Thread: What will Joe Thomas Cost?

Originally Posted by Cugel

I thought you were an engineer? "The special teams are leaking like a sieve captain! I dunna-Know if I can fix her in time before the Chiefs crush us like a grape! And we're facing an imminent breach of the entire OL! they're leaking coolant all over the place. If this continues I might have to jettison the entire season! "

Keptin, de Chefs wessells are........are unarmed sird. Kin we bunt?

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Garrett Boles is definitely not the problem.

Yeah, hes not the problem at all. I LOVE Bolles.

Originally Posted by WARHORSE

Yeah, hes not the problem at all. I LOVE Bolles.

Bolles has the "sweet feet" of Ryan Clady and the nastiness of Gary Zimmerman.
He just might become the best LT we've had. And that's saying something.

Clady had great feet but Bolles are even better. If Bolles puts on about 20 pounds of muscle on (the right way) in the offseason he will be the Boselli type.

Even now you know he doesnt have the strength of other marquee LTs and yet he handles DEs with pure ability. Strong hands, strength, balance and equilibrium.

LOVE this kid. Loyal to the bone.

Originally Posted by Cugel

No we don't. A LT would enable Bolles to switch to the Right side where he would at least be a T. Allen Barbre is a guard playing T and Watson is hurt again, like every other year he's played in the NFL. Whey they gambled on him being healthy for the first time since ever is a mystery.

The problem is: "where are you going to get a starting LT?" The good news is that the trade deadline is this Friday and after that all the fans asking for a trade and speculating about a trade will die off. There is no trade happening because the few teams with decent starting quality Ts are not giving them up.

If you didn't get a good T in FA then good luck to you!

That would be great, but our QB would still suck.

Originally Posted by slim

That would be great, but our QB would still suck.

Oh, contrare we'd have a QB who might be mediocre! That was the hope anyway.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Oh, contrare we'd have a QB who might be mediocre! That was the hope anyway.

Is it bad we would all take mediocre at this point?

Originally Posted by Freyaka

Is it bad we would all take mediocre at this point?

Well outside of a few top 10 QBs like Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers, there's nobody who can simply take the team on his back and go out and win games. You either have an elite Qb or a mediocre QB or a QB who needs to be replaced.

If you have a mediocre QB that means he has some good games and some bad games. If you build a strong team around him, then maybe you can win a championship. The Ravens did that with Joe Flacco having some good games in the playoffs. But, Joe Flacco has proven that he's not a consistent top 10 QB who can take the Ravens deep in the playoffs every year despite having a flawed team.

That was what the Broncos were hoping for with Siemian, and with a better offensive line he might actually appear to be that kind of QB.

What he certainly is not is a Peyton Manning type of QB who makes his OL look a lot better than they are.
Peyton actually won an AFC Championship with Chris Clark as his LT after Clady got hurt in 2013.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Well outside of a few top 10 QBs like Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers, there's nobody who can simply take the team on his back and go out and win games. You either have an elite Qb or a mediocre QB or a QB who needs to be replaced.

If you have a mediocre QB that means he has some good games and some bad games. If you build a strong team around him, then maybe you can win a championship. The Ravens did that with Joe Flacco having some good games in the playoffs. But, Joe Flacco has proven that he's not a consistent top 10 QB who can take the Ravens deep in the playoffs every year despite having a flawed team.

That was what the Broncos were hoping for with Siemian, and with a better offensive line he might actually appear to be that kind of QB.

What he certainly is not is a Peyton Manning type of QB who makes his OL look a lot better than they are.
Peyton actually won an AFC Championship with Chris Clark as his LT after Clady got hurt in 2013.

Well, the Broncos have no Chris Clarks this year. They need to put Barbre back at LG and just keep a TE in
to do some chipping. That takes a target away from Siemian, but at least he won't get killed, hopefully.
Siemian is simply going to have to regain the form he exhibited in the first three games this year, and a
little bit of protection will go a long way toward that.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Joe Staley isnt happening either. Kyle Shanahan loves Joe and wants to build around him. You can't have all rookies and draft picks. At some point you have to start stockpiling good players and he's one of the best.

True, they suck, but you have to start somewhere, and they have a boat-load of draft picks in coming years and will acquire more this off-season. NO way they are making a trade in the middle of the season.

And every team in the NFL knows the Broncos are desperate - so what price would they extract for a player like that? Multiple first round picks in all likelihood. Why not? If somebody is desperate, perhaps they will pay an exorbitant price. If not, you weren't looking to trade your starting LT anyway.

Let us be honest. There is no help coming to this OL. They should have done something in the off-season, preferably in FA prior to the draft. Too late now. You made your bed Elway. Now you get to lie in it and suck all season long!

I generally agree Cugs, but really what OL help was available this last offseason that we didn't chase or missed out on?

Originally Posted by LawDog

I generally agree Cugs, but really what OL help was available this last offseason that we didn't chase or missed out on?

Well, there were these guys, all of whom got huge money:

Andrew Whitworth, OT, Bengals. Age: 35.

Signed with Rams (3 years, $36 million)

Andrew Whitworth would be rated at five stars if it weren't for his age. He's been one of the top left tackles in the NFL for a very long time. However, he just turned 35 and could begin to decline at some point in the near future.

Well, Whitworth has played well for the Rams who are now 5-2 and leading their division. The Bengals meanwhile have fallen off the map without him. Whitworth was the best LT in FA last season and is playing like it this season. Alfred Williams was watching him at a SB party with an NFL scout and said "he can't even get out of his stance." The scout turned to him and said "Yes, but he still makes every play." There's no arguing that.

Russell Okung, OT, Broncos. Age: 28.

Signed with Chargers (4 years, $53 million)

Russell Okung is certainly one of the most physically gifted left tackles in the NFL, but he definitely has an extensive injury history that is weighing his ranking down. Okung did, however, play in all 16 games this past season, and was one of the few bright spots on Denver's offensive line.

Everybody was talking about how horrible Okung was, and how it's much better that we got rid of him. But, he played pretty well against Denver's defense in LA last weekend, and Watson (predictably since he's missed over 1/2 his NFL career) was injured and out. If the Broncos had either signed Whitworth or kept Okung, they wouldn't be in this mess starting Allen Barbre - a GUARD not a RT. And they wouldn't be facing the prospect of 3-6 start to the season despite having the #1 NFL defense.

So, how bad does Okung look now? IF they still had him, they could have moved Bolles to RT and they might be adequate. Not great, but adequate looks pretty damn good when your offensive line is beyond HORRIBLE and the team can't even score 1 single point. Adequate might mean Trevor would have a chance to be, well not good, but adequate himself.

And with this defense, that would give you a chance.

Ricky Wagner, OT, Ravens. Age: 27.

Signed with Lions

Ricky Wagner looked lost when taking over for Michael Oher in the 2013 premiere. He's come a long way since then. The former fifth-round pick played very well at right tackle this past season and should be able to obtain a substantial contract as a result.

Kelvin Beachum, OT, Jaguars. Age: 28.
Signed with Jets

Kelvin Beachum is a talented left tackle who would be rated a bit higher than this if he were healthy. Beachum tore his ACL in 2015 and struggled this past season because he wasn't 100 percent. However, he should provide solid value this spring. He figures to be closer to 100 percent now that he's two years removed from his knee injury. Plus, he's only 28. Beachum could be one of the better signings this offseason.

Riley Reiff, OT, Lions. Age: 28.

Signed with Vikings

Riley Reiff was moved to right tackle this season after the Lions spent their 2016 first-round pick on Taylor Decker. Reiff has been a pretty average blocker throughout his career despite being a former first-round selection himself.

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Read more at http://walterfootball.com/freeagents...2lKeZlWHThC.99

HOw good would Reilly Reiff look at RT for the Broncos instead of the inevitably injured Menelik Watson. Elway went for the cheap trick and it blew up in his face.

I think issue with Okung was that weird contract he negotiated that was very team friendly in year one, but was pretty expensive should the team pick up the second year option ($13 mil I think). That wasn't money that Elway was willing to spend for a middle + quality vet. Same with Whitworth, too much risk for the cost of signing him was probably the eval.

As for the others, they would have been better options than what they have. Especially when you consider they are paying basically nothing at the QB position and should have the $ to invest in the line...

Sigh.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Well, the Broncos have no Chris Clarks this year. They need to put Barbre back at LG and just keep a TE in
to do some chipping. That takes a target away from Siemian, but at least he won't get killed, hopefully.
Siemian is simply going to have to regain the form he exhibited in the first three games this year, and a
little bit of protection will go a long way toward that.

What happened to all that depth you were telling me about?

Originally Posted by LawDog

I think issue with Okung was that weird contract he negotiated that was very team friendly in year one, but was pretty expensive should the team pick up the second year option ($13 mil I think). That wasn't money that Elway was willing to spend for a middle + quality vet. Same with Whitworth, too much risk for the cost of signing him was probably the eval.

As for the others, they would have been better options than what they have. Especially when you consider they are paying basically nothing at the QB position and should have the $ to invest in the line...

Sigh.

The problem you and other fans had with Okung was thinking that he sucked, and therefore the Broncos should not "overpay". Well, I argued that Okung didn't suck THAT bad and the alternatives were all worse.

Well, I was right wasn't I? There's mediocre, and then there's pretty bad, but then there's truly horrible. And truly horrible is where the Broncos OL is now. Sadly, they are individually decent people, but they are not playing well together and Allen Barbre is not a G, while Stephenson even they have concluded is worthless.

I also pointed out that you're going to pay one way or another. You don't pay in the NFL for pure talent. You pay for relative scarcity. There are very few really good QBs, so they get more and more every year - about $25M is the franchise tag price now.

Well, RT is scarce so even rather mediocre to not quite mediocre, but not horrible, i.e. serviceable RTs get contracts like the ones I quoted. Get used to it because that is not going to change!

Unless the Broncos use a #1 or #2 pick on a T next season and give him a couple of years to develop (Wouldn't be surprised), then they are going to have to "overpay" for Ts cause they are scarce.

Because throwing away a potential SB defense because your offensive line is putrid? What was worse for the Broncos than that?

Originally Posted by Freyaka

For the last time...Thomas isn't happening.

Joe Staley though...

He’s not even the best T on his team.

Cordy Glenn, though.