Thread: Fire Vance Joseph

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

If Elway is going to fire him, this is the time to do it.

Yup. It's pretty clear at this point that coaching is now costing us games, whether it's scheme, attitude, or both. If we can get rid of John Fox one season removed from a Super Bowl, we can get rid of Vance for all the recent issues.

A game like this was honestly more compelling evidence to fire him then had we gotten blown out. If we get blown out, he can argue it's more a talent thing than his coaching. But this was a game in which we were clearly the better team and the loss can directly be tied to two awful decisions at the end of each half. He just needs to get one of those two decisions right and we win, and he screwed up both. Can't pin it on Keenum either because he played his best game of the year. And especially after seeing DT's comments you know current players must feel the same way. I just don't see how you keep him after that.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

A game like this was honestly more compelling evidence to fire him then had we gotten blown out. If we get blown out, he can argue it's more a talent thing than his coaching. But this was a game in which we were clearly the better team and the loss can directly be tied to two awful decisions at the end of each half. He just needs to get one of those two decisions right and we win, and he screwed up both. Can't pin it on Keenum either because he played his best game of the year. And especially after seeing DT's comments you know current players must feel the same way. I just don't see how you keep him after that.

It was a series of decisions, but close enough.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

It was a series of decisions, but close enough.

I feel like it was two pretty clear cut decisions. One, to kick the 62 yard FG, which basically just guarantees 3 points the other way, and the other to not use a timeout and try to gain more yards at the end of the game. Both just objectively awful decisions, either of which would likely have flipped the result of the game if done differently.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

I feel like it was two pretty clear cut decisions. One, to kick the 62 yard FG, which basically just guarantees 3 points the other way, and the other to not use a timeout and try to gain more yards at the end of the game. Both just objectively awful decisions, either of which would likely have flipped the result of the game if done differently.

Those two stand out, but they only stand out because of several other decisions leading up to them. I won't argue those two are critical, but it's relevant to me to note that it wasn't *only* two bad decisions. It was a series, several miscues that culminated in those two decisions. That way we aren't so results-oriented about them. If those FGs happen to fall, then you don't really mind the 'bad decisions'. The thing for me is that there were several decisions that put them in that spot to begin with.

Originally Posted by Davii

Really? I see an undisciplined group of guys. I see a group of football players that shoot themselves in the foot. I see a talented bunch of guys that consistently make the same mistakes week in and week out. I see young guys come in and play but not improve, I see an OL that makes the exact same mistakes every week.

All of that, IMO, poings straight at their coaching.

I would agree that creating discipline and recourse for poor play in this particular area would probably go a long way to helping the problem. But when your OL has been devoid of talent (for the most part) for 5 years...and the only two guys you could actually rely on are now done for the season...it's tough to start giving other guys a chance when the starters screw up. Because the "other guys" are now your starters.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

If Elway is going to fire him, this is the time to do it.

Sure...the bye week makes the most sense, but at this point...why bother? Season is pretty much a wash. If you make a change, the interim will be an internal guy and that doesn't change play calling, OL injuries, poor QB play, etc. May as well just ride out the season with VJ and wait until Black Monday. In the meantime, focus on draft, free agency preparation and getting more play time and touches for the young guys that will actually be here during the "rebuild".

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I would agree that creating discipline and recourse for poor play in this particular area would probably go a long way to helping the problem. But when your OL has been devoid of talent (for the most part) for 5 years...and the only two guys you could actually rely on are now done for the season...it's tough to start giving other guys a chance when the starters screw up. Because the "other guys" are now your starters.

And the 8 weeks leading up to today?

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Sure...the bye week makes the most sense, but at this point...why bother? Season is pretty much a wash. If you make a change, the interim will be an internal guy and that doesn't change play calling, OL injuries, poor QB play, etc. May as well just ride out the season with VJ and wait until Black Monday. In the meantime, focus on draft, free agency preparation and getting more play time and touches for the young guys that will actually be here during the "rebuild".

Except what message does that send to those same guys that will still be here? Suck and you can ride it out for two years?

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Sure...the bye week makes the most sense, but at this point...why bother? Season is pretty much a wash. If you make a change, the interim will be an internal guy and that doesn't change play calling, OL injuries, poor QB play, etc. May as well just ride out the season with VJ and wait until Black Monday. In the meantime, focus on draft, free agency preparation and getting more play time and touches for the young guys that will actually be here during the "rebuild".

I read an opinion piece at DP, and the writer stated if Elway felt there was chance, he would of fired Vance after the Chiefs or Jets game. Don’t know. If Joseph isn’t gone during the bye, then folks should accept he’ll be around til the end.

Originally Posted by Davii

Except what message does that send to those same guys that will still be here? Suck and you can ride it out for two years?

I don't think that is message at all. Taking a step back from that, what benefits are there in firing Joseph? Does anyone think for a second that whoever the interim coach is, will be the next head coach? Highly unlikely. Had this been done a few weeks ago, then maybe it would have made sense. Maybe the close losses to the Rams, Chiefs and Texans are wins and we're 6-3. But right now we are 3-6 and the playoffs are a dream. I just don't see the advantage or the message a firing right now makes.

Originally Posted by Davii

And the 8 weeks leading up to today?

Again...if a change had been made prior to today, then I would totally understand it. But the ship to get players disciplined in time to make a run has sailed. Essentially, we've passed the point of no return. So, what advantage does it make today?

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I don't think that is message at all. Taking a step back from that, what benefits are there in firing Joseph? Does anyone think for a second that whoever the interim coach is, will be the next head coach? Highly unlikely. Had this been done a few weeks ago, then maybe it would have made sense. Maybe the close losses to the Rams, Chiefs and Texans are wins and we're 6-3. But right now we are 3-6 and the playoffs are a dream. I just don't see the advantage or the message a firing right now makes.

Zero advantage, so no change in keeping him as that also does nothing for us now or into the future as he’s certainly gone at season’s end.

But message? How about if you continually make the same colossal mistakes at the basics of your position you will be gone. Improve or be cut.

We’re creating a terrible culture here by accepting mediocrity and lack of improvement. IMO

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Again...if a change had been made prior to today, then I would totally understand it. But the ship to get players disciplined in time to make a run has sailed. Essentially, we've passed the point of no return. So, what advantage does it make today?

And keeping him gives us what advantage? Are we making a run with him?

We’re one step closer to 9-7 Davii!!