Thread: Brock has to go!

If the firing doesn't happen, it will just prove that VJ is unable to do the things that are required to be a head coach in the NFL. Make the hard, and right call. This isn't a knee-jerk reaction, special teams have been awful all year, and last nights game just added fuel to the fire.

Originally Posted by LawDog

It's not whether they had any real hope of beating the patriots, it's about the principle of the thing. I don't want to bother with looking it up, but has there ever been a single player with 5 fumbled punt returns in a season (much less half a season)? I seriously doubt it because you just don't give a guy that many chances. Keeping him out there (because it's his job???) is simply unacceptable. McKenzie has got to go, and Olivo should be gone with him. To do anything else is saying you are fine with failure.

Also, no way JFE's pride let's them play for draft position. That's dumb.

VJ is keeping up with the narrative that Mckenzie is "their guy" until he proves to them otherwise. This is like the Siemian debacle. How many times can you **** up and still have your job secured?

I'd love to work for VJ, I'd come into work late every day and go to lunch for 3 hours.. because clearly this guy doesn't like removing people from their jobs until there's heavy pressure from other people.

Originally Posted by Rick

We probably would have still lost but I suspect there was a bit of a demoralizing feeling for the defense of "****...AGAIN!" after coming out on fire and forcing a 3 'n' out then we ******* fumble the punt and give the Pats great field position.

Of course. But, my point is that looking for the specific causes for each failure in a particular game is totally futile. The defense might not be as good as in 2015, but it's still good enough to win games. HERE's the failures in no order:

1. Drafting failures. The Broncos haven't drafted a pro-bowl player since 2012. Under Elway they have spent first and second round picks on the following busts:

2017: DeMarcus Walker,2nd round #51 . This guy isn't injured. He doesn't show up on the IR, but he's played in only 6 games and has 1 tackle on the season. 3rd round: Carlos Henderson - IR and done.

2016: Paxton Lynch: Traded a 3rd round pick to move up and get this bust in the first round.

2015: 2nd Round: Ty Sambrailo, 3rd Jeff Heurman. Sambrailo was cut and Heurman is invisible and worthless.

2014: Cody Latimer, 2nd round, Michael Schofield 3rd round. Latimer only appears on special teams. Schofield was cut this off-season. Latimer's failure to emerge as a decent WR led to the Broncos signing FAs DT and Sanders to huge contracts.

2013: Sylvester Williams, 1st round, Montee Ball, 2nd round, Kayvon Webster, 3rd round. Complete waste of a draft. None of these players from 4 years ago, all of whom but Montee Ball are still playing in the league, are on the roster.

2012: Brock Osweiler, 2nd round, Ronnie Hillman, 3rd. Enough said.

You should find starting caliber players with your 2nd and 3rd round picks. 1st round is for elite players, 2nd and 3rd round is where you find your starters.

And Denver has failed totally on offense, and partially on defense to draft anybody who can help the team.

Now compare this with FA: The Broncos signed as FAs: Peyton Manning, DeMarcus Ware, Wes Welker, Sanders, TJ Ward, Aqib Talib, Darien Stewart, Domata Pecko, . . . .

Sigh. You can't build your team exclusively or even primarily through FA. It just doesn't work. You have to build through the draft and the Broncos just haven't done that successfully. Outside a few 1st round successes: Von Miller, Shane Ray, Bradley Roby, and 2nd rounder Derek Wolfe, the draft has been a barren wasteland for 5 long years.

And that is on Elway. He just signed a 5 year deal that makes him among the highest paid GMs in football. He's going nowhere. SO, he needs to look carefully at his talent evaluation process because it's clearly not working.

And it starts with "3rd time's the charm!" drafting an elite franchise QB in the first round in 2018.

Originally Posted by LawDog

It's not whether they had any real hope of beating the patriots, it's about the principle of the thing. I don't want to bother with looking it up, but has there ever been a single player with 5 fumbled punt returns in a season (much less half a season)? I seriously doubt it because you just don't give a guy that many chances. Keeping him out there (because it's his job???) is simply unacceptable. McKenzie has got to go, and Olivo should be gone with him. To do anything else is saying you are fine with failure.

Also, no way JFE's pride let's them play for draft position. That's dumb.

I'm just so far beyond blaming special teams at this point. This roster is filled with players we were assured were going to be successful, and they just aren't.

The OL is terrible for the 4th straight year. The defense has worn down, the coaches have been outcoached 5 straight games. . . . .

But they don't have a starting QB. It doesn't matter whether they WANT to play for a top 3 draft pick. That's exactly what they are doing. They need a franchise QB, because this team will go nowhere next year and the year after that unless they find someone who can come in and start and not suck at Qb. And that guy is not on the roster. They simply cannot talk about another "QB competition" between crappola, garbage, and dreck next year and expect the fans not to totally revolt.

Originally Posted by VonDoom

When I saw this thread title, I thought you were talking about the other Brock ...

In any case, you know I'm on board for this. As always, though, Joseph isn't blameless. He was asked why McKenzie was back there and he said something like, "He's our punt returner, that's his job." How many chances can he get to show you that it shouldn't be his job?? That's why Olivo isn't going anywhere. We'll hear this today in the press conference - "gotta coach better, that starts with me, etc"

Do you think Belicheck would have our punt returner on his team? The pregame show said the patriots don't win they just let other teams beat themselves. And then this happened.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

I've seen HS coaches that would be an upgrade. VJ is the worst I've seen. It's bad when McDouchenozzle would be an upgrade.

Jimmy Johnson went 1 and 15 his first year, but I feel your pain.

Originally Posted by BroncoTech

Jimmy Johnson went 1 and 15 his first year, but I feel your pain.

I think my issue is, he doesn't make anyone accountable.

How does Mckenzie remain as PR after 5 fumbles? BB would've had him benched after the 1st. How does Brock Olivo still have a job? How did Siemian manage to remain QB when he had 3 inexcusable games as a starting NFL QB.

Kyle Shanahan won his 1st game yesterday as a NFL HC, there's no question about his job status. Why? Because he's actually a better HC who was worthy of becoming a HC because of his credentials. Why the **** is VJ a HC? Because of his outstanding defense against the Steelers in the playoffs last year?

I don't think Johnson started out with a defense full of probowlers and 2 probowl WRs.

This team, outside of a faded Manning, is almost exactly the same team that whipped the shit out of Carolina to win the superbowl. It is now a team contending for the top draft pick.

Originally Posted by Rick

I don't think Johnson started out with a defense full of probowlers and 2 probowl WRs.

This team, outside of a faded Manning, is almost exactly the same team that whipped the shit out of Carolina to win the superbowl. It is now a team contending for the top draft pick.

I'm fine with that too. We have a lot of picks. Should get some comp picks too. Having a lot of nice early round selections would be huge

Originally Posted by underrated29

I'm fine with that too. We have a lot of picks. Should get some comp picks too. Having a lot of nice early round selections would be huge

For some reason that doesn't provide a lot of comfort considering how atrocious we are at drafting

Originally Posted by chazoe60

I've seen HS coaches that would be an upgrade. VJ is the worst I've seen. It's bad when McDouchenozzle would be an upgrade.

Lets not get crazy here. McDillhole would take VJ's ineptitude and add in blame-shifting, ranting, and raving. VJ is still better than McD. There is a hobo that spends all day every day sleeping in the lobby of my building who might be better than McD

Originally Posted by underrated29

I'm fine with that too. We have a lot of picks. Should get some comp picks too. Having a lot of nice early round selections would be huge

So long as we don't waste picks.

If that is the plan, throw Lynch out there and see if he is worth anything before spending a top 5 pick on a QB. Just drafting another 1 before finding out if you have anything with the 1 you TRADED UP FOR a year ago is just pissing away picks.

If he proves he has the potential to build around, we can use that pick to grab a stud at another position. I don't want 2 1st round QBs on the team unless we have truly done due diligence on the one we have.

Originally Posted by Rick

So long as we don't waste picks.

If that is the plan, throw Lynch out there and see if he is worth anything before spending a top 5 pick on a QB. Just drafting another 1 before finding out if you have anything with the 1 you TRADED UP FOR a year ago is just pissing away picks.

If he proves he has the potential to build around, we can use that pick to grab a stud at another position. I don't want 2 1st round QBs on the team unless we have truly done due diligence on the one we have.

I dont want a qb either.

i want a passrusher, an ilb, a rt and G....A cb, rb and te too.

For what its worth that is the 5th muffed punt by Mackenzie this year...not sure how many he has lost though, but too many times.

IF Lynch proves to be the guy, I would like us to trade back. Stay top 15, but pick up more assets for some of those positions you mentioned.