Thread: Sell me on a Bronco QB.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Geek fight!

Yeah and you stepped in and got smooshed.

Biggest think for any ypung QB is to overcome sophmore slump. Good QBs even struggle in year too. Others overcpme and some fail. This is what siemian is up against as well.

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

Biggest think for any ypung QB is to overcome sophmore slump. Good QBs even struggle in year too. Others overcpme and some fail. This is what siemian is up against as well.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Because I was told earlier this week that it was unfair to compare Siemian to anything but quarterbacks in their first full year of starting, I did that with the Football Outsiders numbers for all of the quarterbacks on the +200 attempts chart from 2016.

The first chart is ranked by DYAR, which is essentially FO's WAR:

Code:

Player    	Team	DYAR	Rk	YAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk	VOA	QBR	Rk	Pass	Yards	EYds	TD	FK	FL	INT	C%
D.Prescott	DAL	1,302	4	1,220	5	31.6%	3	28.9%	81.5	3	483	3,527	4,229	23	2	4	4	68.1%
K.Cousins	WAS	1,023	7	1,125	5	16.9%	6	19.7%	70.1	6	570	3,979	4,329	29	2	3	11	69.8%
M.Ryan       	ATL	1,012	7	875	7	25.3%	4	20.3%	74.1	3	451	3,330	3,609	16	3	1	11	61.3%
B.Rothlsbrgr	PIT	908	11	843	10	31.7%	3	28.7%	0.0	0	326	2,393	2,942	17	0	2	10	67.2%
P.Rivers	SD	891	6	931	6	17.4%	9	18.7%	0.0	0	490	3,203	3,724	22	4	2	9	62.4%
R.Wilson	SEA	872	8	741	12	19.7%	6	15.0%	69.6	8	432	2,935	3,467	26	3	3	9	64.6%
C.Kaepernick	SF	791	8	650	13	16.6%	7	11.7%	68.6	7	456	2,969	3,358	21	1	3	7	58.4%
A.Rodgers	GB	708	12	746	10	8.5%	14	9.6%	66.9	8*	569	3,775	3,859	28	6	3	13	64.5%
E.Manning	NYG	632	9	610	11	6.0%	17	5.4%	0.0	0	585	3,573	3,840	24	6	2	17	52.9%
A.Dalton	CIN	575	12	485	12	5.6%	13	3.0%	45.6	26	540	3,224	3,550	20	1	2	13	58.3%
T.Taylor	BUF	536	14	486	16	9.8%	8	7.9%	67.8	7	417	2,810	2,790	20	5	1	6	63.7%
T.Brady       	NE	491	13	494	12	5.4%	12	5.5%	0.0	0	456	2,625	3,059	18	9	3	11	64.1%
J.Winston	TB	467	16	495	15	2.1%	16	2.9%	58.6	21	560	3,828	3,480	22	2	1	15	58.9%
C.Newton	CAR	404	15	428	13	0.8%	16	1.5%	55.0	18	551	3,810	3,287	21	3	2	17	60.3%
C.Palmer     	CIN	393	17	206	18	2.6%	16	-4.0%	0.0	0	453	2,682	2,845	18	0	2	18	62.5%
D.Brees      	SD	344	21	430	18	-1.3%	25	1.2%	0.0	0	548	3,104	3,279	17	2	0	15	61.1%
A.Luck        	IND	257	19	366	17	-5.1%	19	-2.6%	65.0	11	662	4,089	3,793	23	5	5	17	55.0%
J.Flacco	BAL	232	19	133	25	-3.0%	22	-6.5%	43.2	29	461	2,729	2,606	14	5	2	11	60.4%
B.Hoyer      	CLE	166	25	255	21	-5.3%	26	-2.2%	43.1	31	465	3,170	2,513	12	2	1	12	55.7%
T.Siemian	DEN	137	22	214	21	-7.1%	21	-4.8%	55.8	21	516	3,182	2,891	18	1	2	9	59.6%
C.Kessler	CLE	50	24	80	25	-7.6%	22	-5.4%	49.6	28	218	1,225	1,196	6	3	1	2	66.0%
R.Tannehill	MIA	39	25	86	24	-9.9%	25	-8.5%	52.3	19	517	3,069	2,694	12	2	3	13	58.5%
M.Barkley	CHI	4	26	127	23	-10.9%	26	-2.2%	39.2	33	222	1,568	1,150	8	0	2	13	59.7%
C.Wentz     	PHI	-36	27	12	26	-12.0%	27	-10.8%	52.8	26	641	3,580	3,254	16	5	2	14	62.7%
M.Mariota	TEN	-53	30	123	23	-13.2%	28	-6.4%	61.0	16	407	2,551	2,017	19	3	6	10	62.5%
A.Smith      	SF	-147	38	-140	38	-16.0%	35	-15.8%	0.0	0	477	2,694	2,233	16	5	2	16	59.0%
D.Carr        	OAK	-150	37	-355	41	-14.9%	34	-20.1%	38.4	34	622	3,071	2,969	21	5	4	12	58.9%
S.Bradford	STL	-178	39	-5	34	-15.6%	34	-11.3%	41.5	30	622	3,262	3,006	18	5	2	13	60.4%
C.Keenum	LARM	-183	31	-174	31	-19.5%	31	-19.1%	43.4	32	345	2,054	1,507	9	2	1	11	60.9%
R.Fitzpatrick	CIN	-315	37	-457	41	-22.9%	35	-28.1%	38.1	33	408	1,707	1,736	8	4	4	8	59.7%
B.Osweiler	HOU	-558	33	-502	33	-26.8%	33	-25.3%	55.3	22	535	2,739	2,105	15	3	1	15	59.5%
M.Stafford	DET	-653	45	-497	43	-36.6%	41	-30.6%	30.0	37	394	2,091	1,178	13	3	1	20	54.5%
J.Goff         	LARM	-881	34	-819	34	-74.8%	34	-70.3%	22.2	34	230	876	-85	5	3	2	7	54.9%
B.Bortles	JAC	-955	44	-935	44	-40.7%	43	-40.0%	21.9	43	530	2,554	1,310	11	5	0	16	59.1%

Second is DVOA, which is essentially effectiveness of each play adjusted for down, distance, opponent and a whole lot of other variables.

Code:

Player    	Team	DYAR	Rk	YAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk	VOA	QBR	Rk	Pass	Yards	EYds	TD	FK	FL	INT	C%
B.Rothlsbrgr	PIT	908	11	843	10	31.7%	3	28.7%	0.0	0	326	2,393	2,942	17	0	2	10	67.2%
D.Prescott	DAL	1,302	4	1,220	5	31.6%	3	28.9%	81.5	3	483	3,527	4,229	23	2	4	4	68.1%
M.Ryan       	ATL	1,012	7	875	7	25.3%	4	20.3%	74.1	3	451	3,330	3,609	16	3	1	11	61.3%
R.Wilson	SEA	872	8	741	12	19.7%	6	15.0%	69.6	8	432	2,935	3,467	26	3	3	9	64.6%
P.Rivers	SD	891	6	931	6	17.4%	9	18.7%	0.0	0	490	3,203	3,724	22	4	2	9	62.4%
K.Cousins	WAS	1,023	7	1,125	5	16.9%	6	19.7%	70.1	6	570	3,979	4,329	29	2	3	11	69.8%
C.Kaepernick	SF	791	8	650	13	16.6%	7	11.7%	68.6	7	456	2,969	3,358	21	1	3	7	58.4%
T.Taylor	BUF	536	14	486	16	9.8%	8	7.9%	67.8	7	417	2,810	2,790	20	5	1	6	63.7%
A.Rodgers	GB	708	12	746	10	8.5%	14	9.6%	66.9	8*	569	3,775	3,859	28	6	3	13	64.5%
E.Manning	NYG	632	9	610	11	6.0%	17	5.4%	0.0	0	585	3,573	3,840	24	6	2	17	52.9%
A.Dalton	CIN	575	12	485	12	5.6%	13	3.0%	45.6	26	540	3,224	3,550	20	1	2	13	58.3%
T.Brady       	NE	491	13	494	12	5.4%	12	5.5%	0.0	0	456	2,625	3,059	18	9	3	11	64.1%
C.Palmer	CIN	393	17	206	18	2.6%	16	-4.0%	0.0	0	453	2,682	2,845	18	0	2	18	62.5%
J.Winston	TB	467	16	495	15	2.1%	16	2.9%	58.6	21	560	3,828	3,480	22	2	1	15	58.9%
C.Newton	CAR	404	15	428	13	0.8%	16	1.5%	55.0	18	551	3,810	3,287	21	3	2	17	60.3%
D.Brees      	SD	344	21	430	18	-1.3%	25	1.2%	0.0	0	548	3,104	3,279	17	2	0	15	61.1%
J.Flacco	BAL	232	19	133	25	-3.0%	22	-6.5%	43.2	29	461	2,729	2,606	14	5	2	11	60.4%
A.Luck        	IND	257	19	366	17	-5.1%	19	-2.6%	65.0	11	662	4,089	3,793	23	5	5	17	55.0%
B.Hoyer      	CLE	166	25	255	21	-5.3%	26	-2.2%	43.1	31	465	3,170	2,513	12	2	1	12	55.7%
T.Siemian	DEN	137	22	214	21	-7.1%	21	-4.8%	55.8	21	516	3,182	2,891	18	1	2	9	59.6%
C.Kessler	CLE	50	24	80	25	-7.6%	22	-5.4%	49.6	28	218	1,225	1,196	6	3	1	2	66.0%
R.Tannehill	MIA	39	25	86	24	-9.9%	25	-8.5%	52.3	19	517	3,069	2,694	12	2	3	13	58.5%
M.Barkley	CHI	4	26	127	23	-10.9%	26	-2.2%	39.2	33	222	1,568	1,150	8	0	2	13	59.7%
C.Wentz     	PHI	-36	27	12	26	-12.0%	27	-10.8%	52.8	26	641	3,580	3,254	16	5	2	14	62.7%
M.Mariota	TEN	-53	30	123	23	-13.2%	28	-6.4%	61.0	16	407	2,551	2,017	19	3	6	10	62.5%
D.Carr        	OAK	-150	37	-355	41	-14.9%	34	-20.1%	38.4	34	622	3,071	2,969	21	5	4	12	58.9%
S.Bradford	STL	-178	39	-5	34	-15.6%	34	-11.3%	41.5	30	622	3,262	3,006	18	5	2	13	60.4%
A.Smith      	SF	-147	38	-140	38	-16.0%	35	-15.8%	0.0	0	477	2,694	2,233	16	5	2	16	59.0%
C.Keenum	LARM	-183	31	-174	31	-19.5%	31	-19.1%	43.4	32	345	2,054	1,507	9	2	1	11	60.9%
R.Fitzpatrick	CIN	-315	37	-457	41	-22.9%	35	-28.1%	38.1	33	408	1,707	1,736	8	4	4	8	59.7%
B.Osweiler	HOU	-558	33	-502	33	-26.8%	33	-25.3%	55.3	22	535	2,739	2,105	15	3	1	15	59.5%
M.Stafford	DET	-653	45	-497	43	-36.6%	41	-30.6%	30.0	37	394	2,091	1,178	13	3	1	20	54.5%
B.Bortles	JAC	-955	44	-935	44	-40.7%	43	-40.0%	21.9	43	530	2,554	1,310	11	5	0	16	59.1%
J.Goff         	LARM	-881	34	-819	34	-74.8%	34	-70.3%	22.2	34	230	876	-85	5	3	2	7	54.9%

Third is VOA, DVOA without some variables, most notably, the strength of the opponent.

Code:

Player    	Team	DYAR	Rk	YAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk	VOA	QBR	Rk	Pass	Yards	EYds	TD	FK	FL	INT	C%
D.Prescott	DAL	1,302	4	1,220	5	31.6%	3	28.9%	81.5	3	483	3,527	4,229	23	2	4	4	68.1%
B.Rothlsbrgr	PIT	908	11	843	10	31.7%	3	28.7%	0.0	0	326	2,393	2,942	17	0	2	10	67.2%
M.Ryan       	ATL	1,012	7	875	7	25.3%	4	20.3%	74.1	3	451	3,330	3,609	16	3	1	11	61.3%
K.Cousins	WAS	1,023	7	1,125	5	16.9%	6	19.7%	70.1	6	570	3,979	4,329	29	2	3	11	69.8%
P.Rivers	SD	891	6	931	6	17.4%	9	18.7%	0.0	0	490	3,203	3,724	22	4	2	9	62.4%
R.Wilson	SEA	872	8	741	12	19.7%	6	15.0%	69.6	8	432	2,935	3,467	26	3	3	9	64.6%
C.Kaepernick	SF	791	8	650	13	16.6%	7	11.7%	68.6	7	456	2,969	3,358	21	1	3	7	58.4%
A.Rodgers	GB	708	12	746	10	8.5%	14	9.6%	66.9	8*	569	3,775	3,859	28	6	3	13	64.5%
T.Taylor	BUF	536	14	486	16	9.8%	8	7.9%	67.8	7	417	2,810	2,790	20	5	1	6	63.7%
T.Brady       	NE	491	13	494	12	5.4%	12	5.5%	0.0	0	456	2,625	3,059	18	9	3	11	64.1%
E.Manning	NYG	632	9	610	11	6.0%	17	5.4%	0.0	0	585	3,573	3,840	24	6	2	17	52.9%
A.Dalton	CIN	575	12	485	12	5.6%	13	3.0%	45.6	26	540	3,224	3,550	20	1	2	13	58.3%
J.Winston	TB	467	16	495	15	2.1%	16	2.9%	58.6	21	560	3,828	3,480	22	2	1	15	58.9%
C.Newton	CAR	404	15	428	13	0.8%	16	1.5%	55.0	18	551	3,810	3,287	21	3	2	17	60.3%
D.Brees      	SD	344	21	430	18	-1.3%	25	1.2%	0.0	0	548	3,104	3,279	17	2	0	15	61.1%
B.Hoyer      	CLE	166	25	255	21	-5.3%	26	-2.2%	43.1	31	465	3,170	2,513	12	2	1	12	55.7%
M.Barkley	CHI	4	26	127	23	-10.9%	26	-2.2%	39.2	33	222	1,568	1,150	8	0	2	13	59.7%
A.Luck        	IND	257	19	366	17	-5.1%	19	-2.6%	65.0	11	662	4,089	3,793	23	5	5	17	55.0%
C.Palmer	CIN	393	17	206	18	2.6%	16	-4.0%	0.0	0	453	2,682	2,845	18	0	2	18	62.5%
T.Siemian	DEN	137	22	214	21	-7.1%	21	-4.8%	55.8	21	516	3,182	2,891	18	1	2	9	59.6%
C.Kessler	CLE	50	24	80	25	-7.6%	22	-5.4%	49.6	28	218	1,225	1,196	6	3	1	2	66.0%
M.Mariota	TEN	-53	30	123	23	-13.2%	28	-6.4%	61.0	16	407	2,551	2,017	19	3	6	10	62.5%
J.Flacco      	BAL	232	19	133	25	-3.0%	22	-6.5%	43.2	29	461	2,729	2,606	14	5	2	11	60.4%
R.Tannehill	MIA	39	25	86	24	-9.9%	25	-8.5%	52.3	19	517	3,069	2,694	12	2	3	13	58.5%
C.Wentz     	PHI	-36	27	12	26	-12.0%	27	-10.8%	52.8	26	641	3,580	3,254	16	5	2	14	62.7%
S.Bradford	STL	-178	39	-5	34	-15.6%	34	-11.3%	41.5	30	622	3,262	3,006	18	5	2	13	60.4%
A.Smith      	SF	-147	38	-140	38	-16.0%	35	-15.8%	0.0	0	477	2,694	2,233	16	5	2	16	59.0%
C.Keenum	LARM	-183	31	-174	31	-19.5%	31	-19.1%	43.4	32	345	2,054	1,507	9	2	1	11	60.9%
D.Carr        	OAK	-150	37	-355	41	-14.9%	34	-20.1%	38.4	34	622	3,071	2,969	21	5	4	12	58.9%
B.Osweiler	HOU	-558	33	-502	33	-26.8%	33	-25.3%	55.3	22	535	2,739	2,105	15	3	1	15	59.5%
R.Fitzpatrick	CIN	-315	37	-457	41	-22.9%	35	-28.1%	38.1	33	408	1,707	1,736	8	4	4	8	59.7%
M.Stafford	DET	-653	45	-497	43	-36.6%	41	-30.6%	30.0	37	394	2,091	1,178	13	3	1	20	54.5%
B.Bortles	JAC	-955	44	-935	44	-40.7%	43	-40.0%	21.9	43	530	2,554	1,310	11	5	0	16	59.1%
J.Goff         	LARM	-881	34	-819	34	-74.8%	34	-70.3%	22.2	34	230	876	-85	5	3	2	7	54.9%

EYDS, which is DVOA melded into a yard per play stat.

Code:

Player    	Team	DYAR	Rk	YAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk	VOA	QBR	Rk	Pass	Yards	EYds	TD	FK	FL	INT	C%
K.Cousins	WAS	1,023	7	1,125	5	16.9%	6	19.7%	70.1	6	570	3,979	4,329	29	2	3	11	69.8%
D.Prescott	DAL	1,302	4	1,220	5	31.6%	3	28.9%	81.5	3	483	3,527	4,229	23	2	4	4	68.1%
A.Rodgers	GB	708	12	746	10	8.5%	14	9.6%	66.9	8*	569	3,775	3,859	28	6	3	13	64.5%
E.Manning	NYG	632	9	610	11	6.0%	17	5.4%	0.0	0	585	3,573	3,840	24	6	2	17	52.9%
A.Luck        	IND	257	19	366	17	-5.1%	19	-2.6%	65.0	11	662	4,089	3,793	23	5	5	17	55.0%
P.Rivers	SD	891	6	931	6	17.4%	9	18.7%	0.0	0	490	3,203	3,724	22	4	2	9	62.4%
M.Ryan       	ATL	1,012	7	875	7	25.3%	4	20.3%	74.1	3	451	3,330	3,609	16	3	1	11	61.3%
A.Dalton	CIN	575	12	485	12	5.6%	13	3.0%	45.6	26	540	3,224	3,550	20	1	2	13	58.3%
J.Winston	TB	467	16	495	15	2.1%	16	2.9%	58.6	21	560	3,828	3,480	22	2	1	15	58.9%
R.Wilson	SEA	872	8	741	12	19.7%	6	15.0%	69.6	8	432	2,935	3,467	26	3	3	9	64.6%
C.Kaepernick	SF	791	8	650	13	16.6%	7	11.7%	68.6	7	456	2,969	3,358	21	1	3	7	58.4%
C.Newton	CAR	404	15	428	13	0.8%	16	1.5%	55.0	18	551	3,810	3,287	21	3	2	17	60.3%
D.Brees      	SD	344	21	430	18	-1.3%	25	1.2%	0.0	0	548	3,104	3,279	17	2	0	15	61.1%
C.Wentz	PHI	-36	27	12	26	-12.0%	27	-10.8%	52.8	26	641	3,580	3,254	16	5	2	14	62.7%
T.Brady       	NE	491	13	494	12	5.4%	12	5.5%	0.0	0	456	2,625	3,059	18	9	3	11	64.1%
S.Bradford	STL	-178	39	-5	34	-15.6%	34	-11.3%	41.5	30	622	3,262	3,006	18	5	2	13	60.4%
D.Carr        	OAK	-150	37	-355	41	-14.9%	34	-20.1%	38.4	34	622	3,071	2,969	21	5	4	12	58.9%
B.Rothlsbrgr	PIT	908	11	843	10	31.7%	3	28.7%	0.0	0	326	2,393	2,942	17	0	2	10	67.2%
T.Siemian	DEN	137	22	214	21	-7.1%	21	-4.8%	55.8	21	516	3,182	2,891	18	1	2	9	59.6%
C.Palmer	CIN	393	17	206	18	2.6%	16	-4.0%	0.0	0	453	2,682	2,845	18	0	2	18	62.5%
T.Taylor	BUF	536	14	486	16	9.8%	8	7.9%	67.8	7	417	2,810	2,790	20	5	1	6	63.7%
R.Tannehill	MIA	39	25	86	24	-9.9%	25	-8.5%	52.3	19	517	3,069	2,694	12	2	3	13	58.5%
J.Flacco      	BAL	232	19	133	25	-3.0%	22	-6.5%	43.2	29	461	2,729	2,606	14	5	2	11	60.4%
B.Hoyer      	CLE	166	25	255	21	-5.3%	26	-2.2%	43.1	31	465	3,170	2,513	12	2	1	12	55.7%
A.Smith      	SF	-147	38	-140	38	-16.0%	35	-15.8%	0.0	0	477	2,694	2,233	16	5	2	16	59.0%
B.Osweiler	HOU	-558	33	-502	33	-26.8%	33	-25.3%	55.3	22	535	2,739	2,105	15	3	1	15	59.5%
M.Mariota	TEN	-53	30	123	23	-13.2%	28	-6.4%	61.0	16	407	2,551	2,017	19	3	6	10	62.5%
R.Fitzpatrick	CIN	-315	37	-457	41	-22.9%	35	-28.1%	38.1	33	408	1,707	1,736	8	4	4	8	59.7%
C.Keenum	LARM	-183	31	-174	31	-19.5%	31	-19.1%	43.4	32	345	2,054	1,507	9	2	1	11	60.9%
B.Bortles	JAC	-955	44	-935	44	-40.7%	43	-40.0%	21.9	43	530	2,554	1,310	11	5	0	16	59.1%
C.Kessler	CLE	50	24	80	25	-7.6%	22	-5.4%	49.6	28	218	1,225	1,196	6	3	1	2	66.0%
M.Stafford	DET	-653	45	-497	43	-36.6%	41	-30.6%	30.0	37	394	2,091	1,178	13	3	1	20	54.5%
M.Barkley	CHI	4	26	127	23	-10.9%	26	-2.2%	39.2	33	222	1,568	1,150	8	0	2	13	59.7%
J.Goff         	LARM	-881	34	-819	34	-74.8%	34	-70.3%	22.2	34	230	876	-85	5	3	2	7	54.9%

I don't think this is condemnation of Siemian. I don't think it's a crowning of Siemian, either. It is what it is. There is potential for him to be a decent quarterback, but I don't think he played well last year. He's not trash, he's not Tebow or Akili Smith. He's certainly a pleasant surprise as a seventh round pick, and I certainly hope he will be good as he is the person that I believe will be announced out of the tunnel on opening night and, as long as he's healthy, all 16 games this season. I don't think Lynch is ready (just a gut feeling, I haven't watched any of training camp), Sloter is training camp fodder and Kelly is going to be on IR, or the third quarterback.

It tells me he is Brian Hoyer, which I already knew because I have seen him play.

Originally Posted by slim

It tells me he is Brian Hoyer, which I already knew because I have seen him play.

Or Flacco, Stafford, Carr, Palmer or Luck.

Originally Posted by Tned

Or Flacco, Stafford, Carr, Palmer or Luck.

LOL, no.

Originally Posted by slim

LOL, no.

LOL, if you are going to base it on what MO posted, then yes. Statistically, he was in par or better than those QBs in their first year starting.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Nope, Siemian got blitzed, never said he didn't. I said that teams didn't have to blitz, and they didn't, not with that OL. Waste of energy. I discounted your "provec" (whatever the **** that means) stat because my joke was more relevant.

Btw, I didn't discount your original stat, I agreed with it. I high fived the post, Siemian good when blitzed, never said otherwise.

Now I understand why you can't interpret the same sources correctly.

As always, simply lashing out and mocking does not a substantiated point make.

I was replying on my phone, sorry for the typo, but hey, at least it gave you a chance to avoid a meaningful discussion and just take a caustic shot at someone.

As to your contention that teams didn't have to and didn't blitz due to the bad OL, here's some stats to counter your "pulled from Jaded's ass" opinion.

The rank I saw last night, put out by ESPN that I can't find now, showed I believe (going by memory now) that around 28% of Siemian's drop backs resulted in blitzes. There were only 11 QBs that were blitzed at a higher rate according to that chart.

Below, is the stat that Siemian took the fewest sacks in the NFL when blitzed, and shows that he was blitzed 167 times or roughly 12 times a game (which I guess in Jaded's world is almost never). Siemian averaged about 36 pass attempts a game, so that would represent being blitzed on about 1/3 of his pass attempts. I'm not sure what the difference is between the ESPN numbers and this calculation, but bottom line is that both stats show he was blitzed a lot.

Originally Posted by Tned

As always, simply lashing out and mocking does not a substantiated point make.

The rank I saw last night, put out by ESPN that I can't find now, showed I believe (going by memory now) that around 28% of Siemian's drop backs resulted in blitzes. There were only 11 QBs that were blitzed at a higher rate according to that chart.

Below, is the stat that Siemian took the fewest sacks in the NFL when blitzed, and shows that he was blitzed 167 times or roughly 12 times a game (which I guess in Jaded's world is almost never). Siemian averaged about 36 pass attempts a game, so that would represent being blitzed on about 1/3 of his pass attempts. I'm not sure what the difference is between the ESPN numbers and this calculation, but bottom line is that both stats show he was blitzed a lot.

A high five for the info, despite your being drawn into a pissing contest.

I might infer that Siemian was only the 12th most blitzed QB might be that the word got out pretty quickly that for a rookie he was pretty good against the blitz? Just a thought . . .

I think this is the epitome of the meaning of insanity.

(Thought I quoted Tned on starting Ty or Stephenson at right tackle.)

Last year, the Broncos threw about 25 passes over 20 yards or so. I am not as sold on TS being that great against the blitz because one of the ways to beat the blitz is to attack with short passing. I'm not saying he didn't do well there. I just don't think it's as good as it looks first glance.

Originally Posted by Tned

LOL, if you are going to base it on what MO posted, then yes. Statistically, he was in par or better than those QBs in their first year starting.

A lot of those guys were pure rookies, though. Palmer sat for a year, and that comparison is a fair one. They both had bad lines, nice WR's, although Palmer had a better running game.

They both played in strong defensive divisions. Palmer had the Ravens and the Steelers, and the Raiders and the Chiefs are tough on D. Neither Palmer or TS had the best offensive coaching, either.

Originally Posted by Tned

LOL, if you are going to base it on what MO posted, then yes. Statistically, he was in par or better than those QBs in their first year starting.

I'm not basing anything off of what MO posted.

I have seen all of those QBs play and TS is not in their class.

He is Brian Hoyer. That's who he is.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Last year, the Broncos threw about 25 passes over 20 yards or so. I am not as sold on TS being that great against the blitz because one of the ways to beat the blitz is to attack with short passing. I'm not saying he didn't do well there. I just don't think it's as good as it looks first glance.

Well, if TS threw 25% of his passes over 20 yards and he was sacked only four times, wouldn't that speak well of him?

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

A lot of those guys were pure rookies, though. Palmer sat for a year, and that comparison is a fair one. They both had bad lines, nice WR's, although Palmer had a better running game.

They both played in strong defensive divisions. Palmer had the Ravens and the Steelers, and the Raiders and the Chiefs are tough on D. Neither Palmer or TS had the best offensive coaching, either.

Don't kid yourself, my friend. TS was a pure rookie, despite his lingering on the bench all the previous year and its preseason. My daddy used to say that you don't learn bartending by sitting on the other side of the bar. TS had absolutely no experience on the field.

Originally Posted by Canmore

I think this is the epitome of the meaning of insanity.

I don't agree - this has been a really good thread. Some strong information is out there and has been presented. Tned's idea to start this thread was a solid one.