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Thread: So i was told i was overreacting last night

  1. #1
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    Default So i was told i was overreacting last night

    Did we win? I went to bed at halftime because Weasel guaranteed a second half comeback. We be 4-1 right?




    On a more serious front, nothing has changed offensively the last 3-4 years. The only game that was an offensive juggernaut was the Dallas game but Dallas has shown they are not the team that everyone thought they would be anyway. While at times Siemian has looked decent and even good but others he has looked like a B or C grade Qb. I know i know, any QB can have a bad game but what separates the great QB's from the middle of the pack QB's is consistency and frankly Trevor does not have that. I gave him a pass for quite a while but last night only proved to me that he just isnt the guy long term. We dont have a choice at this point in time as its either him, Brock, or Paxton but none of them are worth a damn so i think Elway needs to do some soul searching and realize he doesnt have his franchise QB yet. Trevor and Brock can certainly be a serviceable backup but they are not leaders of men and are not franchise QB's. The attitude of this team coming off a bye was simply embarrassing. The kicking and screaming attitude that Elway said he wanted just wasnt there and yes this was an important home game against a very bad and depleted Giants team. You just cant give away games like that when competing for the division and playoff aspirations. This team is not good enough defensively to repeat what they did in 15', so its imperative that the offense does more than they have been. As the Raiders and Cowboys have proven, just because you have good Olines does not mean you will automatically win ballgames. You have to have Qb's who can improvise and make plays when they are not there, you need QB's who can take care of the ball and not put your defense in bad situations. While a 3-2 record isnt the end of the world last night was a very glaring look at the reality of this football team. If they cant get up for a football game at home vs an 0-5 squad than its not a great sign for the rest of the season vs much better competition. I dont want the Broncos to quit the rest of the season, but i think it would be in their best interest to lose close games so that their draft position improves to a point where they can go after a legitimate QB. Either that, or start trying to set up trade proposals for guys like Rodgers, Brady, or Stafford and see what they have left in the tank. Hell, as much grief as i give Romo i would beg him and promise a BJ from Dogfish to come and play for this team.

    Now, let the homers flame away.
    ,

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    Damn dude break that paragraph up some. Ain't nobody trying to read that wall of text!


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    I told my kid before the game, Denver should dominate this game, and if they somehow lose, then they are pretenders and are not even a playoff quality team. At this point I have lost confidence in Elway's and the Broncos scouting ability. Trevor Siemian is Kyle Orton 2.0, no amount of spin or creative statistic manipulation can convince me he will ever be a good quarterback. And for %#*$'s sake, how is it possible that Osweiler is even on an NFL roster, much less ours??? When you get treated for Gonorrhea, why would you willingly ask for it back? With Lynch looking like a bust, the only chance our offense has of being good in the next 3 years is the lottery chance of Machine gun Kelly suddenly gaining 50 I.Q. Points.

    The coaching... Vance Walker. What exactly did he do as an assistant or coordinator that was so earth shattering to convince Elway to give the reigns of he franchise to him? I didn't see it, still don't. That 4th down call against the Bills was bush league and he has been just as unimpressive to me as he was as the Dolphins defensive coordinator. How is this offense any better and any less predictable than Kubiak's? It is painfully obvious to the average fan what is a run and what is a pass, creativity just isn't there. On defense, who didn't know that Engram was going to be their game plan? Who didn't know that they would pound the ball with Darkwa? Yet they ran free. The d has been solid, but somehow teams score on us. Broken coverage at the worst time after holding teams to under 200 yards passing, 3rd down woes, etc.

    Not impressed at all with this years offense, our O line is a sieve again, the only bright spot I see is our new left tackle. With that 3 and out factory in business, it doesn't matter how good the D is. They'll get tired and injured. Booooo!

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    Historically Denver has never done well as big favorites. We've seen them lose games like this before. Reminds me of the Shanahan teams in 07 and 08 that came out flat, leaderless and lifeless.

    Everyone wants to put the loss squarely on Simien, but again, the Broncos OLine got absolutely manhandled up front.

    I feared they may lose this game, but i never would have believed they would show up so dead. I blame Coach Joseph for the performance, not having them prepped after the Bye. Even for a preseason game, it would mot be acceptable.

    Ever since the Seattle Super Bowl, the OLine has been exposed as the weak link on offense. It is amazing to me they won the SB in 15 with that unit. Think about Peytons decline, went stride for stride with how bad the OLine was performing.

    Elway went through it in his late years, Denver had the best OLine in the NFL for years. He knows what it takes for a QB to succeed. Why this problem can't seem to be fixed is a mystery.

    They had a HUGE opportunity yesterday that was wasted with the KC loss. They could have been pushed to the top of the AFC playoff chase.

    Now at least we know the truth, this year's Broncos are not ready for primetime and not a serious contender. How they respond the rest of the way will be a further testament to Joseph. Because if they lose next Sun in LA, this season could spiral out of control.
    "I may not be a mathematician, but I can count to a million." - Shannon Sharpe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazam! View Post

    Now at least we know the truth, this year's Broncos are not ready for primetime and not a serious contender. How they respond the rest of the way will be a further testament to Joseph. Because if they lose next Sun in LA, this season could spiral out of control.
    I agree with the sentiment, but I think the game in LA almost doesn't matter. The three after that are at KC, at Philly, vs NE. Anyone see one win there? So we're looking at 4-5 at best at that point.

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    Where to begin?

    1. If last night showed us anything, it is that TS is not the long term answer at QB. He is as good as he is going to get IMO. That pick six last night was all on him. He stared down the receiver making it easy for the CB to know where he was throwing the ball. He also gets rattled when he has to create on his own as a play breaks down, thus leading to horrible decision making.

    2. It's clear Elway has two areas of player evaluation he should delegate to someone else. QB and OL. Those areas have been his Achilles heel since he has become the GM. While still early, it looks like they may have gotten lucky with Bolles at LT. Guess the sun shines on a cats ass every now and then. Seems his only successes on the OL have been Leary, Bolles, Paradis, with possibly Vasquez and Franklin before injuries. IIRC, Elway has drafted eight offensive linemen since becoming GM.

    His draft misses include the following:

    Phillip Blake, Michael Schofield, Ty Sambrailo, Vinston Painter, Max Garcia, Connor McGovern (jury still out).

    In FA, he has done a little better, but that is not saying much. Signing veteran offensive linemen on the back end of their careers is not the optimal way to build an offensive line long term. Mathis, Barbre, and Clark paid short term dividends. But he missed badly when trying sign younger veterans, ie., Stephenson, and Watson ($18 million for this guy?).

    As to the QB's, Elway may be a HOF'er, but he is a shitty evaluator of QB's. All his draft picks have been mediocre to horrible. Might be better to give Kubiak the reins when evaluating QB's from this point forward.

    Chad Kelly- Can't evaluate due to injury
    Paxton Lynch- Athletically gifted, seemingly a slow learner
    Trevor Siemian- Smart, but inconsistent
    Zac Dysert- Out of the league
    Brock Osweiler-Backup at best

    3. Coaching- VJ gets a slight pass from me as this is his first time as a HC at any level. Having said that, while he may be a so-called "leader of men", this team seems to have motivational issues. Playing up or down to an opponents level reflects badly on him. It's obvious Denver overlooked both Buffalo and the NYG. Coming out flat and unmotivated in both these games. He stated early on he wants to attack on offense. Thus far, this offense is not much different than last year. The scheme might have changed, but they are still one dimensional. Personally, the thing driving me completely crazy is this RB by committee BS. Anderson is not a threat and probably would become trade bait if I had anything to do with it. Jamaal Charles should become the starting RB with Booker backing him up IMO.

    4. Lets get over the narrative this defense is elite. Last nights game completely destroyed this line of thought. A team missing six starters in critical positions
    (3 offensive, 3 defensive) should have been dominated. They also had two weeks to prepare for this game. What happens? As CJ stated, they got their asses kicked.

    What should happen going forward? If they can't become more consistent in the next 3-4 games, they are obligated to see what they have in Lynch. I truly believe Trevor has reached his ceiling. Lynch seems like a player that will only get better with playing time. This team (like most) selecting a 1st round QB doesn't have the luxury to sit them for more than a year. By seasons end, they need to know if they need to take another swing at drafting another QBOTF.
    Last edited by Traveler; 10-16-2017 at 09:53 AM.

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  11. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Did we win? I went to bed at halftime because Weasel guaranteed a second half comeback. We be 4-1 right?




    On a more serious front, nothing has changed offensively the last 3-4 years. The only game that was an offensive juggernaut was the Dallas game but Dallas has shown they are not the team that everyone thought they would be anyway. While at times Siemian has looked decent and even good but others he has looked like a B or C grade Qb. I know i know, any QB can have a bad game but what separates the great QB's from the middle of the pack QB's is consistency and frankly Trevor does not have that.

    I gave him a pass for quite a while but last night only proved to me that he just isnt the guy long term. We dont have a choice at this point in time as its either him, Brock, or Paxton but none of them are worth a damn so i think Elway needs to do some soul searching and realize he doesnt have his franchise QB yet. Trevor and Brock can certainly be a serviceable backup but they are not leaders of men and are not franchise QB's. The attitude of this team coming off a bye was simply embarrassing. The kicking and screaming attitude that Elway said he wanted just wasnt there and yes this was an important home game against a very bad and depleted Giants team. You just cant give away games like that when competing for the division and playoff aspirations.

    This team is not good enough defensively to repeat what they did in 15', so its imperative that the offense does more than they have been. As the Raiders and Cowboys have proven, just because you have good Olines does not mean you will automatically win ballgames. You have to have Qb's who can improvise and make plays when they are not there, you need QB's who can take care of the ball and not put your defense in bad situations. While a 3-2 record isnt the end of the world last night was a very glaring look at the reality of this football team.

    If they cant get up for a football game at home vs an 0-5 squad than its not a great sign for the rest of the season vs much better competition. I dont want the Broncos to quit the rest of the season, but i think it would be in their best interest to lose close games so that their draft position improves to a point where they can go after a legitimate QB. Either that, or start trying to set up trade proposals for guys like Rodgers, Brady, or Stafford and see what they have left in the tank. Hell, as much grief as i give Romo i would beg him and promise a BJ from Dogfish to come and play for this team.

    Now, let the homers flame away.
    ,
    Wall of text was too long...didn't read.


    *edit* There... I tried to break up the wall a little yikes...

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    Everyone wants to blame Trevor but how can he be effective if he can't stand in the pocket for 2 seconds? He's on the way to a 40 or 50 sack season at this pace.

    Cant blame the QB when the Oline is garbage.
    "I may not be a mathematician, but I can count to a million." - Shannon Sharpe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazam! View Post
    Everyone wants to blame Trevor but how can he be effective if he can't stand in the pocket for 2 seconds? He's on the way to a 40 or 50 sack season at this pace.

    Cant blame the QB when the Oline is garbage.
    I noticed several times last night that Trevor could have avoided the rush. I'm a Trevor fan, and want him to do well, but at least two of the sacks last night were on him, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazam! View Post
    Everyone wants to blame Trevor but how can he be effective if he can't stand in the pocket for 2 seconds? He's on the way to a 40 or 50 sack season at this pace.

    Cant blame the QB when the Oline is garbage.
    Everyone wants to blame Trevor because it was on him...The o-line was a problem last night, but it wasn't the problem. Even i'm not defending him anymore. You aren't there yet, give it another game or two and you'll see the truth of the matter.

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    Siemian looks panicked back there, not because of actual pressure, but just panicked, he locks onto one guy and doesn't read where his guys are or where pressure is coming from. You can only blame the line so much when they have tried MULTIPLE different guys in different places and the result is the same. This same line has our rb's averaging at least 5 ypc, so at some point it sits at the feet of Siemian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GEM View Post
    Siemian looks panicked back there, not because of actual pressure, but just panicked, he locks onto one guy and doesn't read where his guys are or where pressure is coming from. You can only blame the line so much when they have tried MULTIPLE different guys in different places and the result is the same. This same line has our rb's averaging at least 5 ypc, so at some point it sits at the feet of Siemian.
    Yup, dude was seeing ghosts back there last night...

    That's pretty much a tell tale sign you've ruined a QB. Even if we did get him a perfect line at this point, he's always going to jump at shadows and force bad decisions.

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    His pocket presence has been bad. Last night, it was terrible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoJoe View Post
    His pocket presence has been bad. Last night, it was terrible.
    And we're not talking about some impressive powerful pass rush either, we're talking about the previously 8 sack Giants. And a lot of it wasn't the o-line pissing the bed, it was Trevor holding the ball for WAAAAYYY too long or drifting right into the pass rusher...

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    It seems to me that Siemian is at his best when he runs play action. He seems to be poised and he has shown ability to make the throws. The problem is the running game is inconsistent and therefore ineffective.

    When Siemian is not running play action and just doing straight pass plays, he is less than ordinary.

    I believe he is NOT the answer. I do think he is a competent back up QB in this league and that is no small thing. That is a valuable commodity for any team. The problem as I see it in this hard cap league is when a QB is paid top dollar, all of a sudden that team tends to suffer.

    We would all love to have Andrew Luck. Well, he comes with a steep price. People wonder why the Colts cannot field a team around him. Not all that hard to figure out why. When ONE player (even a franchise QB) takes up that much money, it becomes really problematic.

    Look at the highest paid QBs in the league and look what typically happens to those franchises AFTER they pay their QBs. The Ravens, after their SB paid Flacco top dollar. They had to get rid of 7 players the next year to accommodate that contract. They have been woefully inconsistent as a franchise since.

    In case some are wondering, Tom Brady is the 16th highest paid QB in the NFL. We can argue he is the best QB and he does not break the bank of the Pats. Are they pulling a cheatriots trick with that? Probably, but it has not been addressed at all by the league. Which means as of now that is legit.

    This team over the last 3 games has averaged 14 points per game. Does not help that Mcmanus all of sudden cannot hit FGs.

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