausible. . . you'd have to make some significant changes to accommodate that deal, at the very least-- and that's presuming that he doesn't also re-sign where he is before hitting the market. . . i do think he's a more realistic option than easy breezy, but IMO a second-tier vet and another draft pick is our most likely path. . . i don't know that mccoy has much of a track record of developing QBs-- anybody know about musgrave?

Originally Posted by dogfish

i do think the playoffs are pretty effectively out of reach. . . most likely scenario is that we win just enough games to drop us out of easy reach of the top QB prospects. . . we;ll see, there's a lot of football (pro and college) between now and then. . . i don't think brees is leaving new orleans-- and i'm not sure that cousins is financially plausible. . . you'd have to make some significant changes to accommodate that deal, at the very least-- and that's presuming that he doesn't also re-sign where he is before hitting the market. . . i do think he's a more realistic option than easy breezy, but IMO a second-tier vet and another draft pick is our most likely path. . . i don't know that mccoy has much of a track record of developing QBs-- anybody know about musgrave?

Musgrave supposedly did a very good job with Carr.

Look at Carr without Musgrave.

Originally Posted by Rick

If they signed Brees then MAYBE Lynch around still be in the picture after some development.

If they signed Cousins that have elected to move on, cousins still has 10 or so years left.

Except that they will be developing Paxton to be a backup, rather like the Patriots developed Jimmy Garapolo until he became a tradeable commodity - they got a 2nd round pick for him.

But, more to the point, suppose Tom Brady had shown signs of mortality as he hit 40? Then they promote Garappolo to be their Franchise QB. Since that didn't happen they traded him.

If the Broncos sign either Cousins, or Brees (maybe a 10% chance any of that will happen), then obviously that's a 2-3 year commitment. But, what if it didn't work out after 2 or 3 years? At that point maybe they can cut him or he retires in Brees' case, then they can go to Paxton.

In fact, that is probably the only way Paxton stays on the roster for his entire contract. They may hope to develop him, but some guys can't be "developed" in that way. They never make it no matter how they are coddled.

But, since they are only developing him to become a spot starter (backup) the bar is lower. They could even re-sign him as a backup after his contract expires. Or trade him for something at that point.

Originally Posted by Rick

If they signed Brees then MAYBE Lynch around still be in the picture after some development.

If they signed Cousins that have elected to move on, cousins still has 10 or so years left.

Except that they will be developing Paxton to be a backup, rather like the Patriots developed Jimmy Garapolo until he became a tradeable commodity - they got a 2nd round pick for him.

But, more to the point, supposed Tom Brady had shown signs of mortality as he hit 40? Then they promote Garappolo to be their Franchise QB. Since that didn't happen they traded him.

If the Broncos sign either Cousins, or Brees (maybe a 10% chance any of that will happen), then obviously that's a 2-3 year commitment. But, what if it didn't work out after 2 or 3 years? At that point maybe they can cut him or he retires in Brees' case, then they can go to Paxton.

In fact, that is probably the only way Paxton stays on the roster for his entire contract. They may hope to develop him, but some guys can't be "developed" in that way. They never make it no matter how they are coddled.

But, since they are only developing him to become a spot starter (backup) the bar is lower. They could even re-sign him as a backup after his contract expires. Or trade him for something at that point.

Originally Posted by Tned

I'm not sure the Broncos can swing the 28-30+ million a year it's going to take to sign these guys. They have a linebacker making QB money and lots of other high paid players, and while Elway might pull some financial magic and I have no doubt he would like to sign a QB he thinks can help them win now, I'm not sure the numbers will allow it.

You are right, but then again that is what it takes. You are now the seeing the inherent flaw in the HARD cap. Parity in the NFL is more like a PARODY. It is almost looney tunes if you will.

Financial magic? Come on. I can understand why Elway tries to get the most out of a dollar. The simple fact is ONE PLAYER'S contract (even an elite franchise QB) can really create problems for a franchise.

I have been over this a few times. Yes, it TYPICALLY takes a franchise QB to get it done. Personally, I think a solid defense is more important than a franchise QB. Looking back over the years, yes we see the SBs with the elite names at QB.

Roethlisberger for instance in that SB win against the Seahawks had like a 22 passer rating in that game. The Steelers defense that year was number one in the NFL. Yes, the franchise QB won it, and Roethlisberger was the big reason they beat the Broncos in the AFCCG, but he did not perform all that well in the SB.

Brady's first 3 SBs the Pats defenses were elite. Especially, the one that shut down the greatest show on turf when they held them to under 20 points.

The Eli Manning SBs? Well, that NASCAR DL of the Giants held the greatest offense to that point to 14 points, I would say that was the reason. The other one too also pretty much shut down the Pats offense.

How about the other Manning in SB 50? Do any of us think he was the reason for that win? No, none of us.

What is the point? A franchise QB is important, but the sobering reality is this franchise needs to get very very lucky. Meaning, not only does Elway need to find an elite QB, but needs one that won't bankrupt the franchise which makes it next to impossible to field a championship team.

Look at the highest paid QBs in the NFL and you will see a common theme.

Luck
Brees
Flacco
Stafford
Carr

Flacco got paid after that SB in 2012, and they have been an average team since. They immediately had to get rid of 7 key players to pay him.
Brees (theSaints) is having a good season this year....finally. Brees has a good seaosn every year, but it has been a while since the Saints have made a legit run. They have not been to the play offs and have not made a serious run in a while.
Luck, everyone is saying the Colts are not surrounding him with talent. Wonder why that is.
Stafford? Ok, are the Lions....going to be winning it soon? No, they aren't.

Hell Rodgers is very highly paid, and so is Roethlisberger. When is the last time they actually got to the SB, let alone win it? Roth, 2008 and Rodgers 2010?

In case you were wondering, Brady is the 17th highest paid QB. Interesting how they are able to sign some key FAs each year? Not to mention having a QB that is the best in the NFL every year.

What are the answers? I honestly have no idea.

This isn't a popular opinion, but I'm more than in favor of letting Brock start the rest of the season and see if he's worth bringing back than throwing in Lynch and hoping by some miracle he isn't awful anymore. Brock is still pretty young himself so it's not like there's no chance he could ever be good.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

This isn't a popular opinion, but I'm more than in favor of letting Brock start the rest of the season and see if he's worth bringing back than throwing in Lynch and hoping by some miracle he isn't awful anymore. Brock is still pretty young himself so it's not like there's no chance he could ever be good.

Yeah, but to me the problem with that is wishing against what we all know. He has had plenty of chances to prove he is more than what he is. No need feeling sorry for him. His flash in 2015 made his life gravy.

It is time to shove Lynch in there. The only problem I have this whole situation is Mccoy/VJ not developing an offense that clearly fits what he does well. I was pretty confident with Mccoy that he was going to do that, based on what we saw him do with Tebow in 2011. Say what you want, but they scrapped the playbook and made an offense that fit what Tebow did well.

If they are not going to be running a spread offense with Lynch, then this thing is going to be disaster. If they try to have him hand off from under center and then face constant 2nd and 3rd and longs, then we can be assured that it will be a disaster.

Fine, people don't like the spread offense option and think this team does not have the personnel to run it. Well, apparently they don't have the personnel to run the conventinal pro style offense either. No QB on this roster is able to run it.

Of course both Siemian and Lynch both ran that spread offense in college and they both rant it effectively. I mean just what the hell do they have to lose? Just try it.

Someone has been smoking the happy weed.

Im sure the Bengals, Dolphins and NYJ are saying the same things.

Originally Posted by dogfish

i do think the playoffs are pretty effectively out of reach. . . most likely scenario is that we win just enough games to drop us out of easy reach of the top QB prospects. . . we;ll see, there's a lot of football (pro and college) between now and then. . . i don't think brees is leaving new orleans-- and i'm not sure that cousins is financially plausible. . . you'd have to make some significant changes to accommodate that deal, at the very least-- and that's presuming that he doesn't also re-sign where he is before hitting the market. . . i do think he's a more realistic option than easy breezy, but IMO a second-tier vet and another draft pick is our most likely path. . . i don't know that mccoy has much of a track record of developing QBs-- anybody know about musgrave?

I sometimes wonder if we give these QB whisperers too much credit. Is it the whisperer or who they are whispering too?