Thread: Nba 2017-18

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

Absolutely, and Jordan always had a crew. Pippen was one of the 3 or 4 best players in the league at the time. Rodman was the best rebounder in the league at the time. I don’t think LeBron has played with anyone of their caliber. Bosh and Wade were good, but I would take Rodman and Pippen any day of the week.

One could even argue Horace Grant was a more dominant player than Love because of his impact defensively.

Jordan never had a great scorer next to him, though. When Pippen got hurt in game six against the Jazz, Jordan had to jack up all kinds of shots to get his 40 some odd points. You know why? Because Jordan took almost all the scoring burden himself. Pippen was a good scorer, not a great one. In regards to caliber, Kyrie Irving was a dominant scorer, Wade was still great, Bosh as a third scoring option is wonderful, and when he didn't have to play center (a sacrifice he made) he could get you all kinds of points.

This was the first time LBJ never had a great team around him since his first stint in Cleveland. And let's be fair here, LBJ is one of the reasons why Kyrie left.

Jordan, in today's era? His points per game is going up, and he already had the highest average in league history.

I'm tired of you dissing Jordan. I grew up in Illinois in the 90's dammit! This shit is personal!

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

So has anyone changed anyone's mind yet?

Either one is the GOAT.

But we love to have these damn debates. I think I could take either guy and win a bunch of rings in any era, and what the supporting cast would/could be is what would dictate the selection.

I can't wait to watch LBJ drive and then kick it out to Slim Reaper or Curry next year.

Originally Posted by King87

Either one is the GOAT.

But we love to have these damn debates. I think I could take either guy and win a bunch of rings in any era, and what the supporting cast would/could be is what would dictate the selection.

Exactly. The only people who are wrong in this debate are the ones who say "it's not even close" or that one isn't in the other's league. Those people are mouth breathing fools who should be ignored. If it weren't close it wouldn't be debated as hotly as it is.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Exactly. The only people who are wrong in this debate are the ones who say "it's not even close" or that one isn't in the other's league. Those people are mouth breathing fools who should be ignored. If it weren't close it wouldn't be debated as hotly as it is.

Truth be told, they could play on the same team with LBJ being the Magic Johnson type and Jordan being the dominant scorer. FFS, Jordan was a good (not great) passer and those two doing pick and rolls at the top of the key would be a nightmare. They both can shoot. They are both gods going to the bucket. At that point you could have two JR's out there and it might not matter.

I expect people to come to this thread and apologize for their disrespect to Kevin Durant.

Buff, you start.

Are we bonding here Wave? I find myself agreeing with almost everything you’ve said in this debate.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

Are we bonding here Wave? I find myself agreeing with almost everything you’ve said in this debate.

Everyone is bonded with my style bro! It's why he's the leader of this message board!

I get the sentiments around Wade, but he had Shaq, who is one of the few to win titles with two different teams.

IMO, the only thing he did better than Pippen was score. Pippen was a better defender, distributor, and rebounder. He was probably the best perimeter defender in the NBA at the time, and he was essentially the Bulls point guard. He almost always rendered the other team’s perimeter scorer ineffective. He also took the Bulls to the conference finals without Jordan.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

Are we bonding here Wave? I find myself agreeing with almost everything you’ve said in this debate.

All I ever try to do in any debate is use common sense and not emotion. I feel like in the MJ-LeBron too many people argue from an emotional perspective than a logical one. You either have people nostalgic for MJ who refuse to ever accept that anyone will ever be in his league, and you have younger folks who only really know LeBron and don't have the historical perspective to compare the two. Then you have the complete morons who add nothing to the debate but "but ringz!!1!11!"

Using any objective measure, you're pretty much splitting hairs comparing the two. I personally lean LeBron, but they are absolutely neck and neck. I just can't take the people seriously who say "it's not even close!"

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

All I ever try to do in any debate is use common sense and not emotion. I feel like in the MJ-LeBron too many people argue from an emotional perspective than a logical one. You either have people nostalgic for MJ who refuse to ever accept that anyone will ever be in his league, and you have younger folks who only really know LeBron and don't have the historical perspective to compare the two. Then you have the complete morons who add nothing to the debate but "but ringz!!1!11!"

Using any objective measure, you're pretty much splitting hairs comparing the two. I personally lean LeBron, but they are absolutely neck and neck. I just can't take the people seriously who say "it's not even close!"

I agree on all accounts.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

I get the sentiments around Wade, but he had Shaq, who is one of the few to win titles with two different teams.

IMO, the only thing he did better than Pippen was score. Pippen was a better defender, distributor, and rebounder. He was probably the best perimeter defender in the NBA at the time, and he was essentially the Bulls point guard. He almost always rendered the other team’s perimeter scorer ineffective. He also took the Bulls to the conference finals without Jordan.

Wade was one of the better defensive guards in the game and set records for shot blocking. He was also in his prime years up there in steals. Pippen was more versatile, but that's because he plays forward, where he can occasionally guard and the one and the two, as well as the three and the four. I don't think we can hold that against guards.

Shaq was still really good, but that just means he had a running mate. All champsionship teams have a running mate. Pippen was Jordan's. Wade had Shaq. Steph had Klay and then Durant had Steph. Bird had that other white guy whose name I always forget. Magic had a certain big boy styling on people, and then Worthy. Shaq had Kobe, and then Kobe had Gasol. To hold that against Wade is pretty harsh.

As far as rebounder - Wade is considered one of the best rebounders at his position. Again, it's hard to hold raw numbers without that context because Pippen was what, five inches taller? As a matter of fact, I don't think Pippen was a better rebounding forward than Wade was a rebounding guard.

We saw what happened when Pippen had to be the man - although to be fair to him when MJ was gone he didnt' have a viable second option.

God, I love talking basketball.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

All I ever try to do in any debate is use common sense and not emotion. I feel like in the MJ-LeBron too many people argue from an emotional perspective than a logical one. You either have people nostalgic for MJ who refuse to ever accept that anyone will ever be in his league, and you have younger folks who only really know LeBron and don't have the historical perspective to compare the two. Then you have the complete morons who add nothing to the debate but "but ringz!!1!11!"

Using any objective measure, you're pretty much splitting hairs comparing the two. I personally lean LeBron, but they are absolutely neck and neck. I just can't take the people seriously who say "it's not even close!"

That used to be me. I lean Jordan because I, in my opinion, am won over by the massive amounts of scoring titles, first team all-defense, and DPOTY. I also think, and this is opinion, to put up MJ's numbers in an era with great skilled big men and still rough rules that favored the defense, means that MJ's stats are even more impressive.

But, LBJ does LBJ shit. And he's breaking MJ's records. Some of them are just more along the lines of "look, MJ and LBJ had god numbers and LBJ is going to the finals more, so of course he's breaking them," but some of them are just god tier status, context be damned.

It's also worth noting that Kareem was on both of these guy's levels, but he was considered to be such a ***** and edgy that he gets left out. Look at those numbers that guy had - god diggity dayum.

scottie pippen career stats: 16.1 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 5.2 APG, 2.0 SPG, .8 BPG

dwayne wade career stats: 22.5 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.6 SPG, .9 BPG

yes, pippen has better rebounding numbers-- he's also 4 inches taller, and played a front court position. . . but wade's overall game is very close, and i think you're significantly underselling the value of being a dominant scorer in the NBA. . . wade was finals MVP in '06, and was probably just as important as bron the heatles' first couple seasons. . . scottie was a sidekick-- wade was a co-star. . . obviously JMO, and it is somewhat apples to oranges, but if i'm starting a team i'll take wade over scottie all day long. . .

D-Wade with more blocks per game!?!?!

D-WADE!