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Thread: So i was told i was overreacting last night

  1. #16
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    Every team has issues in some regard. Even the better teams bit Siemian has hit his plateau and yes he was worse than the oline last night. His game last night reminded me of Paxton in the preseason when he started. Trevor shit the bed and at this stage of his development that should not be happening.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Did we win? I went to bed at halftime because Weasel guaranteed a second half comeback. We be 4-1 right?




    On a more serious front, nothing has changed offensively the last 3-4 years. The only game that was an offensive juggernaut was the Dallas game but Dallas has shown they are not the team that everyone thought they would be anyway. While at times Siemian has looked decent and even good but others he has looked like a B or C grade Qb. I know i know, any QB can have a bad game but what separates the great QB's from the middle of the pack QB's is consistency and frankly Trevor does not have that. I gave him a pass for quite a while but last night only proved to me that he just isnt the guy long term. We dont have a choice at this point in time as its either him, Brock, or Paxton but none of them are worth a damn so i think Elway needs to do some soul searching and realize he doesnt have his franchise QB yet. Trevor and Brock can certainly be a serviceable backup but they are not leaders of men and are not franchise QB's. The attitude of this team coming off a bye was simply embarrassing. The kicking and screaming attitude that Elway said he wanted just wasnt there and yes this was an important home game against a very bad and depleted Giants team. You just cant give away games like that when competing for the division and playoff aspirations. This team is not good enough defensively to repeat what they did in 15', so its imperative that the offense does more than they have been. As the Raiders and Cowboys have proven, just because you have good Olines does not mean you will automatically win ballgames. You have to have Qb's who can improvise and make plays when they are not there, you need QB's who can take care of the ball and not put your defense in bad situations. While a 3-2 record isnt the end of the world last night was a very glaring look at the reality of this football team. If they cant get up for a football game at home vs an 0-5 squad than its not a great sign for the rest of the season vs much better competition. I dont want the Broncos to quit the rest of the season, but i think it would be in their best interest to lose close games so that their draft position improves to a point where they can go after a legitimate QB. Either that, or start trying to set up trade proposals for guys like Rodgers, Brady, or Stafford and see what they have left in the tank. Hell, as much grief as i give Romo i would beg him and promise a BJ from Dogfish to come and play for this team.

    Now, let the homers flame away.
    ,
    I figured they would wake up at some point, guess I underestimated how poopy this offense is. Can someone show Siemien how to look off a defender? Holy ******* tunnel vision.

    I'm not going to try and read that block of text though, North.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazam! View Post
    Historically Denver has never done well as big favorites. We've seen them lose games like this before. Reminds me of the Shanahan teams in 07 and 08 that came out flat, leaderless and lifeless.

    Everyone wants to put the loss squarely on Simien, but again, the Broncos OLine got absolutely manhandled up front.

    I feared they may lose this game, but i never would have believed they would show up so dead. I blame Coach Joseph for the performance, not having them prepped after the Bye. Even for a preseason game, it would mot be acceptable.

    Ever since the Seattle Super Bowl, the OLine has been exposed as the weak link on offense. It is amazing to me they won the SB in 15 with that unit. Think about Peytons decline, went stride for stride with how bad the OLine was performing.

    Elway went through it in his late years, Denver had the best OLine in the NFL for years. He knows what it takes for a QB to succeed. Why this problem can't seem to be fixed is a mystery.

    They had a HUGE opportunity yesterday that was wasted with the KC loss. They could have been pushed to the top of the AFC playoff chase.

    Now at least we know the truth, this year's Broncos are not ready for primetime and not a serious contender. How they respond the rest of the way will be a further testament to Joseph. Because if they lose next Sun in LA, this season could spiral out of control.
    Except that nobody else is playing much better. We'd say the Chiefs, except they just lost at home to a not terrific Steelers team.

    What it comes down to is this: "Do the Broncos have a chance if Trevor continues to throw 6 Ints for every 8 TDs? No." If he cleans up his act a bit, and stops throwing stupid picks at the worst times, then yes.

    The Patriots defense is the worst in the NFL. Dead last in yards per game. They managed to rally down 14 to the Jets on Sunday! Whoot! Whoot!

    But, they are not playing like a team serious about making a SB run. No matter how good Brady is, they can't expect to win just based on offense. We've seen that doesn't work in the NFL. Some team will play decent defense against them and slow down their offense, and then where are they? Nowhere. That is what happened to all those Peyton Manning led Colts teams as well as the 2013 Broncos. It's wildly exciting until you give up 38 points and lose 38-34 or something.

    The OL is terrible, but Brady's OL is worse, the OL of the Giants was horrible until last night, and will be horrible again next week and in weeks to come. The Seahawks have had terrible OL play for years. The Cowboys OL has struggled this season.

    Really, who is playing great football right now? This is a mediocrity of garbage all over the league. It's not that lots of teams are really good and are beating each other up, it's that nobody is really very good and thus they play well one week, and horrible the next, and then OK the next, and so on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    Except that nobody else is playing much better. We'd say the Chiefs, except they just lost at home to a not terrific Steelers team.

    What it comes down to is this: "Do the Broncos have a chance if Trevor continues to throw 6 Ints for every 8 TDs? No." If he cleans up his act a bit, and stops throwing stupid picks at the worst times, then yes.

    The Patriots defense is the worst in the NFL. Dead last in yards per game. They managed to rally down 14 to the Jets on Sunday! Whoot! Whoot!

    But, they are not playing like a team serious about making a SB run. No matter how good Brady is, they can't expect to win just based on offense. We've seen that doesn't work in the NFL. Some team will play decent defense against them and slow down their offense, and then where are they? Nowhere. That is what happened to all those Peyton Manning led Colts teams as well as the 2013 Broncos. It's wildly exciting until you give up 38 points and lose 38-34 or something.

    The OL is terrible, but Brady's OL is worse, the OL of the Giants was horrible until last night, and will be horrible again next week and in weeks to come. The Seahawks have had terrible OL play for years. The Cowboys OL has struggled this season.

    Really, who is playing great football right now? This is a mediocrity of garbage all over the league. It's not that lots of teams are really good and are beating each other up, it's that nobody is really very good and thus they play well one week, and horrible the next, and then OK the next, and so on.
    Yeah, all true.

    What i find interesting is there are no really unreal teams in the NFL.

    What team right now can we say is so great right now? 5 games in, and no more unbeatens. 2nd year in a row that there are no unbeatens before week 6.

    There are just no truly great teams right now as far as I can see. The parity of the NFL is coming through. Not sure how good that is.

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    I think everything needs to be put into context. Cugel is right. Right now everyone in the NFL has some fatal flaws that make them beatable by any team in the league if the ball bounces the right way.

    We are wanting a year three (second year of actually playing) to be one of the top 5 QB's in the NFL? Or top 10? I seem to remember several established QB's making some pretty bad throws in their second year. Derek Carr had 3 pick sixes his 2nd year. Shit he is terrible, get rid of him.

    He hasn't been playing great, but he is a work in progress. If we can get better running the ball and a little better in pass protection, he'll be fine.

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  10. #21
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    I just can't push the panic button just yet, but the last 3 games have been disappointing. The bad news is we have an average to below average team right now, but part of me still thinks they still have games like they did against Dallas left in them as opposed to the Buffalo and Giants games. Looking at the game again today it seems like the Broncos were just hit in the chin by how the Giants played on both sides of the ball and really took them out of the game early.

    The next 3 to 4 weeks will tell us a lot about this team. If they lay another egg against the Chargers then I am just going to relax and lower my expectations. Either way I don't see the need outside of when I am watching the game to let any of this effect me emotionally. I work with a Steelers fan that was beside himself with borderline depression after the previous weeks game where Big Ben threw like 5 INTs and today of course he is strutting around the office. It is so week to week in this league, and this season is especially weird.

    Who is the dominant team in the NFL? The Chiefs looked anemic yesterday. The Pats are scraping by. And hey, at least we didn't have a hall of fame QB to lose like Green Bay. The Broncos are already 2-0 in the division with a chance to be 3-0. I will reserve judgment until after next week. They better come out pissed off and tear the Chargers apart. I will be there either way like an idiot cheering them on.

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  12. #22
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    Trevor cant read a defense. He stares down receivers on most routes. Seems like theres no understanding between Trevor and rest of offense on blitzes. No hot reads.

    There was one play where Charles read the d, came out of the backfield on a fast swing that would have gone for probably 20, and Trevor couldnt get the ball to him.


    Denver needs to hire Peyton to come in and coach this kid at the line......or just move on.
    IN PATON I TRUST.

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  14. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyBronco View Post
    I think everything needs to be put into context. Cugel is right. Right now everyone in the NFL has some fatal flaws that make them beatable by any team in the league if the ball bounces the right way.

    We are wanting a year three (second year of actually playing) to be one of the top 5 QB's in the NFL? Or top 10? I seem to remember several established QB's making some pretty bad throws in their second year. Derek Carr had 3 pick sixes his 2nd year. Shit he is terrible, get rid of him.

    He hasn't been playing great, but he is a work in progress. If we can get better running the ball and a little better in pass protection, he'll be fine.
    No, we'd be content with consistent play and putting up more than one TD in the last 8 fricken quarters... You can put the spin on it all you want, he's playing like dog feces... It's time we get past this silly defense, no one wants him to be top 5, we'd just like to see him not be Kyle Orton.

    I used to make these same silly excuses, but come on man...If you can't see how broken he is at this point...The guy has NO pocket presence and is jumping at shadows.
    Last edited by Freyaka; 10-16-2017 at 12:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncoknight30 View Post
    In case some are wondering, Tom Brady is the 16th highest paid QB in the NFL. We can argue he is the best QB and he does not break the bank of the Pats. Are they pulling a cheatriots trick with that? Probably, but it has not been addressed at all by the league. Which means as of now that is legit.
    There's no trick or anything illegal about Tom Brady routinely agreeing to restructure his contract and that he makes less than many other top flight QBs. What exactly do you think the league needs to address? Should all starting QBs make the exact same amount of money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WARHORSE View Post
    Trevor cant read a defense. He stares down receivers on most routes. Seems like theres no understanding between Trevor and rest of offense on blitzes. No hot reads.

    There was one play where Charles read the d, came out of the backfield on a fast swing that would have gone for probably 20, and Trevor couldnt get the ball to him.

    Denver needs to hire Peyton to come in and coach this kid at the line......or just move on.
    Move on to whom exactly?

    There are no white knights coming to the rescue!

    Paxton? Paxton is a bust. Let's face it. Name me another SB winning QB who failed to win the starting job (when it was open to him) for his first 2 seasons. I can't think of one, can you? As bad as he looked in pre-season games sometimes, in closed practices he was getting picked off by our defense all the time and failing to read defenses correctly, etc. He's completely useless and it's time to face up to that fact, no matter how big John Elway's ego is. That guy will never be a star in this league.

    Brock? He just got run out of town from Houston and Cleveland. Take a look at their QBs right now:

    DeShone Kiser - 3 TDs, 9 Ints, a 50% completion % and a passer rating of 49.5.

    How about Houston?: They gave up a 2nd round pick just to get RID of Osweiler, and then went out in the draft and traded up to get DeShaun Watson. Giving up a pick just to get rid of a guy you paid $37M to in guarantees just the season before is not an endorsement. Osweiler is a bust too.

    Elway is 0-2 in first and second round QBs drafted during his tenure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Every team has issues in some regard. Even the better teams bit Siemian has hit his plateau and yes he was worse than the oline last night. His game last night reminded me of Paxton in the preseason when he started. Trevor shit the bed and at this stage of his development that should not be happening.
    Mediocre is mediocre. Graphically represented it looks like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Up one week, down the next. And after every high point, coaches media and fans all say: "Trevor had a good week. Now if he could just build off his positives and correct a few glaring deficiencies like his tendency to throw the ball into tight coverages and get it picked off then we'd really have something." Only next week he regresses. One week 2 TDs and no picks, and the team wins. The next week, 2 INTs including a pick 6 and he not only regresses but throws out his shoulder trying to tackle the defender from running into the end-zone with the ball.

    Next week, he'll probably throw 2 TDs and no Ints, and people will say "he's turning the corner, and getting better." No, he's not. He's mediocre. That means some good and then some bad, and then some more good and then some bad.

    When you play at the TOP of the curve all the time that means you are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Ben Rothlisberger (when he's not throwing 5 picks). We don't have a "plus-A-grade QB."

    We have a former 7th round pick who is smart. And mediocre.

  17. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davii View Post
    There's no trick or anything illegal about Tom Brady routinely agreeing to restructure his contract and that he makes less than many other top flight QBs. What exactly do you think the league needs to address? Should all starting QBs make the exact same amount of money?
    Nothing. I said since the league has NOT addressed that, then there is probably nothing technically wrong with that.

    When you have arguably the best QB in the league and he does not break the bank of a franchise, then that is a big advantage.

    Nothing technically wrong with that. However, most teams cannot realistically even hope for that.

  18. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    No, we'd be content with consistent play and putting up more than one TD in the last 8 fricken quarters... You can put the spin on it all you want, he's playing like dog feces... It's time we get past this silly defense, no one wants him to be top 5, we'd just like to see him not be Kyle Orton.

    I used to make these same silly excuses, but come on man...If you can't see how broken he is at this point...The guy has NO pocket presence and is jumping at shadows.
    I'd agree but what did you expect? He's breaking under the pressure right now. But, I expect him to get better. He's mediocre that's why. And a mediocre guy will have a good game, a bad game, a good game, a couple of bad games, a few good games that get everybody excited, then lay a giant stinking turd in the playoffs like Alex Smith usually does or Andy Dalton.

    What are we supposed to do if the reality is in the NFL that about 6 teams with elite QBs have any real chance to go deep in the playoffs and win SBs on a consistent basis, and that is because they have elite Hall of Fame level QBs? And everybody else is screwed because they don't?

    The NFL is actually a LOT better than other sports. Take a look at basketball: you either have LeBron or Steff Curry or forget about any hope of a championship. I actually predicted the GSW in 5 games before the season
    started. No surprise. I didn't watch any of the entire NBA season. I don't give a crap about boring coronations.

    Take a look at baseball: You either have a pitching staff like the Dodgers or you don't. The Rockies don't and therefore they have close to zero chance of ever winning the World Series.

    Football is slightly different in that 1 team about every ten years manages to win with smothering defense and a not-elite QB. The 2015 Broncos, the 2002 Bucs with Brad Johnson, the 2000 Ravens with Trent Dilfer, the '85 Bears with Jim McMahon. ONE team every ten years and never the same one twice. That's about it.

    Otherwise you either have an elite QB or no dice.
    Last edited by Cugel; 10-16-2017 at 01:41 PM.

  19. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davii View Post
    There's no trick or anything illegal about Tom Brady routinely agreeing to restructure his contract and that he makes less than many other top flight QBs. What exactly do you think the league needs to address? Should all starting QBs make the exact same amount of money?
    Tom Brady doesn't need the money.

    It is estimated that Brady earns $8 million in endorsements, which include deals with Under Armour and UGG Boots. CelebrityNetWorth puts Tom Brady's career net worth at $180 million, which is far from his wife Gisele Bündchen's $380 million in her respective career as a super model.
    The additional money he could earn is actually LESS than the amount of money he can make from endorsements and from interest on his fortune. He earns more by playing in the SB than if he took $25 M a year and the team was out of the playoffs.

    But, most guys don't have Super Model wives worth $380 M.

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  21. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    Move on to whom exactly?

    There are no white knights coming to the rescue!

    Paxton? Paxton is a bust. Let's face it. Name me another SB winning QB who failed to win the starting job (when it was open to him) for his first 2 seasons. I can't think of one, can you? As bad as he looked in pre-season games sometimes, in closed practices he was getting picked off by our defense all the time and failing to read defenses correctly, etc. He's completely useless and it's time to face up to that fact, no matter how big John Elway's ego is. That guy will never be a star in this league.

    Brock? He just got run out of town from Houston and Cleveland. Take a look at their QBs right now:

    DeShone Kiser - 3 TDs, 9 Ints, a 50% completion % and a passer rating of 49.5.

    How about Houston?: They gave up a 2nd round pick just to get RID of Osweiler, and then went out in the draft and traded up to get DeShaun Watson. Giving up a pick just to get rid of a guy you paid $37M to in guarantees just the season before is not an endorsement. Osweiler is a bust too.

    Elway is 0-2 in first and second round QBs drafted during his tenure.



    Mediocre is mediocre. Graphically represented it looks like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1024px-Simple_sine_wave.svg.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	7.7 KB 
ID:	11205
    Up one week, down the next. And after every high point, coaches media and fans all say: "Trevor had a good week. Now if he could just build off his positives and correct a few glaring deficiencies like his tendency to throw the ball into tight coverages and get it picked off then we'd really have something." Only next week he regresses. One week 2 TDs and no picks, and the team wins. The next week, 2 INTs including a pick 6 and he not only regresses but throws out his shoulder trying to tackle the defender from running into the end-zone with the ball.

    Next week, he'll probably throw 2 TDs and no Ints, and people will say "he's turning the corner, and getting better." No, he's not. He's mediocre. That means some good and then some bad, and then some more good and then some bad.

    When you play at the TOP of the curve all the time that means you are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Ben Rothlisberger (when he's not throwing 5 picks). We don't have a "plus-A-grade QB."

    We have a former 7th round pick who is smart. And mediocre.
    The gloomy part is he really has not been effective since week 2. Team has averaged 14 points over the last 3 games.

    Cannot tell which game was worse, the Giants or Bills game. Granted, those are solid defenses, but 3 weeks in a row and this offense has been pure crap. He has been very inconsistent. Rather predictable.

    Did we all really expect him to be a great ABOUT?

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    "i think Elway needs to do some soul searching and realize he doesnt have his franchise QB yet."

    Not surprising really. If Trevor WAS that SB QB it would be one of the greatest freak events in NFL history. Up there with Kurt Warner and better than Tom Brady (who was a 6th rounder while Trevor was a 7th round pick).

    John Elway left town and the best QB that Mike Shanahan could come up with over the next 10 seasons was Jay Cutler.

    He got fired and the Broncos tried Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow. Then they got lucky and Peyton signed the FA contract.

    Know who John Elway really liked in the 2012 NFL draft if he didn't get Peyton? Brandon Weeden. He was old coming into the league and thought to be "more mature and NFL ready." So, as bad as the Osweiler and Lynch draftings was, it could have been even worse. They could have had Tim Tebow and Branden Weeden as their starting QBs for 2 seasons.

    At least Paxton never got to start!

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