Thread: So... How Short is Siemian’s Leash?

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Won't argue ya, but it's mainly Ward's presence. Hard to measure and I might just be puffin nonsense.

he's an enforcer. . . he and malik brought a lot of the nasty to that '15 defense. . . we still have wolfe and talib, but more attitude is better. . . peko has contributed some. . .

Originally Posted by dogfish

he's an enforcer. . . he and malik brought a lot of the nasty to that '15 defense. . . we still have wolfe and talib, but more attitude is better. . . peko has contributed some. . .

These guys could be special, like '15...Gotsis is a dude. But jfc Siemian can't lose us more games like Bills and Giants. He loses another one for the team, I am done with him.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

I use to like to the hard cap, and now I am soured about it. I have been noticing it over the last few years actually. Like the notion that it is a QB driven league. While that is true, even the QBs large contracts that they demand puts strains on the team and what they are able to do.

Interesting take, so do you agree with Weazel that paying Von all that money strapped the team negatively? Would it have been better to trade him? Not saying you are right or wrong as many people ive seen talking about guys like Flacco making it very difficult to get more talent on their team have similar thoughts. But are we at a stage in the NFL where its just not feasible anymore to have one player eat up a lot of the cap in order to build a reliable franchise? While i do love Von it does make me wonder if keeping him at that cost was really worth it in the long run. A lot of the success of long term contenders the last 30 years has really only been one position and it isnt LB. The reality is the QB position is really the most important part of the team, at least judging by the last 30-40 years.

Originally Posted by dogfish

you can add ware to the leadership discussion. . .

i'm interested to see if we get an on-field boost from shane ray when he gets back. . . IMO, the lack of our extra rushers has been one of the things limiting the defense's ability to make dynamic plays. . .

Considering how much Von gets paid on this team shouldnt he be the guy that motivates this club? It certainly isnt going to come from any of the QB's we have.

Originally Posted by Northman

Interesting take, so do you agree with Weazel that paying Von all that money strapped the team negatively? Would it have been better to trade him? Not saying you are right or wrong as many people ive seen talking about guys like Flacco making it very difficult to get more talent on their team have similar thoughts. But are we at a stage in the NFL where its just not feasible anymore to have one player eat up a lot of the cap in order to build a reliable franchise? While i do love Von it does make me wonder if keeping him at that cost was really worth it in the long run. A lot of the success of long term contenders the last 30 years has really only been one position and it isnt LB. The reality is the QB position is really the most important part of the team, at least judging by the last 30-40 years.

I personally think ONE Drew Brees contract (or Flacco or Luck etc) can pay for 3 KEY players on a defense. Here is a list of the highest paid players in the NFL. Von Miller (I think) is the highest paid NON QB. He comes in at 17th highest paid player.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000809063

I do not have a problem with paying Von Miller, cause while it causes some problems, an effective EDGE rusher is probably the next most valuable commodity on an NFL team. I mentioned this before how Tom Brady is the 17th highest paid QB. See any advantage that is for the Pats over the league?

I really do not see any real answer here. Heck, I am not even sure why we get all excited during each draft. IF a team is good in the draft and they land 4 quality players in a draft, well at least 2 of them will be gone 4 years later. Reference Travathan and Malik Jackson. Those are just a few examples. What are we really hoping for? For the Broncos to draft really well only to be penalized (essentially penalized) for drafting and developing players?

We would all be giddy if the Broncos signed Andrew Luck. Well, if it is so imperative to have a franchise QB over anything else, and if Luck is sooooo good, why hasnt he been to a super bowl? I think he has thrown 16 ints in the play offs. Now, the first thing EVERYONE SAYS is the Colts cannot get a good enough team around him. He demands huge money. It is not really mystery why that is a hard thing to do. When is the last time Drew Brees has been to the play offs? He gets around 30 mil a year. Wonder why they cannot get a defense?

BTW, that is a great example of how a great defense is actually more valuable than a franchise QB. We all lived through 2008. That had to be the worst defense we have ever seen in Denver. Broncos number 2 in offense, 8 and 8 season.


Would we rather have Andrew Luck if that meant the Broncos could not have Von Miller, Talib and Chris Harris? Not me. A solid defense always gives a team a chance. A solid defense is the common denominator with every SB winning team.

Originally Posted by Northman

Considering how much Von gets paid on this team shouldnt he be the guy that motivates this club? It certainly isnt going to come from any of the QB's we have.

I actually think Peko is a pretty good leader on the defense. He is a veteran, and he plays with really high energy. I think he is a good presence on the defense. I really do. Doesn't hurt that is he also doing an outstanding job against the run.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

I actually think Peko is a pretty good leader on the defense. He is a veteran, and he plays with really high energy. I think he is a good presence on the defense. I really do. Doesn't hurt that is he also doing an outstanding job against the run.

Yea, i get that. I think Wolfe is somewhat of a leader as well but those guys arent getting paid the kind of cash that Von is. Now granted, none of them have his talent either but when it comes to your franchise player (lets face it, Von is that guy for Denver) i would expect him to be the driving force for the team. For years Ray Lewis was that guy for Bmore and even when the team lost other players due to FA he was able to maintain a high level of competitiveness and inspiration with the Ravens defense. Denver's defense is still very good but i think i would like to see more from Von in terms of lighting a fire under his teammates including the offense. Something tells me that VJ isnt doing that because if he is im not seeing it translate on the field. If something doesnt change with the offense its going to bring a divide in the lockerroom. Something has simply got to give and somebody other than Wolfe needs to step up and start getting these guys motivated again.

Originally Posted by Northman

Yea, i get that. I think Wolfe is somewhat of a leader as well but those guys arent getting paid the kind of cash that Von is. Now granted, none of them have his talent either but when it comes to your franchise player (lets face it, Von is that guy for Denver) i would expect him to be the driving force for the team. For years Ray Lewis was that guy for Bmore and even when the team lost other players due to FA he was able to maintain a high level of competitiveness and inspiration with the Ravens defense. Denver's defense is still very good but i think i would like to see more from Von in terms of lighting a fire under his teammates including the offense. Something tells me that VJ isnt doing that because if he is im not seeing it translate on the field. If something doesnt change with the offense its going to bring a divide in the lockerroom. Something has simply got to give and somebody other than Wolfe needs to step up and start getting these guys motivated again.

The thing about effective leaders is they are naturally that way. Meaning, if Von Miller started being something he isn't, that really does not work either. Von Miller does his job. Trust me. That is more valuable than any other perceived leadership a player shows or doesn't show. \

The defense right now is not the problem. Yes, we wish they would have more turnovers or higher rate of sacks. The defense is essentially doing quite well. Take away that pick 6 Sunday, and the defense is actually giving up less points than they gave up in 2015 and 2016. They are number 1 in total defense. They are number 1 against the rush. Now, the Giants did have good rushing numbers, but that is largely due a few gashes. One of them for 47 yards. That was just a very good trap call and they caught Denver in the proper stunt to execute it. That happens. That had nothing to do with the lack of talent on the defense.

They had the luxury of paying Von because we didn't have to pay a QB, and that cap money had to go somewhere. There haven't been any FA options either the last couple of years. They sniffed around Kap and Romo, neither would have brought what Manning did.

They just need to play Sloter...Wait...

I think Broz gets the nod at some point. 1. Elway seems to love him some giraffe. 2. I don't think Elway has ever been invested in Siemian.

It just boggles the mind how the OLine remains so bad and nothing they throw at it seems to fix it. The same problem with multiple Coaches. Is it technique? Coaching? Talent? Scheme?

If Denver had an even Average OLine, omg

Originally Posted by Shazam!

The same problem with multiple Coaches. Is it technique? Coaching? Talent? Scheme?

What if the problem is the "multiple coaches".

New staffs, new schemes, and resulting new talent every other year for God knows how long.

Shanny's defenses were terrible for so long, and maybe not coincidentally, he changed coordinators every year for seasons on end.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

It's probably some of both, but I would advocate that we try to keep the same staff and schemes on the offensive side of the ball for longer than 2 seasons if we want to develop our offensive draft picks which presumably were picked at the time to fit the scheme being coached.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

It just boggles the mind how the OLine remains so bad and nothing they throw at it seems to fix it. The same problem with multiple Coaches. Is it technique? Coaching? Talent? Scheme?

If Denver had an even Average OLine, omg

People are saying that a lot, but I think the OL has improved. They ran he ball quite well through the first quarter of the season. Leary is an absolute improvement and Bolles is a solid pick. The RT position, may very well be the same as last year. I personally don't think it is worse.

If you notice too, around the league, there seems to be a lack of quality line play. Many veterans are pointing to the new CBA and the lack of practice.

Kind of brings me to the sad state of affairs for American football in this country. I do not think I am alone in saying we are seeing the beginning of the end of the sport. I just wonder after tackle football is banned in this country (it will start and is already starting with HS football), what sport will be next. Perhaps those other sports that are prone to head injuries and concussions won't be attacked by the lawyers.

Hockey?

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

The only thing to hope for is some magic carpet ride like 2015. Which, quite frankly is pretty unrealistic. Looking back at that season (just looked that schedule), trying not to use the word "luck" but there were like 8 wins that could have went the other way if the ball bounced the other way. Not being literal, but you know what I mean.

I guess we have to hope for that.

We sure do! :thumbs:

Realistically, no team that won like the 2015 Broncos ever repeated. And it only ever happened about 1 time every 10 years, never to the same team twice.

The '86 Bears defense was statistically better than the SB Shuffle '85 squad, and they still had a ton of Pro-Bowl or Hall of Fame talent, but they never won anything again. Nor did the 2001 Ravens, or the 2003 Bucs who didn't even make the playoffs the next season - like the 2016 Broncos.

To win repeatedly you need an elite QB like Manning, Eli Manning, Brees, Rogers, Brady, Roethlisberger. It's not an accident that those 6 QBs have a combined 13 SB wins. And few other QBs have won even once in the last 15 years: Russell Wilson, Joe Flacco. That's it:

Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs

You'll notice the monotonous repetitive nature of that list. It's getting so that, outside of historically great defenses like the 2015 Broncos or 2000 Ravens, it's the same QBs every year. I'm getting so tired of seeing Brady hoist the Lombardi Trophy every damn year!

The problem with moving on from TS is as other's have mentioned, who do you move to?

I love the idea of Lynch stepping up but despite his great physical traits, he is not getting the mental aspect at all.

At this point, unless we are out of the hunt, I don't see any benefit to Lynch playing. The light's are just not on with him.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

People are saying that a lot, but I think the OL has improved. They ran he ball quite well through the first quarter of the season. Leary is an absolute improvement and Bolles is a solid pick. The RT position, may very well be the same as last year. I personally don't think it is worse.

If you notice too, around the league, there seems to be a lack of quality line play. Many veterans are pointing to the new CBA and the lack of practice.

Kind of brings me to the sad state of affairs for American football in this country. I do not think I am alone in saying we are seeing the beginning of the end of the sport. I just wonder after tackle football is banned in this country (it will start and is already starting with HS football), what sport will be next. Perhaps those other sports that are prone to head injuries and concussions won't be attacked by the lawyers.

Hockey?

Hockey doesn't have to be played with the hitting and violence that football has. Also, I think that it would be hypocritical to go after hockey and football and ignore things like extreme sports and downhill skiing (where you can die that day if something goes wrong).