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Thread: Comparing Siemian's first year to other first years since 2007

  1. #1
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    Default Comparing Siemian's first year to other first years since 2007

    Ok, some of us seem to have different views of how Siemian's first year stacks up compared to other first year starters. Since the "new passing rules" keep being thrown up, I chose 2007 as the starting point, so we have a decade of first year starters to compare Siemian to.

    So, here's where Siemian ranks in all the major categories among the 45 QBs that had their first year starting in the last decade as either rookies or second year players. To be clear, some of the names on this list of 45 QBs are: Prescott, Bridgewater, Wilson, Foles, Cutler, Wentz, Mariota, Ryan, Flacco, Newton, Winston, Car, Luck, Stafford, Ryan and others.

    Siemian's rank (out of 45 first year starters over last decade) in each category (stats compiled using database at: https://www.pro-football-reference.com)

    Rating = 11th
    Yards = 10th
    Y/Attemp = 15th
    Y/Game = 4th
    TDs = 14th (tie)
    INT% = 6th
    Wins = 10th (tie)
    4th QTR Comebacks 4th (tie)
    300 Yrd Games = 3rd (tie)
    Completion % = 19th

    Passer Rating
    Code:
    Rank    -    Player    Rate
    1    -    Nick Foles    119.2
    2    -    Dak Prescott    104.9
    3    -    Robert Griffin    102.4
    4    -    Russell Wilson    100
    5    -    Cody Kessler    92.3
    6    -    Marcus Mariota    91.5
    7    -    Jay Cutler    88.1
    8    -    Matt Ryan    87.7
    9    -    Teddy Bridgewater    85.2
    10    -    Austin Davis    85.1
    11    -    Trevor Siemian    84.6
    12    -    Cam Newton    84.5
    13    -    Jameis Winston    84.2
    14    -    Mike Glennon    83.9
    15    -    Derek Anderson    82.5
    16    -    Andy Dalton    80.4
    17    -    Joe Flacco    80.3
    18    -    Carson Wentz    79.3
    19    -    Case Keenum    78.2
    20    -    EJ Manuel    77.7
    21    -    Jason Campbell    77.6
    22    -    JaMarcus Russell    77.1
    23    -    Derek Carr    76.6
    24    -    Andrew Luck    76.5
    25    -    Sam Bradford    76.5
    26    -    Ryan Tannehill    76.1
    27    -    Tyler Thigpen    76
    28    -    Chad Henne    75.2
    29    -    Colt McCoy    74.5
    30    -    Jake Locker    74
    31    -    Tim Tebow    72.9
    32    -    Brandon Weeden    72.6
    33    -    Vince Young    71.1
    34    -    Tarvaris Jackson    70.8
    35    -    Trent Edwards    70.4
    36    -    Christian Ponder    70.1
    37    -    Blake Bortles    69.5
    38    -    Curtis Painter    66.6
    39    -    Geno Smith    66.5
    40    -    Blaine Gabbert    65.4
    41    -    Mark Sanchez    63
    42    -    Matthew Stafford    61
    43    -    Kellen Clemens    60.9
    44    -    Josh Freeman    59.8
    45    -    Jimmy Clausen    58.4
    Yards
    Code:
    Rank    -    Player    Yds
    1    -    Andrew Luck    4374
    2    -    Cam Newton    4051
    3    -    Jameis Winston    4042
    4    -    Derek Anderson    3787
    5    -    Carson Wentz    3782
    6    -    Dak Prescott    3667
    7    -    Sam Bradford    3512
    8    -    Jay Cutler    3497
    9    -    Matt Ryan    3440
    10    -    Trevor Siemian    3401
    11    -    Andy Dalton    3398
    12    -    Brandon Weeden    3385
    13    -    Ryan Tannehill    3294
    14    -    Derek Carr    3270
    15    -    Robert Griffin    3200
    16    -    Russell Wilson    3118
    17    -    Geno Smith    3046
    18    -    Joe Flacco    2971
    19    -    Teddy Bridgewater    2919
    20    -    Blake Bortles    2908
    21    -    Nick Foles    2891
    22    -    Chad Henne    2878
    23    -    Marcus Mariota    2818
    24    -    Jason Campbell    2700
    25    -    Mike Glennon    2608
    26    -    Tyler Thigpen    2608
    27    -    Vince Young    2546
    28    -    Mark Sanchez    2444
    29    -    JaMarcus Russell    2423
    30    -    Matthew Stafford    2267
    31    -    Blaine Gabbert    2214
    32    -    Jake Locker    2176
    33    -    Austin Davis    2001
    34    -    EJ Manuel    1972
    35    -    Tarvaris Jackson    1911
    36    -    Josh Freeman    1855
    37    -    Christian Ponder    1853
    38    -    Case Keenum    1760
    39    -    Tim Tebow    1729
    40    -    Trent Edwards    1630
    41    -    Colt McCoy    1576
    42    -    Jimmy Clausen    1558
    43    -    Curtis Painter    1541
    44    -    Kellen Clemens    1529
    45    -    Cody Kessler    1380


    Yards per attempt

    Code:
    Rank    -    Player    Y/A
    1    -    Nick Foles    9.12
    2    -    Robert Griffin    8.14
    3    -    Dak Prescott    7.99
    4    -    Matt Ryan    7.93
    5    -    Russell Wilson    7.93
    6    -    Cam Newton    7.84
    7    -    Marcus Mariota    7.62
    8    -    Jameis Winston    7.56
    9    -    Jay Cutler    7.49
    10    -    Teddy Bridgewater    7.26
    11    -    Derek Anderson    7.19
    12    -    Colt McCoy    7.1
    13    -    Cody Kessler    7.08
    14    -    Austin Davis    7.05
    15    -    Trevor Siemian    7
    16    -    Andrew Luck    6.98
    17    -    Case Keenum    6.96
    18    -    Joe Flacco    6.94
    19    -    Jake Locker    6.93
    20    -    Geno Smith    6.88
    21    -    Ryan Tannehill    6.81
    22    -    Mark Sanchez    6.71
    23    -    Vince Young    6.66
    24    -    Andy Dalton    6.59
    25    -    JaMarcus Russell    6.58
    26    -    Brandon Weeden    6.55
    27    -    Tarvaris Jackson    6.5
    28    -    Jason Campbell    6.47
    29    -    EJ Manuel    6.44
    30    -    Josh Freeman    6.4
    31    -    Chad Henne    6.38
    32    -    Tim Tebow    6.38
    33    -    Christian Ponder    6.37
    34    -    Curtis Painter    6.34
    35    -    Mike Glennon    6.27
    36    -    Carson Wentz    6.23
    37    -    Tyler Thigpen    6.21
    38    -    Blake Bortles    6.12
    39    -    Kellen Clemens    6.12
    40    -    Trent Edwards    6.06
    41    -    Matthew Stafford    6.01
    42    -    Sam Bradford    5.95
    43    -    Derek Carr    5.46
    44    -    Blaine Gabbert    5.36
    45    -    Jimmy Clausen    5.21
    Yards per game

    Code:
    Rank    -    Player    Y/G
    1    -    Andrew Luck    273.4
    2    -    Cam Newton    253.2
    3    -    Jameis Winston    252.6
    4    -    Trevor Siemian    242.9
    5    -    Derek Anderson    236.7
    6    -    Carson Wentz    236.4
    7    -    Marcus Mariota    234.8
    8    -    Dak Prescott    229.2
    9    -    Matthew Stafford    226.7
    10    -    Brandon Weeden    225.7
    11    -    Teddy Bridgewater    224.5
    12    -    Nick Foles    222.4
    13    -    Case Keenum    220
    14    -    Sam Bradford    219.5
    15    -    Jay Cutler    218.6
    16    -    Matt Ryan    215
    17    -    Robert Griffin    213.3
    18    -    Andy Dalton    212.4
    19    -    Jason Campbell    207.7
    20    -    Blake Bortles    207.7
    21    -    Ryan Tannehill    205.9
    22    -    Chad Henne    205.6
    23    -    Derek Carr    204.4
    24    -    Mike Glennon    200.6
    25    -    Austin Davis    200.1
    26    -    Jake Locker    197.8
    27    -    EJ Manuel    197.2
    28    -    Colt McCoy    197
    29    -    Russell Wilson    194.9
    30    -    Geno Smith    190.4
    31    -    Tyler Thigpen    186.3
    32    -    Joe Flacco    185.7
    33    -    Josh Freeman    185.5
    34    -    Curtis Painter    171.2
    35    -    Vince Young    169.7
    36    -    Christian Ponder    168.5
    37    -    Trent Edwards    163
    38    -    Mark Sanchez    162.9
    39    -    JaMarcus Russell    161.5
    40    -    Tarvaris Jackson    159.3
    41    -    Cody Kessler    153.3
    42    -    Kellen Clemens    152.9
    43    -    Blaine Gabbert    147.6
    44    -    Tim Tebow    123.5
    45    -    Jimmy Clausen    119.8
    
    
    Touchdowns

    Code:
    Rank    -    Player    TD
    1    -    Derek Anderson    29
    2    -    Nick Foles    27
    3    -    Russell Wilson    26
    4    -    Andrew Luck    23
    5    -    Dak Prescott    23
    6    -    Jameis Winston    22
    7    -    Cam Newton    21
    8    -    Derek Carr    21
    9    -    Jay Cutler    20
    10    -    Robert Griffin    20
    11    -    Andy Dalton    20
    12    -    Marcus Mariota    19
    13    -    Mike Glennon    19
    14    -    Trevor Siemian    18
    15    -    Sam Bradford    18
    16    -    Tyler Thigpen    18
    17    -    Carson Wentz    16
    18    -    Matt Ryan    16
    19    -    Brandon Weeden    14
    20    -    Teddy Bridgewater    14
    21    -    Joe Flacco    14
    22    -    Matthew Stafford    13
    23    -    Christian Ponder    13
    24    -    JaMarcus Russell    13
    25    -    Jason Campbell    12
    26    -    Ryan Tannehill    12
    27    -    Chad Henne    12
    28    -    Austin Davis    12
    29    -    Geno Smith    12
    30    -    Mark Sanchez    12
    31    -    Blaine Gabbert    12
    32    -    Tim Tebow    12
    33    -    Blake Bortles    11
    34    -    EJ Manuel    11
    35    -    Jake Locker    10
    36    -    Josh Freeman    10
    37    -    Case Keenum    9
    38    -    Vince Young    9
    39    -    Tarvaris Jackson    9
    40    -    Trent Edwards    7
    41    -    Colt McCoy    6
    42    -    Curtis Painter    6
    43    -    Cody Kessler    6
    44    -    Kellen Clemens    5
    45    -    Jimmy Clausen    3
    
    
    Interception %

    Code:
    Rank    -    Player    Int%
    1    -    Nick Foles    0.63
    2    -    Dak Prescott    0.87
    3    -    Cody Kessler    1.03
    4    -    Robert Griffin    1.27
    5    -    Derek Carr    2
    6    -    Trevor Siemian    2.06
    7    -    Mike Glennon    2.16
    8    -    JaMarcus Russell    2.17
    9    -    Tim Tebow    2.21
    10    -    Carson Wentz    2.31
    11    -    Case Keenum    2.37
    12    -    Andy Dalton    2.52
    13    -    Matt Ryan    2.53
    14    -    Sam Bradford    2.54
    15    -    Russell Wilson    2.54
    16    -    Jason Campbell    2.64
    17    -    Blaine Gabbert    2.66
    18    -    Ryan Tannehill    2.69
    19    -    Marcus Mariota    2.7
    20    -    Joe Flacco    2.8
    21    -    Jameis Winston    2.8
    22    -    Tyler Thigpen    2.86
    23    -    Andrew Luck    2.87
    24    -    EJ Manuel    2.94
    25    -    Trent Edwards    2.97
    26    -    Teddy Bridgewater    2.99
    27    -    Jay Cutler    3
    28    -    Jimmy Clausen    3.01
    29    -    Chad Henne    3.1
    30    -    Austin Davis    3.17
    31    -    Brandon Weeden    3.29
    32    -    Cam Newton    3.29
    33    -    Jake Locker    3.5
    34    -    Blake Bortles    3.58
    35    -    Derek Anderson    3.61
    36    -    Curtis Painter    3.7
    37    -    Kellen Clemens    4
    38    -    Colt McCoy    4.05
    39    -    Tarvaris Jackson    4.08
    40    -    Vince Young    4.45
    41    -    Christian Ponder    4.47
    42    -    Geno Smith    4.74
    43    -    Matthew Stafford    5.31
    44    -    Mark Sanchez    5.49
    45    -    Josh Freeman    6.21
    
    
    Last edited by Tned; 08-22-2017 at 12:02 AM.


  2. #2
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    Here's the rest:

    Wins

    Code:
    Rank    -    Player    W    L
    1    -    Dak Prescott    13    3
    2    -    Russell Wilson    11    5
    3    -    Matt Ryan    11    5
    4    -    Andrew Luck    11    5
    5    -    Joe Flacco    11    5
    6    -    Derek Anderson    10    5
    7    -    Robert Griffin    9    6
    8    -    Andy Dalton    9    7
    9    -    Vince Young    9    6
    10    -    Nick Foles    8    2
    11    -    Trevor Siemian    8    6
    12    -    Tarvaris Jackson    8    4
    13    -    Geno Smith    8    8
    14    -    Mark Sanchez    8    7
    15    -    Jay Cutler    7    9
    16    -    Tim Tebow    7    4
    17    -    Ryan Tannehill    7    9
    18    -    Carson Wentz    7    9
    19    -    Chad Henne    7    6
    20    -    Sam Bradford    7    9
    21    -    Cam Newton    6    10
    22    -    Jameis Winston    6    10
    23    -    Teddy Bridgewater    6    6
    24    -    Jason Campbell    6    7
    25    -    JaMarcus Russell    5    10
    26    -    Brandon Weeden    5    10
    27    -    Trent Edwards    5    4
    28    -    Mike Glennon    4    9
    29    -    Jake Locker    4    7
    30    -    EJ Manuel    4    6
    31    -    Blaine Gabbert    4    10
    32    -    Marcus Mariota    3    9
    33    -    Austin Davis    3    5
    34    -    Derek Carr    3    13
    35    -    Blake Bortles    3    10
    36    -    Kellen Clemens    3    5
    37    -    Josh Freeman    3    6
    38    -    Colt McCoy    2    6
    39    -    Christian Ponder    2    8
    40    -    Matthew Stafford    2    8
    41    -    Tyler Thigpen    1    10
    42    -    Jimmy Clausen    1    9
    43    -    Cody Kessler    0    8
    44    -    Case Keenum    0    8
    45    -    Curtis Painter    0    8
    
    
    4th Quarter Comebacks
    Code:
    
    Rk    -    Player    Year    4th QTR Comback
    1    -    Dak Prescott    2016    5
    2    -    Andrew Luck    2012    4
    3    -    Andy Dalton    2011    4
    4    -    Trevor Siemian    2016    3
    4    -    Chad Henne    2009    3
    4    -    Robert Griffin    2012    3
    4    -    Russell Wilson    2012    3
    4    -    Teddy Bridgewater    2014    3
    9    -    Derek Anderson    2007    2
    10    -    Geno Smith    2013    2
    11    -    Jameis Winston    2015    2
    12    -    Jay Cutler    2007    2
    13    -    Josh Freeman    2009    2
    14    -    Marcus Mariota    2015    2
    15    -    Matt Ryan    2008    2
    16    -    Mike Glennon    2013    2
    17    -    Tom Savage    2016    2
    18    -    Austin Davis    2014    1
    19    -    Blake Bortles    2014    1
    20    -    Colin Kaepernick    2012    1
    21    -    Colt McCoy    2011    1
    22    -    Derek Carr    2014    1
    23    -    EJ Manuel    2013    1
    24    -    Greg McElroy    2012    1
    25    -    Jason Campbell    2007    1
    26    -    Joe Flacco    2008    1
    27    -    Kellen Clemens    2007    1
    28    -    Kirk Cousins    2012    1
    29    -    Luke McCown    2007    1
    30    -    Matt Leinart    2007    1
    31    -    Nick Foles    2012    1
    32    -    Stephen McGee    2010    1
    33    -    Tarvaris Jackson    2007    1
    34    -    Thaddeus Lewis    2013    1
    35    -    Trent Edwards    2007    1
    300 Yard Games

    Code:
    Rk    -    Player    300 Yard Games
    1    -    Andrew Luck    6
    2    -    Carson Wentz    4
    3    -    Trevor Siemian    3
    3    -    Teddy Bridgewater    3
    3    -    Brandon Weeden    3
    3    -    Robert Griffin    3
    3    -    Cam Newton    3
    3    -    Chad Henne    3
    9    -    Dak Prescott    2
    9    -    Jameis Winston    2
    9    -    Marcus Mariota    2
    9    -    Austin Davis    2
    9    -    Jake Locker    2
    9    -    Nick Foles    2
    9    -    Andy Dalton    2
    9    -    John Skelton    2
    9    -    Matt Ryan    2
    9    -    Derek Anderson    2
    9    -    Jay Cutler    2
    20    -    Cody Kessler    1
    21    -    Johnny Manziel    1
    22    -    Kellen Moore    1
    23    -    Blake Bortles    1
    24    -    Derek Carr    1
    25    -    Mike Glennon    1
    26    -    Ryan Lindley    1
    27    -    Zach Mettenberger    1
    28    -    Case Keenum    1
    29    -    Geno Smith    1
    30    -    Scott Tolzien    1
    31    -    Kirk Cousins    1
    32    -    Ryan Lindley    1
    33    -    Ryan Tannehill    1
    34    -    Christian Ponder    1
    35    -    Colt McCoy    1
    36    -    T.J. Yates    1
    37    -    Sam Bradford    1
    38    -    Tim Tebow    1
    39    -    Josh Freeman    1
    40    -    Matthew Stafford    1
    41    -    Tyler Thigpen    1
    42    -    Luke McCown    1
    
    
    Completion %

    Code:
    Rank    -    Player    Cmp%
    1    -    Dak Prescott    67.76
    2    -    Robert Griffin    65.65
    3    -    Cody Kessler    65.64
    4    -    Teddy Bridgewater    64.43
    5    -    Russell Wilson    64.12
    6    -    Nick Foles    64.04
    7    -    Jay Cutler    63.6
    8    -    Austin Davis    63.38
    9    -    Carson Wentz    62.44
    10    -    Vince Young    62.3
    11    -    Marcus Mariota    62.16
    12    -    Matt Ryan    61.06
    13    -    Colt McCoy    60.81
    14    -    Chad Henne    60.75
    15    -    Joe Flacco    60.05
    16    -    Sam Bradford    60
    17    -    Cam Newton    59.96
    18    -    Jason Campbell    59.95
    19    -    Trevor Siemian    59.47
    20    -    Mike Glennon    59.38
    21    -    Blake Bortles    58.95
    22    -    EJ Manuel    58.82
    23    -    Jameis Winston    58.32
    24    -    Ryan Tannehill    58.26
    25    -    Tarvaris Jackson    58.16
    26    -    Andy Dalton    58.14
    27    -    Derek Carr    58.1
    28    -    Brandon Weeden    57.45
    29    -    Derek Anderson    56.55
    30    -    Jake Locker    56.37
    31    -    Trent Edwards    56.13
    32    -    Geno Smith    55.76
    33    -    Tyler Thigpen    54.76
    34    -    Josh Freeman    54.48
    35    -    Curtis Painter    54.32
    36    -    Christian Ponder    54.3
    37    -    Case Keenum    54.15
    38    -    Andrew Luck    54.07
    39    -    Mark Sanchez    53.85
    40    -    JaMarcus Russell    53.8
    41    -    Matthew Stafford    53.32
    42    -    Jimmy Clausen    52.51
    43    -    Kellen Clemens    52
    44    -    Blaine Gabbert    50.85
    45    -    Tim Tebow    46.49
    
    

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  4. #3
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    Ok, for each of those categories, here are some of the big names or very high draft picks that rank below Siemian in each category (just eyeballed it so could easily have missed some).

    This isn't everyone below him, because on average there were about 32 first year starters worse than him in each category, but instead this is just some selected elite QBs or big name/high draft picks.

    Rating better than:
    Newton
    Winston
    Dalton
    Flacco
    Wentz
    Carr
    Luck
    Tannehill
    Stafford
    Young
    Sanchez


    Season Yards
    Dalton
    Tannehill
    Carr
    RG3
    Wilson
    Flacco
    Bridgewater
    Foles
    Mariota
    Glennon
    Young
    Stafford
    Sanchez


    Yards per attempt
    Luck
    Flacco
    Tannehill
    Young
    Wenz
    Stafford
    Carr


    Yards per game
    Wentz
    Mariota
    Prescott
    Stafford
    Bridgewater
    Foles
    Cutler
    Ryan
    Dalton
    RG3
    Tannehill
    Carr
    Wilson
    Flacco
    Young
    Sanchez


    Touchdowns
    Bradford
    Wentz
    Ryan
    Bridgewater
    Flacco
    Stafford
    Tannehill
    Sanchez
    Young


    Interception %
    Wentz
    Dalton
    Ryan
    Bradford
    Wilson
    Tannehill
    Mariota
    Flacco
    Winston
    Luck
    Bridgewater
    Cutler
    Newton
    Young
    Stafford


    Wins
    Sanchez
    Cutler
    Tannehill
    Wentz
    Bradford
    Newton
    Winston
    Bridgewater
    Russel
    Mariota
    Carr
    Stafford


    4th QTR comebacks
    Winston
    Cutler
    Mariota
    Ryan
    Carr
    Flacco


    300 yard games
    Prescott
    Winston
    Mariota
    Foles
    Dalton
    Ryan
    Cutler
    Tannehill
    Bradford
    Stafford


    Completion %
    Winston
    Tanneill
    Dalton
    Carr
    Luck
    Sanchez
    Stafford

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  6. #4
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    But Trevor's slowed down a lot since college: https://www.insidenu.com/platform/am...rn-quarterback

    :p

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    From the Broncos media guide, a few highlights from his season as it relates to best ever in Denver.


    1. Totaled three games with at least 300 yards passing in 2016 to represent the second-high-est total by a quarterback in his first season starting for the Broncos.
    2. Became the first quarterback in NFL history with 300 passing yards, four passing touch-downs and zero interceptions in his first career road start, accomplishing that feat at Cincinnati (9/26/16).
    3. Topped 350 yards passing and three touchdowns without an interception vs. Kansas City (11/27/16) to join Peyton Manning (4x) and John Elway (1x) as the only players in team history to post those numbers in a single game.

  8. #6
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    I like it. Just fix the Brian Griese Syndrome (throwing 2 yards short of the marker on 3rd down) and I'm all in. I actually think T-Sim has a ton of potential.
    Let's Rid3!!!!

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  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazoe60 View Post
    I like it. Just fix the Brian Griese Syndrome (throwing 2 yards short of the marker on 3rd down) and I'm all in. I actually think T-Sim has a ton of potential.
    I'm hoping that was due to scheme, play calling and horrible protection, but regardless, I'm with you on it needing to get better.

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    I am a huge Trevor fan, and I taste the rainbow everyday...... But I can't help wonder how many of those " Good" quarterbacks he graded out higher than, were just on really bad teams?

    He had bad protection last year, but did have a Superbowl calibre defense and also elite receivers

    What's your thoughts T?

  12. #9
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    It makes a difference. Someone mentioned Steve Young and Tampa Bay. His record with them was like 5-25, but with SF it was something like 150-25, ridiculous. Stats mismatched, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    I am a huge Trevor fan, and I taste the rainbow everyday...... But I can't help wonder how many of those " Good" quarterbacks he graded out higher than, were just on really bad teams?

    He had bad protection last year, but did have a Superbowl calibre defense and also elite receivers

    What's your thoughts T?
    Trevor had two elite receivers, but beyond them the receiving corps was subpar. He had no true
    slot receiver and little help from the TEs. And don't forget that offensive offensive line (if you get
    my drift) and weak running game.
    Though He slay me, I will trust in Him . . . (Job 13:15)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    I am a huge Trevor fan, and I taste the rainbow everyday...... But I can't help wonder how many of those " Good" quarterbacks he graded out higher than, were just on really bad teams?

    He had bad protection last year, but did have a Superbowl calibre defense and also elite receivers

    What's your thoughts T?
    In terms of wins, absolutely, the defense clearly helped. On the rest, the Broncos pass protection and 27th ranked rushing attack did little to help Siemian.

    While DT and Sanders are elite, the slot and tight ends were far from elite, and the horrible pass protection and lack of run game meant he was hard pressed to have the time to get the ball to the only two elite guys on offense.

    It's also worth noting that while they were defending Supet Bowl champs, the defense was many catalyst for super bowl win, not offense. They didn't hand Siemian the keys to a Ferrari.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topscribe View Post
    Trevor had two elite receivers, but beyond them the receiving corps was subpar. He had no true
    slot receiver and little help from the TEs. And don't forget that offensive offensive line (if you get
    my drift) and weak running game.
    Damn, you scooped all my points as I was pecking them out on a tablet while in bed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tned View Post
    Damn, you scooped all my points as I was pecking them out on a tablet while in bed.
    Check your MHS.
    Though He slay me, I will trust in Him . . . (Job 13:15)


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    Quote Originally Posted by topscribe View Post
    Trevor had two elite receivers, but beyond them the receiving corps was subpar. He had no true
    slot receiver and little help from the TEs. And don't forget that offensive offensive line (if you get
    my drift) and weak running game.
    ESPN or NFL.com had Denver's receiving corps ranked in the top 5 last year. I get your point, Norwood, Fowler, Sunshine, Green, and Booker weren't pro-bowl options. Darby had a few targets late in the season but it was a thimble in an ocean. But when you balance it out, most QBs would love to have elite options 1 and 2 at the expense of average to below average options 3-5. I just don't see this as a worthwhile caveat for last year, even if what you say is technically valid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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    The run game, pass pro, and injury are all relevant factors. Let's hope we aren't making excuses this year, eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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