Thread: Fire Vance Joseph

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Yeah, it seems like an 80/20 to me right now, 80% he is canned. I meant about the voice of reason before the mob.

I'm not saying I've got something that the mob doesn't know. We all know what we got here. Let's not pretend that firing the HC means much more than about what we got now. Unless we hit the coaching lotto. I'm not a lotto guy.

What do we have though? Its so easy for teams to be able to turn around year after year so im not sure why replacing VJ couldnt solve that. I mean, you have admitted to being a pessimist about it so i guess there is that but for me i would actually have new hope with a coaching change.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

In a league where outcomes can swing wildly from year to year, I don't think firing a below-average coach is akin to playing the lottery.

That's not to say I think this team is anywhere near ready to compete or will next year, it's just to say that it's time for change at the head coach position, and I don't think it's as risky as saying it's akin to the lottery.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Beef is just pointing out that even the greatest minds, the most obvious slam-dunk hires, can turn out to be poor first time head coaches.

/aside...Damn Quentin Nelson is EVERYWHERE!!!

He is a guard - his impact on the game is minimal. I'm glad Elway wasn't stupid enough to draft him given our needs.

Or, to say it another way, there are about five rookies I'd easily take over him, even if they're worse than him, because of his position.

Even for a bunch of grown men who have become maddeningly accustomed to the melancholy atmosphere, the losing locker room was a tad more solemn than usual Sunday night.

It seems all but certain Vance Joseph will be dismissed as the Broncos’ head coach. His players didn’t know this for sure, but they sensed it.

“All I can say is, I’ve got a ton of respect for VJ," said defensive end Derek Wolfe. “He’s a player’s guy. He’s always engaging with the players. He’ll show you love and is always pushing you to be great and he’s always got your great.

“I wish the best for him, regardless of what happens. I don’t know what’s going to happen. You gotta win. And unfortunately, it always falls on the head guy."

Joseph is expected to meet Monday with John Elway – as they did last year when the Broncos’ general manager decided, after sleeping on it, to retain his head coach for a second season.

rest - https://www.9news.com/article/sports...8-9418d87fd0d5

Originally Posted by BeefStew25

Hawg is how do I say it.... styling.

I have three gimmicks - self loathing, self deprecation, and the style umbrella of sub-gimmicks. This is gimmick infringement.

Originally Posted by King87

No. Marvin Lewis at one point was a leader of men. He tore up half the locker room in 2003 and they went 8-8 with bad QB's until Palmer ready. Then he lost control of the drafting (he wasn't great) and Mike Brown drafted guys like Odell Thurman, Chris Henry (may he rest in peace), etc. who were clearly elite talents (Odell was the top MLB prospect in since Ray Lewis and CH was the number one WR that draft who fell because of issues off the field) but torubled, which is why they're there. The result was a wonderful 2005 season and losing a chunk of the roster to suspensions the next two years.

Or, to say it shorter - I would be a liar if I said ML didn't have, at least at one point, a strong point as a coach. He was also a coordinator for the 2000's Ravens defense, so he had success there. VJ struggled as a DC.

I think Marv Lewis is the kind of coach VJ can be. The point you make about playoff losses is strong.

But a head coach is one man. He needs other pieces around him to flourish--ownership, management, quarterback, and some quality pieces.

I really, really think ownership matters. Why don't we redirect our ire at VJ to our ire at fractured ownership?

Originally Posted by King87

I have three gimmicks - self loathing, self deprecation, and the style umbrella of sub-gimmicks. This is gimmick infringement.

Your dumb

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

I think Marv Lewis is the kind of coach VJ can be. The point you make about playoff losses is strong.

But a head coach is one man. He needs other pieces around him to flourish--ownership, management, quarterback, and some quality pieces.

I really, really think ownership matters. Why don't we redirect our ire at VJ to our ire at fractured ownership?

Right now Botox is circumventing the cap.

Originally Posted by Northman

What do we have though? Its so easy for teams to be able to turn around year after year so im not sure why replacing VJ couldnt solve that. I mean, you have admitted to being a pessimist about it so i guess there is that but for me i would actually have new hope with a coaching change.

Remember when Shanny would keep bringing in new DCs each year? That's what this feels like.

Welp. I said my stuff and know where my Broncos brothers and sisters are coming from. What we got ain't good enough, they need to fix it.

Originally Posted by King87

Older coaches are more likely to struggle to change. Youth is a big bonus. Look at guys like Shanahan and Kubiak - they don't evolve much. Andy Reid, that type of style adaptation is rare.

If it's a primo retread, hope that it's a top tier one. But I doubt they'd come here. Why? We have little talent and Keenum at QB.

Youth is fine. But VJ is young. Raheem Morris was young. Lane Kiffin. Mangini. Etc. Youth isn't everything. Just be entertaining.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Fair.

I'm so pessimistic regarding our candidates and job attractiveness.

Job is decent. You have the most talented pass rush duo since...Von and Ware. You have a handful of nice offensive linemen. RBs and WRs need, what, a FA supplmement, a draft or two to round them out? You have a great corner. Here's how I flip it - Tampa actually has great amounts of talented players than we do. But the elite talent ain't the same and their division is also...a god damned feeding frenzy. We have ownership issues. They have an owner...who will sign an former pro bowler and fires and hires more coaches than we do, actually.

This is a solid job. Not great. Not awful.

Originally Posted by BeefStew25

Right now Botox is circumventing the cap.

Yep.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Remember when Shanny would keep bringing in new DCs each year? That's what this feels like.

Welp. I said my stuff and know where my Broncos brothers and sisters are coming from. What we got ain't good enough, they need to fix it.

Shanny had his faults no doubt, but he also had won 2 SB's and still managed to get the Broncos to the playoffs on a regular basis. That accounts for something that VJ simply doesnt have on his resume. If i saw something in VJ that i thought was progress i might agree with you. I simply dont, sorry man.

Originally Posted by King87

The real ugly truth is that if we had a better GM, at least in this area, it wouldn't be like hitting the lotto. Elway probably knows he's not the best at this, which is why he wanted Shanahan.

However, last year you and I agreed to retain VJ because the team didn't need to keep firing people and being a carousel. He needed a second chance.

He got it - and he failed. Accountability has to mean something, too.

Man...when it's the Indy 500 and they give you the keys to a Nissan Leaf...is it really failing to finish in the third quartile?

Originally Posted by Northman

Shanny had his faults no doubt, but he also had won 2 SB's

With a bonered Bowlen, John Elway, some cap shenanigans, etc.