Thread: Fire Vance Joseph

There is definitely disfunction in the head office. I think Ellis is the one that should go, not Elway.

I seem to recall that Ellis should not be involved with running the team and leading the trust as it was a conflict of interest just a few months ago. The guy is a loser.

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

The rumor mill is that Ellis has also finally become disenchanted with VJ, and change is required going forward, hopefully good news. However the same rumor mill is that Shanahan will not be the coach in Denver as long as Ellis is in charge. I think people forget how badly it went down when Shanny was fired after his refusal to sack slowik at Joe Ellis's request. Those fences are burned and its why Joe wouldn't allow Elway to make that move. Elway made the only reasonable decision to keep some continuity rather than go after the scrap pile for a new HC. I actually wont be surprised at all to see Both Elway and VJ gone, after the current story that just came about.....Ellis is the shitty puppet master and doesn't like being called out.....

I see this playing out this way too, especially now since it is all out there. One, it hurts wormtongue's chances to hold the trust together enabling his continued ability to steal the team as an unvested defacto owner. Two, the fans are going to turn on Ellis and put pressure on to bring back Shanahan, something he wanted no part of, and is now the obvious obstacle. All that after letting fan favorite Wade Phillips leave over money. Three, a bad relationship with Elway has just had gasoline dumped all over it. Both are trying to push their version of events. That usually only happens when heads are about to roll.

The league may have to intervene in this mess.

Originally Posted by DenBronx

There is definitely disfunction in the head office. I think Ellis is the one that should go, not Elway.

Ellis is one-third of the trust and the manager of the business side of operations. He’s not going anywhere.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Ellis is one-third of the trust and the manager of the business side of operations. He’s not going anywhere.

That is still up for debate in court. On what grounds was Beth kicked to the curb? She seems to satisfy the criteria, other than taking away Ellis fake ownership. And that also assumes the trust holds, that is also being contested.

I really hadn't paid much attention to any of this before now.

We may not do playoffs, but we sure do drama!

Quote Originally Posted by Elevation inc View Post
The rumor mill is that Ellis has also finally become disenchanted with VJ, and change is required going forward, hopefully good news. However the same rumor mill is that Shanahan will not be the coach in Denver as long as Ellis is in charge. I think people forget how badly it went down when Shanny was fired after his refusal to sack slowik at Joe Ellis's request. Those fences are burned and its why Joe wouldn't allow Elway to make that move. Elway made the only reasonable decision to keep some continuity rather than go after the scrap pile for a new HC. I actually wont be surprised at all to see Both Elway and VJ gone, after the current story that just came about.....Ellis is the shitty puppet master and doesn't like being called out.....

If Joe Ellis got rid of Elway, he'd be next. An owner can fire a GM and brave the fan outrage. Joe Ellis as fiduciary of the Bowlen Family Trust cannot do that, not when they are facing multiple lawsuits.

The one thing that could easily sink the Trust would be to start hemorrhaging money. And that is what will happen if they lose the trust of the fans so that businesses stop buying those luxury suites and fans stop buying tickets and going to games and paying for parking and concessions.

The average fans spend over $100 at a game, not including the price of the ticket. 15,000 no shows = $1.5m a game in lost revenue. Ellis won't be in charge very long if that starts happening. An owner doesn't have to care if the fans don't show. Just look at what the Raiders are doing to their fan base!

But, the Trust can't act like that. So, Ellis would be insane to fire Elway. Elway is his shield against legal and business fallout.

Originally Posted by Tbolt

That is still up for debate in court. On what grounds was Beth kicked to the curb? She seems to satisfy the criteria, other than taking away Ellis fake ownership. And that also assumes the trust holds, that is also being contested.

I really hadn't paid much attention to any of this before now.

We may not do playoffs, but we sure do drama!

Ellis doesn’t own the team, nor is his management fake. It’s exactly what Pat Bowlen specified. I think the ownership issue is going to draw out in the courts for possibly years, especially as long as Bowlen is alive because he specified that the team be run by that trust. If he dies things probably change, but again, this lawsuit could stretch out for a long time. I wouldn’t expect anything to be resolved this offseason on that side of the management equation.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Ellis doesn’t own the team, nor is his management fake. It’s exactly what Pat Bowlen specified. I think the ownership issue is going to draw out in the courts for possibly years, especially as long as Bowlen is alive because he specified that the team be run by that trust. If he dies things probably change, but again, this lawsuit could stretch out for a long time. I wouldn’t expect anything to be resolved this offseason on that side of the management equation.

I am saying that Ellis is behaving as the pretend owner. His management position allows him to act as the owner would, especially given the trusts preferred candidate is 12 years away from being able to assume that mantle. Pretty convenient for the guy that doesn't want to give up fake ownership. And yes, through the courts, this mess could take years. That's why the league may have to step in.

Here is the trust, btw: Broncos president/CEO Joe Ellis, team counsel Rich Slivka and Denver attorney Mary Kelly

Originally Posted by Tbolt

I am saying that Ellis is behaving as the pretend owner. His management position allows him to act as the owner would, especially given the trusts preferred candidate is 12 years away from being able to assume that mantle. Pretty convenient for the guy that doesn't want to give up fake ownership. And yes, through the courts, this mess could take years. That's why the league may have to step in.

We may not like moves or decisions he’s made, but I don’t think Ellis is doing anything nefarious or malicious.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

We may not like moves or decisions he’s made, but I don’t think Ellis is doing anything nefarious or malicious.

Ummmmm...yeah... I think that benefit of the doubt has sailed.

Discredited Beth...because and I quote Wormtongue "She knows why".

May have taken advantage of Pat's condition leading to his position (at the forefront of Bill Bowlen's claims).

Is dictating football moves (definitely overstepping his bounds here).

Who benefits by the trust enduring the most? Joe 'I don't own the team but can act like I do' Ellis.

Originally Posted by Tbolt

Discredited Beth...because and I quote Wormtongue "She knows why".

I have no reason to have an opinion on one side or the other of this confrontation. Maybe Beth was bad at her job?

Originally Posted by Tbolt

May have taken advantage of Pat's condition leading to his position (at the forefront of Bill Bowlen's claims).

I don’t see any evidence of this.

Originally Posted by Tbolt

Is dictating football moves (definitely overstepping his bounds here).

He’s the CEO of the company, and was before Bowlen surrendered ownership. He’s run the day-to-day operations of the team for 10 years and has been a key executive since 1983. That is not overstepping his bounds.

Originally Posted by Tbolt

Who benefits by the trust enduring the most? Joe 'I don't own the team but can act like I do' Ellis.

This is quite the assumption.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Here is the trust, btw: Broncos president/CEO Joe Ellis, team counsel Rich Slivka and Denver attorney Mary Kelly, Message Board Elf Mo Gingerpube

Mo I have trust in you.

Originally Posted by BeefStew25

Mo I have trust in you.

Why?

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

I have no reason to have an opinion on one side or the other of this confrontation. Maybe Beth was bad at her job?



I don’t see any evidence of this.



He’s the CEO of the company, and was before Bowlen surrendered ownership. He’s run the day-to-day operations of the team for 10 years and has been a key executive since 1983. That is not overstepping his bounds.



This is quite the assumption.

I am stating what has come out/been reported. You don't have to like it, but making up your own facts to support Ellis is just changing the narrative.

At no point was her "being bad at her job" one of the criteria for consideration. And by whos standards? This in part goes to the rift amongst the children from the first marriage and the second. This will get messy.

Bill Bowlen has brought a suit alleging that the trust itself is illegitimate. Again, that will likely take forever to be argued in court (and a very difficult case to win).

Elway was given the title and apparent authority to make all football decisions. So, yes, that would be overstepping his bounds. You overstate Ellis years of service greatly.

Ellis CLEARLY, above all others, benefits the most from the trust enduring. That is not an assumption. You can argue it is an unfortunate necessity, but the facts are the facts.