Thread: Fire Vance Joseph

Originally Posted by Freyaka

What's most hilarious about it... Vance tells keenum to take more shots down field, take more risks... And then he doesn't have the balls to go for it on 4th and sort to win the game...

Vance in a nut shell....

Valid point, well done.

VJ is now 11-19 as HC. McD was 11-17 at the time of his firing.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

McD would be a strict upgrade and it's not even close. Especially since he can't touch the roster with Elway in charge.

Maybe. You are sometimes blinded to his flaws with your appreciation of McD, but I don't totally disagree.

Here's my take. I think bar none, the number one issue that McD had was how he got in pissing contests with players. He didn't act like a head coach, but instead someone with small man complex that just got the power to pick fights with bigger bullies knowing they couldn't touch him.

OK, maybe an over-simplistic analogy, but the point is that as head coach he didn't need to, and shouldn't have, gotten into pissing contests with players, often public and worked to humiliate them, and/or get rid of them.

The perfect example is trying to break/humiliate his star receiver (Brandon Marshall) by not only putting him on the scout team for a week, but having him run as a gunner on punts in practice and have the whole team laughing and making jokes at his expense during practice.

So, that goes beyond not being allowed to touch the roster, because he was sowing discontent in between personnel moves.

That said, he was young. In many cases, he was the same age or younger than players (what was he like 32 or so when hired) and he was very immature in his interpersonal relationship with players.

Now, that's the bad, and with a huge head coaching failure under his belt, and a decade more of life experience, maybe he's matured.

When it comes to how he ran OTA's, training camps, game prep, etc., from what I saw, he did a lot of great things. It was simply that they were more than offset by him acting like an immature bully. Remove the immaturity, and I think he will make a very good, maybe great, HC.

I said that at the time (either when hired or shortly into his stint). I thought there was a really good chance that Denver would suffer with him as head coach, but that experience, and likely failure in Denver, would help him become a good or great HC someday. I still think that.

McD and VJ, two dumbasses that deserve each other.

Originally Posted by Rick

Not to say we don't need a franchise guy at QB, we certainly do, but NONE of the teams this year with one of the big 4 QBs from the draft have a winning record.

We don't either with the guy we took.

We do however have a guy setting rookie records in sacks.

Point is though, none of the QBs taken have made a difference at all this year for the teams that drafted him, possibly outside of Mayfield whom we had no shot at anyway.

Wait? What?

While Chubb has had a good year its not like he has made the Broncos a winning team this year either. I think you are processing this all wrong in terms of how you are comparing the players. all 4 QB's taken are rookies so who in their right mind actually believes they all would be Super Bowl contenders their first year? Do i need to point to Peyton Manning and John Elways first years record wise to prove my point? I would guess not. You cant say the rookie QB's suck just because their teams are not playoff bound and then try to elevate Chubb as the savior of the Denver Broncos. Thats a ridiculous take on your part. While im not totally sold on Rosen or Allen quite yet i do think Darnold and Mayfield have shown they can play at this level and given more experience and time will probably be very good QB's. Not too mention im sure it helps a lot that a certain guy named Von Miller is on the other side of the line to help Chubb be as good as he is.

Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
McD would be a strict upgrade and it's not even close. Especially since he can't touch the roster with Elway in charge.

Leaving John Elway in charge of player personnel decisions would only solve HALF the problem with McDouchnozzle. He was simply one of those horrible human beings. A lying scheming, cheating weasel, just like his mentor Bill. Except that Bill has real talent.

Everyone talks about how brilliant all of Belichick's assistants are, and then they go somewhere and *poof* somehow that brilliance turns out to be inflated by having Brady and Belichick running that team.

Michael Colangelo @MikeColange

Bill Belichick former assistants Head Coaching record:

Charlie Weiss: 41-49 (College)
Romeo Crennel: 28-55
Eric Mangini: 33-47
Josh McDaniels: 11-17
Bill O’Brien: 31-34
Matt Patricia: 0-1

Not one is .500.

Insert Not great, Bob! GIF
105
6:59 PM - Sep 10, 2018

McMoron is far, far worse than VJ. Your lack of perspective being right in the middle of this is blinding you to the obvious - McMoron was about the worst thing to happen to this franchise ever in terms of head coaching. He came, destroyed the team, and left them 1 1/2 years later with an utterly depleted roster devoid of talent, and having squandered boatloads of draft picks without getting much in return for most of them.

VJ leaves the team in better shape than when he came. It's a lot younger and the youngest players are the best ones. It's the ageing SB veterans who need to be replaced. Guys who were supposed to be the core players but who have done nothing.

Shane Ray is apparently one. Today, the former Broncos #1 draft pick was a healthy inactive. He didn't dress with the 46.

After the season they'll be clearing out some of the trash and it looks like Shane Ray might be one of those players who will be moving on. Bradley Roby, Pecko, Brandon Marshall, possibly others on defense. Most of the offense.

New QB in the draft. Right now that's looking more possible as they move up the draft board towards about tenth. Based on other teams' records they look to be picking no higher than eighth and probably no lower than 15th.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Leaving John Elway in charge of player personnel decisions would only solve HALF the problem with McDouchnozzle. He was simply one of those horrible human beings. A lying scheming, cheating weasel, just like his mentor Bill. Except that Bill has real talent.

Everyone talks about how brilliant all of Belichick's assistants are, and then they go somewhere and *poof* somehow that brilliance turns out to be inflated by having Brady and Belichick running that team.



McMoron is far, far worse than VJ. Your lack of perspective being right in the middle of this is blinding you to the obvious - McMoron was about the worst thing to happen to this franchise ever in terms of head coaching. He came, destroyed the team, and left them 1 1/2 years later with an utterly depleted roster devoid of talent, and having squandered boatloads of draft picks without getting much in return for most of them.

VJ leaves the team in better shape than when he came. It's a lot younger and the youngest players are the best ones. It's the ageing SB veterans who need to be replaced. Guys who were supposed to be the core players but who have done nothing.

Shane Ray is apparently one. Today, the former Broncos #1 draft pick was a healthy inactive. He didn't dress with the 46.

After the season they'll be clearing out some of the trash and it looks like Shane Ray might be one of those players who will be moving on. Bradley Roby, Pecko, Brandon Marshall, possibly others on defense. Most of the offense.

New QB in the draft. Right now that's looking more possible as they move up the draft board towards about tenth. Based on other teams' records they look to be picking no higher than eighth and probably no lower than 15th.

In terms of coaching McDaniels was a smart guy on game day. He knew how to manage a clock, run an offense, and has an extremely high football IQ. As Tned said, it's the OTHER stuff that McDumbo struggled with. McDumbo shipped off most of the talented offensive players in favor of guys that he could control. It was never his football knowledge that undid him, it was entirely his personality, or lack thereof.

Unfortunately, I think in avoiding a McDaniels, this franchise stumbled into his polar opposite in Vance Joseph: A Raheem Morris guy that can build relationships, sure, but lacks elite football IQ. VJ did still have control of this football team, but inevitably this team is going to lose to Oakland. What happens then? Will this team still come out Week 17 against the Chargers the way they played up to the competition earlier in the season?

And how much of VJ's "control" wasn't really just guys like Sanders and Harris that played around Manning holding their teammates accountable and leading by example? This team has slipped drastically without those two.

It's clear this team needs a new coach. But I don't want a McDaniels with high football IQ, but terrible leadership skills. I don't want another VJ, who is supposedly a "leader of men," that has terrible football IQ.

3 names I would love (in no particular order):
1. Pete Carmichael Jr. Saints Offensive Coordinator. Calls plays and has been around Sean Payton and Drew Brees long enough to know how a team should run.
2. John Harbaugh. Ravens Head Coach. If they do part ways, this guy is well connected enough to find top tier coordinators. Caldwell, Hue Jackson, Rex Ryan, Chuck Pagano are possibly the type of coordinators he could bring with him and the team wouldn't have to worry about them being poached.
3. Vic Fangio. Bears Defensive Coordinator. He has been waiting for his shot forever, but teams don't want to give him a shot for the same reason they avoided guys like Bruce Arians and Mike Zimmer.

Originally Posted by Freyaka

Down 4 you say? Half the secondary is injured? Let's take a field goal here, they'll never see it coming...

To quote bill ob.... "Good job Vance, ya dumb ....

Yea, with all those CBs out I couldn't believe he wasn't going to go for the win.

Originally Posted by Northman

Wait? What?

While Chubb has had a good year its not like he has made the Broncos a winning team this year either. I think you are processing this all wrong in terms of how you are comparing the players. all 4 QB's taken are rookies so who in their right mind actually believes they all would be Super Bowl contenders their first year? Do i need to point to Peyton Manning and John Elways first years record wise to prove my point? I would guess not. You cant say the rookie QB's suck just because their teams are not playoff bound and then try to elevate Chubb as the savior of the Denver Broncos. Thats a ridiculous take on your part. While im not totally sold on Rosen or Allen quite yet i do think Darnold and Mayfield have shown they can play at this level and given more experience and time will probably be very good QB's. Not too mention im sure it helps a lot that a certain guy named Von Miller is on the other side of the line to help Chubb be as good as he is.

I 100% mentioned that the guy we took also did not propel us to the playoffs.

Really talking about Darnold and Mayfield are pointless. We had 0 shot at them.

The real conversation is Rosen and Allen.

There is so much boom or bust with Allen and Rosen...just bust.

My point was more so about those that claim we should have drafted a guy and we would be better off than worthless Keenum. Allen and Rosen haven't remotely proven that yet but at least the guy we took has shown SOMETHING.

I do think we should have taken a guy but we made the right choice.

I would have been on board with taking a chance on Jackson at the end of the first. You take the most sure thing top 5.

Originally Posted by Rick

I 100% mentioned that the guy we took also did not propel us to the playoffs.

Really talking about Darnold and Mayfield are pointless. We had 0 shot at them.

The real conversation is Rosen and Allen.

There is so much boom or bust with Allen and Rosen...just bust.

My point was more so about those that claim we should have drafted a guy and we would be better off than worthless Keenum. Allen and Rosen haven't remotely proven that yet but at least the guy we took has shown SOMETHING.

I dont think the verdict is quite done yet on any of the QB's taken last year. Most QB's done even hit their stride until year 3. For all we know next year Chubb could fall back down to earth himself.

Originally Posted by Northman

I dont think the verdict is quite done yet on any of the QB's taken last year. Most QB's done even hit their stride until year 3. For all we know next year Chubb could fall back down to earth himself.

In a league where teams are trading up for Qb's more and more we lie and tell ourselves that we only had a shot at two of those QB's.

We lie, beautifully.

Originally Posted by VonDoom

VJ is now 11-19 as HC. McD was 11-17 at the time of his firing.

They had the same record at the point McD was fired. Since then he's lost two more games. McD was fired mid season for cheating, I think VJ gets to finish the year as he's not a complete racing cheating douche AND a bad coach. He's just a bad coach

Originally Posted by King87

In a league where teams are trading up for Qb's more and more we lie and tell ourselves that we only had a shot at two of those QB's.

We lie, beautifully.

It is a bit of a conundrum. On one hand some fans say they want to win as many games as possible but then also say the only way to get a franchise QB is within the top 3-5 picks but then when you are winning 6-8 games year you are never going to be picking top 5. So then where do you find the franchise QB? the reality is you just have to take chances (so as long as they are smart picks) until you get your guy. You may get him at number 10 or you may get him in the 3rd round but either way you cant be scared to pull the trigger. Denver's only problem when drafting QB's is they guys they have chose to take who are at best projects and not immediate talents.

Originally Posted by King87

In a league where teams are trading up for Qb's more and more we lie and tell ourselves that we only had a shot at two of those QB's.

We lie, beautifully.

You are kidding yourself if you think we had a shot at Mayfield and it was a VERY minute shot at Darnold. We would have needed spot 2, and would have had to sell ours and the neighbors farm to do that, if the Giants were even willing as they wanted thier guy...

Only guy I would have gone all in on was Mayfield. I would have taken Darnold if he fell to us.