Thread: The uncomfortable position of hoping the Broncos lose.

Losing creates a losing culture. Hard pass.

Originally Posted by VonDoom

Freyaka is making a lot of sense in this thread. Our line isn't good, but it also isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. We have a very good C and RG right now, and our LT is showing promise - I expect him to be even better next year. We need a RT desperately and we certainly could use an upgrade at LG. But as I said in another thread, no team is great at all five positions. Depth is a problem too, and that will come with time if we actually focus on the line. It wasn't going to be solved in one year, but Bolles and Leary were a good start. Think about it - the Cowboys have three all pros on their line but even they have depth issues - with Tyron Smith out last week, Prescott got abused.

In any case, we need a QB and that should be our number one focus, no matter how we get it.

As to the OP, I know it would be better to finish with the best pick possible, but I cannot root against my own team. I loved beating the Raiders in week 17 last week even if it cost us a few draft picks (and that was when we had already officially been eliminated from the playoffs).

I agree. Beating the Raiders helped keep the Raiders down. They lost the division title as a result, and after their playoff loss last year, they tanked this year, just not as bad as Denver because their QB is actually good, not like Denver's stiffs.

But, what would be best for the team? To get a top 3 pick, and select the best damn QB ever in Denver history (Elway was drafted but obviously by the Colts, and Manning was a FA).

Originally Posted by VonDoom

Freyaka is making a lot of sense in this thread. Our line isn't good, but it also isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. We have a very good C and RG right now, and our LT is showing promise - I expect him to be even better next year. We need a RT desperately and we certainly could use an upgrade at LG. But as I said in another thread, no team is great at all five positions. Depth is a problem too, and that will come with time if we actually focus on the line. It wasn't going to be solved in one year, but Bolles and Leary were a good start. Think about it - the Cowboys have three all pros on their line but even they have depth issues - with Tyron Smith out last week, Prescott got abused.

In any case, we need a QB and that should be our number one focus, no matter how we get it.

As to the OP, I know it would be better to finish with the best pick possible, but I cannot root against my own team. I loved beating the Raiders in week 17 last week even if it cost us a few draft picks (and that was when we had already officially been eliminated from the playoffs).

Really, we get an RT that can prevent pass rushers from spinning right around him and we'll be able to manage. It would be nice to have a solid LG, but we can make due with what we've got as long as the RT stops leaking like a siv. That's our issue. Draft a QB with our top 5 pick, package some of our vast number of picks to move back into the first round and draft a stud RT and then grab a MLB or two, and some depth at other positions.

As for the LG position, I think we can safely address that by adding some more depth/competition to start via FA. I don't think it's as imperative to upgrade that position via the draft/

Originally Posted by BeefStew25

Losing creates a losing culture. Hard pass.

So too can chasing "elite" QB's if they aren't there to be had. Terrible franchises do this regularly, drafting one chump after another, wasting high draft picks on duds (like I suspect Paxton Lynch is) as the rest of the roster slowly disintegrates. If there is the next Philip Rivers or Drew Brees, even Andrew Luck in the draft by all means make your move and go for him. If its a bad QB class, or the next best available played in a spread or some such then work on the rest of your needs. If the free agent market says Kirk Cousins gets 25% of your total cap space to sign then you pass on that too. Its like quicksand; If you get desperate and panicky you'll never get out.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

The problems start with the quarterback. Always does in the NFL. If they're in position to get one next year, they have to.

That said, I don't hope they lose.

I don't trust Elway to grab a good QB late in the first, I just don't. I hate seeing this team win...I turn into an angry jackass when we lose, but I'd feel so much better with a top 5 pick than pick 12+ if we start winning some games.

It feels dirty saying it, but I'd rather we just suck the rest of this year so that we can enjoy years and years of not sucking going forward.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

So too can chasing "elite" QB's if they aren't there to be had. Terrible franchises do this regularly, drafting one chump after another, wasting high draft picks on duds (like I suspect Paxton Lynch is) as the rest of the roster slowly disintegrates. If there is the next Philip Rivers or Drew Brees, even Andrew Luck in the draft by all means make your move and go for him. If its a bad QB class, or the next best available played in a spread or some such then work on the rest of your needs. If the free agent market says Kirk Cousins gets 25% of your total cap space to sign then you pass on that too. Its like quicksand; If you get desperate and panicky you'll never get out.

The thing about this year is that it is a really strong QB class, and there are a few that are going early that are going to be stud.

Originally Posted by Cugel

I agree. Beating the Raiders helped keep the Raiders down. They lost the division title as a result, and after their playoff loss last year, they tanked this year, just not as bad as Denver because their QB is actually good, not like Denver's stiffs.

But, what would be best for the team? To get a top 3 pick, and select the best damn QB ever in Denver history (Elway was drafted but obviously by the Colts, and Manning was a FA).

<whisper>Psst. that good QB they have...was a second round pick</whisper>

Originally Posted by Freyaka

The thing about this year is that it is a really strong QB class, and there are a few that are going early that are going to be stud.

I'll confess to ignorance here. College ball bores me, so I don't follow it

Originally Posted by BeefStew25

Losing creates a losing culture. Hard pass.

YOu are absolutely right! I've thought of that and it is a problem. But, this is a rebuilding team anyway. I mean, what do you call a 5-11 team? "A losing team" right? So, they are losing anyway. They suck anyway. Their offense is horrible anyway.

I don't think any clever fan really believes that this team could win with Trevor behind a mediocre OL. Now if they had a really GOOD QB they could win. Seattle's OL has been worse than the Broncos for years now, or at least equally bad. They actually traded away their pro-bowl C Max Unger for TE Jimmy Graham. The leader of their OL , because they didn't wan to pay him! But, Russell Wilson makes them look better than they are.

Denver needs a QB like that. Fans who think that somehow magically the Broncos are going to "Fix" the OL are just delusional. The entire NFL suffers from bad OL play. Pass rushers are getting bigger and faster and better all the time. And OL are still big slow dudes who are totally outclassed athletically by the men they are going against.

Because if you are big and slow and not terribly athletic, in college you play OL. Same sized guy who has speed and agility? NO WAY he plays OL. They move him over to the DL and make him a pass-rusher. So, the best athletes rush the passer and the big fatties try to block them, often unsuccessfully.

Originally Posted by Rick

<whisper>Psst. that good QB they have...was a second round pick</whisper>

Of course! And Tom Brady was a 6th rounder. So what? They got lucky, that's all. The Cowboys wanted to trade up ahead of Denver and grab Paxton Lynch, but didn't. Instead the Broncos got him, to Jerry Jones' chagrin, and the Cowboys wound up with DAk Prescott in the 4th round.

LUCK. You can't depend on it. The only smart thing to do is to get the odds in your favor by drafting the best prospect in the draft if you can - and that means top 5 almost every year.

Elway tried to do it the cheap way three times and the result was Osweiler, Paxton and Trevor. And none of them are any good. No surprise there, but let's not repeat that mistake again.

Get the best damn prospect in the draft if you can! The closest thing to a sure-fire-can't-miss prospect as you can find. Paxton was well regarded, but certainly not a great prospect, since Memphis did not prepare him to run a pro-style system.

Originally Posted by Rick

<whisper>Psst. that good QB they have...was a second round pick</whisper>

Only because teams like the Browns are dumb, and decided to roll with Johnny Football instead of the clearly better player.

That being said, our first round QB looks like a bust. I'm not saying you HAVE to pick your QB in the early part of the first round, but it improves your odds - Winston, Mariota, Goff and Wentz just in the last few years all look at worst decent and at best like decade long franchise starters. Too early to say on this last class, but Watson looks the part, and he was picked twelfth. There are going to be good QB's available this year - we just have to be smart enough to pick the right guy. The Raiders were lucky enough to have their guy fall, and we traded up to select our giraffe.

You can't depend on luck anymore than you can depend on that top 5 pick QB becoming a star.

Winston isn't a stud yet.

Mariota 8tds, 10 ints.

Luck is great.

Goff looks great this year, looked like shit last year.

Wentz looks the part.

RG3 flamed out.

Jawalrus Russell??

Ryan Leaf?

Rick Miror?

Blaine Gabbert?

Vince Young?

The thing is a crap shoot.

To add to this list, Bradford and Alex Smith.

Bradford has talent and with the right team, if he can stay out of the tub, he is a QB capable of helping a team go deep in the playoffs. But he sure isn't a QB good enough to just throw a team on his back.

Alex Smith has never done anything, he has always been consistent but a franchise caliber QB? This year maybe...

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

Is this where we are now, or are some still actually hoping that they somehow finish 8-8 or 9-7?


Just wondering, cause this is a rather rare time. I mean the land of mediocrity that lasted from 2006 to 2011 was a very frustrating time.

How many here think if Broncos get one of the top 3 picks that they will be drafting a QB?

Here is the situation. The season is over. Is there still hope for Lynch? Are there any tentative plans for Kelly? If they do draft a QB, do they come back with this shit staff?

This franchise is truly screwed. I cannot even think of a viable candidate for HC right now for next year.

IF the Broncos finish with a 6-10 or 7-9 record, would that be enough for this shit staff to stay?

I have this weird feeling this staff will be coming back...
UNLESS this team loses out.

Which means we should hoping they lose out. Right?


Right?

You mean it huh?

Look at all you guys meaning what you say. This is incredible!

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

The problems start with the quarterback. Always does in the NFL. If they're in position to get one next year, they have to.

That said, I don't hope they lose.

Coaching and drafting, as well.. Cleveland drafts top 5 every year and still sucks.