Thread: Sell me on a Bronco QB.

Originally Posted by Tned

Agreed. I think many of us underestimate the anchor that was Kubiak that was dragging Siemian and the whole offense down. It gives me no pleasure in saying that, because I loved Kubiak as a player, loved him as the OC, and was excited, but also concerned, when he was hired as OC. My concern was that he was a one trick pony that couldn't or wouldn't adjust if he didn't have a running game, and that's what we saw.

Oh, most of us knew how horrid Kubiak was. I think you were gone at the time, but there were multiple conversations where people who weren't high on TS did give him that acknowledgment - GK was the enemy of the offense last year...just not the main villain.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Oh, most of us knew how horrid Kubiak was. I think you were gone at the time, but there were multiple conversations where people who weren't high on TS did give him that acknowledgment - GK was the enemy of the offense last year...just not the main villain.

Who was the main villain?

Originally Posted by Tned

Here's an interesting one.

How do you account for the huge discrepancy? One way to look at it is that when blitzed, there is a mismatch/open man and Siemian's high football IQ and quick release made teams pay. However, when there wasn't a blitz there would be tighter coverage and the Broncos line wasn't capable of providing pockets long enough for routes to develop and receivers to come open.

PFF, BF people. That's your favorite.

Btw, what this does address is that teams didn't need to blitz.

Originally Posted by Tned

Who was the main villain?

Don't feed the troll.

Because I was told earlier this week that it was unfair to compare Siemian to anything but quarterbacks in their first full year of starting, I did that with the Football Outsiders numbers for all of the quarterbacks on the +200 attempts chart from 2016.

The first chart is ranked by DYAR, which is essentially FO's WAR:

Code:

Player    	Team	DYAR	Rk	YAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk	VOA	QBR	Rk	Pass	Yards	EYds	TD	FK	FL	INT	C%
D.Prescott	DAL	1,302	4	1,220	5	31.6%	3	28.9%	81.5	3	483	3,527	4,229	23	2	4	4	68.1%
K.Cousins	WAS	1,023	7	1,125	5	16.9%	6	19.7%	70.1	6	570	3,979	4,329	29	2	3	11	69.8%
M.Ryan       	ATL	1,012	7	875	7	25.3%	4	20.3%	74.1	3	451	3,330	3,609	16	3	1	11	61.3%
B.Rothlsbrgr	PIT	908	11	843	10	31.7%	3	28.7%	0.0	0	326	2,393	2,942	17	0	2	10	67.2%
P.Rivers	SD	891	6	931	6	17.4%	9	18.7%	0.0	0	490	3,203	3,724	22	4	2	9	62.4%
R.Wilson	SEA	872	8	741	12	19.7%	6	15.0%	69.6	8	432	2,935	3,467	26	3	3	9	64.6%
C.Kaepernick	SF	791	8	650	13	16.6%	7	11.7%	68.6	7	456	2,969	3,358	21	1	3	7	58.4%
A.Rodgers	GB	708	12	746	10	8.5%	14	9.6%	66.9	8*	569	3,775	3,859	28	6	3	13	64.5%
E.Manning	NYG	632	9	610	11	6.0%	17	5.4%	0.0	0	585	3,573	3,840	24	6	2	17	52.9%
A.Dalton	CIN	575	12	485	12	5.6%	13	3.0%	45.6	26	540	3,224	3,550	20	1	2	13	58.3%
T.Taylor	BUF	536	14	486	16	9.8%	8	7.9%	67.8	7	417	2,810	2,790	20	5	1	6	63.7%
T.Brady       	NE	491	13	494	12	5.4%	12	5.5%	0.0	0	456	2,625	3,059	18	9	3	11	64.1%
J.Winston	TB	467	16	495	15	2.1%	16	2.9%	58.6	21	560	3,828	3,480	22	2	1	15	58.9%
C.Newton	CAR	404	15	428	13	0.8%	16	1.5%	55.0	18	551	3,810	3,287	21	3	2	17	60.3%
C.Palmer     	CIN	393	17	206	18	2.6%	16	-4.0%	0.0	0	453	2,682	2,845	18	0	2	18	62.5%
D.Brees      	SD	344	21	430	18	-1.3%	25	1.2%	0.0	0	548	3,104	3,279	17	2	0	15	61.1%
A.Luck        	IND	257	19	366	17	-5.1%	19	-2.6%	65.0	11	662	4,089	3,793	23	5	5	17	55.0%
J.Flacco	BAL	232	19	133	25	-3.0%	22	-6.5%	43.2	29	461	2,729	2,606	14	5	2	11	60.4%
B.Hoyer      	CLE	166	25	255	21	-5.3%	26	-2.2%	43.1	31	465	3,170	2,513	12	2	1	12	55.7%
T.Siemian	DEN	137	22	214	21	-7.1%	21	-4.8%	55.8	21	516	3,182	2,891	18	1	2	9	59.6%
C.Kessler	CLE	50	24	80	25	-7.6%	22	-5.4%	49.6	28	218	1,225	1,196	6	3	1	2	66.0%
R.Tannehill	MIA	39	25	86	24	-9.9%	25	-8.5%	52.3	19	517	3,069	2,694	12	2	3	13	58.5%
M.Barkley	CHI	4	26	127	23	-10.9%	26	-2.2%	39.2	33	222	1,568	1,150	8	0	2	13	59.7%
C.Wentz     	PHI	-36	27	12	26	-12.0%	27	-10.8%	52.8	26	641	3,580	3,254	16	5	2	14	62.7%
M.Mariota	TEN	-53	30	123	23	-13.2%	28	-6.4%	61.0	16	407	2,551	2,017	19	3	6	10	62.5%
A.Smith      	SF	-147	38	-140	38	-16.0%	35	-15.8%	0.0	0	477	2,694	2,233	16	5	2	16	59.0%
D.Carr        	OAK	-150	37	-355	41	-14.9%	34	-20.1%	38.4	34	622	3,071	2,969	21	5	4	12	58.9%
S.Bradford	STL	-178	39	-5	34	-15.6%	34	-11.3%	41.5	30	622	3,262	3,006	18	5	2	13	60.4%
C.Keenum	LARM	-183	31	-174	31	-19.5%	31	-19.1%	43.4	32	345	2,054	1,507	9	2	1	11	60.9%
R.Fitzpatrick	CIN	-315	37	-457	41	-22.9%	35	-28.1%	38.1	33	408	1,707	1,736	8	4	4	8	59.7%
B.Osweiler	HOU	-558	33	-502	33	-26.8%	33	-25.3%	55.3	22	535	2,739	2,105	15	3	1	15	59.5%
M.Stafford	DET	-653	45	-497	43	-36.6%	41	-30.6%	30.0	37	394	2,091	1,178	13	3	1	20	54.5%
J.Goff         	LARM	-881	34	-819	34	-74.8%	34	-70.3%	22.2	34	230	876	-85	5	3	2	7	54.9%
B.Bortles	JAC	-955	44	-935	44	-40.7%	43	-40.0%	21.9	43	530	2,554	1,310	11	5	0	16	59.1%

Second is DVOA, which is essentially effectiveness of each play adjusted for down, distance, opponent and a whole lot of other variables.

Code:

Player    	Team	DYAR	Rk	YAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk	VOA	QBR	Rk	Pass	Yards	EYds	TD	FK	FL	INT	C%
B.Rothlsbrgr	PIT	908	11	843	10	31.7%	3	28.7%	0.0	0	326	2,393	2,942	17	0	2	10	67.2%
D.Prescott	DAL	1,302	4	1,220	5	31.6%	3	28.9%	81.5	3	483	3,527	4,229	23	2	4	4	68.1%
M.Ryan       	ATL	1,012	7	875	7	25.3%	4	20.3%	74.1	3	451	3,330	3,609	16	3	1	11	61.3%
R.Wilson	SEA	872	8	741	12	19.7%	6	15.0%	69.6	8	432	2,935	3,467	26	3	3	9	64.6%
P.Rivers	SD	891	6	931	6	17.4%	9	18.7%	0.0	0	490	3,203	3,724	22	4	2	9	62.4%
K.Cousins	WAS	1,023	7	1,125	5	16.9%	6	19.7%	70.1	6	570	3,979	4,329	29	2	3	11	69.8%
C.Kaepernick	SF	791	8	650	13	16.6%	7	11.7%	68.6	7	456	2,969	3,358	21	1	3	7	58.4%
T.Taylor	BUF	536	14	486	16	9.8%	8	7.9%	67.8	7	417	2,810	2,790	20	5	1	6	63.7%
A.Rodgers	GB	708	12	746	10	8.5%	14	9.6%	66.9	8*	569	3,775	3,859	28	6	3	13	64.5%
E.Manning	NYG	632	9	610	11	6.0%	17	5.4%	0.0	0	585	3,573	3,840	24	6	2	17	52.9%
A.Dalton	CIN	575	12	485	12	5.6%	13	3.0%	45.6	26	540	3,224	3,550	20	1	2	13	58.3%
T.Brady       	NE	491	13	494	12	5.4%	12	5.5%	0.0	0	456	2,625	3,059	18	9	3	11	64.1%
C.Palmer	CIN	393	17	206	18	2.6%	16	-4.0%	0.0	0	453	2,682	2,845	18	0	2	18	62.5%
J.Winston	TB	467	16	495	15	2.1%	16	2.9%	58.6	21	560	3,828	3,480	22	2	1	15	58.9%
C.Newton	CAR	404	15	428	13	0.8%	16	1.5%	55.0	18	551	3,810	3,287	21	3	2	17	60.3%
D.Brees      	SD	344	21	430	18	-1.3%	25	1.2%	0.0	0	548	3,104	3,279	17	2	0	15	61.1%
J.Flacco	BAL	232	19	133	25	-3.0%	22	-6.5%	43.2	29	461	2,729	2,606	14	5	2	11	60.4%
A.Luck        	IND	257	19	366	17	-5.1%	19	-2.6%	65.0	11	662	4,089	3,793	23	5	5	17	55.0%
B.Hoyer      	CLE	166	25	255	21	-5.3%	26	-2.2%	43.1	31	465	3,170	2,513	12	2	1	12	55.7%
T.Siemian	DEN	137	22	214	21	-7.1%	21	-4.8%	55.8	21	516	3,182	2,891	18	1	2	9	59.6%
C.Kessler	CLE	50	24	80	25	-7.6%	22	-5.4%	49.6	28	218	1,225	1,196	6	3	1	2	66.0%
R.Tannehill	MIA	39	25	86	24	-9.9%	25	-8.5%	52.3	19	517	3,069	2,694	12	2	3	13	58.5%
M.Barkley	CHI	4	26	127	23	-10.9%	26	-2.2%	39.2	33	222	1,568	1,150	8	0	2	13	59.7%
C.Wentz     	PHI	-36	27	12	26	-12.0%	27	-10.8%	52.8	26	641	3,580	3,254	16	5	2	14	62.7%
M.Mariota	TEN	-53	30	123	23	-13.2%	28	-6.4%	61.0	16	407	2,551	2,017	19	3	6	10	62.5%
D.Carr        	OAK	-150	37	-355	41	-14.9%	34	-20.1%	38.4	34	622	3,071	2,969	21	5	4	12	58.9%
S.Bradford	STL	-178	39	-5	34	-15.6%	34	-11.3%	41.5	30	622	3,262	3,006	18	5	2	13	60.4%
A.Smith      	SF	-147	38	-140	38	-16.0%	35	-15.8%	0.0	0	477	2,694	2,233	16	5	2	16	59.0%
C.Keenum	LARM	-183	31	-174	31	-19.5%	31	-19.1%	43.4	32	345	2,054	1,507	9	2	1	11	60.9%
R.Fitzpatrick	CIN	-315	37	-457	41	-22.9%	35	-28.1%	38.1	33	408	1,707	1,736	8	4	4	8	59.7%
B.Osweiler	HOU	-558	33	-502	33	-26.8%	33	-25.3%	55.3	22	535	2,739	2,105	15	3	1	15	59.5%
M.Stafford	DET	-653	45	-497	43	-36.6%	41	-30.6%	30.0	37	394	2,091	1,178	13	3	1	20	54.5%
B.Bortles	JAC	-955	44	-935	44	-40.7%	43	-40.0%	21.9	43	530	2,554	1,310	11	5	0	16	59.1%
J.Goff         	LARM	-881	34	-819	34	-74.8%	34	-70.3%	22.2	34	230	876	-85	5	3	2	7	54.9%

Third is VOA, DVOA without some variables, most notably, the strength of the opponent.

Code:

Player    	Team	DYAR	Rk	YAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk	VOA	QBR	Rk	Pass	Yards	EYds	TD	FK	FL	INT	C%
D.Prescott	DAL	1,302	4	1,220	5	31.6%	3	28.9%	81.5	3	483	3,527	4,229	23	2	4	4	68.1%
B.Rothlsbrgr	PIT	908	11	843	10	31.7%	3	28.7%	0.0	0	326	2,393	2,942	17	0	2	10	67.2%
M.Ryan       	ATL	1,012	7	875	7	25.3%	4	20.3%	74.1	3	451	3,330	3,609	16	3	1	11	61.3%
K.Cousins	WAS	1,023	7	1,125	5	16.9%	6	19.7%	70.1	6	570	3,979	4,329	29	2	3	11	69.8%
P.Rivers	SD	891	6	931	6	17.4%	9	18.7%	0.0	0	490	3,203	3,724	22	4	2	9	62.4%
R.Wilson	SEA	872	8	741	12	19.7%	6	15.0%	69.6	8	432	2,935	3,467	26	3	3	9	64.6%
C.Kaepernick	SF	791	8	650	13	16.6%	7	11.7%	68.6	7	456	2,969	3,358	21	1	3	7	58.4%
A.Rodgers	GB	708	12	746	10	8.5%	14	9.6%	66.9	8*	569	3,775	3,859	28	6	3	13	64.5%
T.Taylor	BUF	536	14	486	16	9.8%	8	7.9%	67.8	7	417	2,810	2,790	20	5	1	6	63.7%
T.Brady       	NE	491	13	494	12	5.4%	12	5.5%	0.0	0	456	2,625	3,059	18	9	3	11	64.1%
E.Manning	NYG	632	9	610	11	6.0%	17	5.4%	0.0	0	585	3,573	3,840	24	6	2	17	52.9%
A.Dalton	CIN	575	12	485	12	5.6%	13	3.0%	45.6	26	540	3,224	3,550	20	1	2	13	58.3%
J.Winston	TB	467	16	495	15	2.1%	16	2.9%	58.6	21	560	3,828	3,480	22	2	1	15	58.9%
C.Newton	CAR	404	15	428	13	0.8%	16	1.5%	55.0	18	551	3,810	3,287	21	3	2	17	60.3%
D.Brees      	SD	344	21	430	18	-1.3%	25	1.2%	0.0	0	548	3,104	3,279	17	2	0	15	61.1%
B.Hoyer      	CLE	166	25	255	21	-5.3%	26	-2.2%	43.1	31	465	3,170	2,513	12	2	1	12	55.7%
M.Barkley	CHI	4	26	127	23	-10.9%	26	-2.2%	39.2	33	222	1,568	1,150	8	0	2	13	59.7%
A.Luck        	IND	257	19	366	17	-5.1%	19	-2.6%	65.0	11	662	4,089	3,793	23	5	5	17	55.0%
C.Palmer	CIN	393	17	206	18	2.6%	16	-4.0%	0.0	0	453	2,682	2,845	18	0	2	18	62.5%
T.Siemian	DEN	137	22	214	21	-7.1%	21	-4.8%	55.8	21	516	3,182	2,891	18	1	2	9	59.6%
C.Kessler	CLE	50	24	80	25	-7.6%	22	-5.4%	49.6	28	218	1,225	1,196	6	3	1	2	66.0%
M.Mariota	TEN	-53	30	123	23	-13.2%	28	-6.4%	61.0	16	407	2,551	2,017	19	3	6	10	62.5%
J.Flacco      	BAL	232	19	133	25	-3.0%	22	-6.5%	43.2	29	461	2,729	2,606	14	5	2	11	60.4%
R.Tannehill	MIA	39	25	86	24	-9.9%	25	-8.5%	52.3	19	517	3,069	2,694	12	2	3	13	58.5%
C.Wentz     	PHI	-36	27	12	26	-12.0%	27	-10.8%	52.8	26	641	3,580	3,254	16	5	2	14	62.7%
S.Bradford	STL	-178	39	-5	34	-15.6%	34	-11.3%	41.5	30	622	3,262	3,006	18	5	2	13	60.4%
A.Smith      	SF	-147	38	-140	38	-16.0%	35	-15.8%	0.0	0	477	2,694	2,233	16	5	2	16	59.0%
C.Keenum	LARM	-183	31	-174	31	-19.5%	31	-19.1%	43.4	32	345	2,054	1,507	9	2	1	11	60.9%
D.Carr        	OAK	-150	37	-355	41	-14.9%	34	-20.1%	38.4	34	622	3,071	2,969	21	5	4	12	58.9%
B.Osweiler	HOU	-558	33	-502	33	-26.8%	33	-25.3%	55.3	22	535	2,739	2,105	15	3	1	15	59.5%
R.Fitzpatrick	CIN	-315	37	-457	41	-22.9%	35	-28.1%	38.1	33	408	1,707	1,736	8	4	4	8	59.7%
M.Stafford	DET	-653	45	-497	43	-36.6%	41	-30.6%	30.0	37	394	2,091	1,178	13	3	1	20	54.5%
B.Bortles	JAC	-955	44	-935	44	-40.7%	43	-40.0%	21.9	43	530	2,554	1,310	11	5	0	16	59.1%
J.Goff         	LARM	-881	34	-819	34	-74.8%	34	-70.3%	22.2	34	230	876	-85	5	3	2	7	54.9%

EYDS, which is DVOA melded into a yard per play stat.

Code:

Player    	Team	DYAR	Rk	YAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk	VOA	QBR	Rk	Pass	Yards	EYds	TD	FK	FL	INT	C%
K.Cousins	WAS	1,023	7	1,125	5	16.9%	6	19.7%	70.1	6	570	3,979	4,329	29	2	3	11	69.8%
D.Prescott	DAL	1,302	4	1,220	5	31.6%	3	28.9%	81.5	3	483	3,527	4,229	23	2	4	4	68.1%
A.Rodgers	GB	708	12	746	10	8.5%	14	9.6%	66.9	8*	569	3,775	3,859	28	6	3	13	64.5%
E.Manning	NYG	632	9	610	11	6.0%	17	5.4%	0.0	0	585	3,573	3,840	24	6	2	17	52.9%
A.Luck        	IND	257	19	366	17	-5.1%	19	-2.6%	65.0	11	662	4,089	3,793	23	5	5	17	55.0%
P.Rivers	SD	891	6	931	6	17.4%	9	18.7%	0.0	0	490	3,203	3,724	22	4	2	9	62.4%
M.Ryan       	ATL	1,012	7	875	7	25.3%	4	20.3%	74.1	3	451	3,330	3,609	16	3	1	11	61.3%
A.Dalton	CIN	575	12	485	12	5.6%	13	3.0%	45.6	26	540	3,224	3,550	20	1	2	13	58.3%
J.Winston	TB	467	16	495	15	2.1%	16	2.9%	58.6	21	560	3,828	3,480	22	2	1	15	58.9%
R.Wilson	SEA	872	8	741	12	19.7%	6	15.0%	69.6	8	432	2,935	3,467	26	3	3	9	64.6%
C.Kaepernick	SF	791	8	650	13	16.6%	7	11.7%	68.6	7	456	2,969	3,358	21	1	3	7	58.4%
C.Newton	CAR	404	15	428	13	0.8%	16	1.5%	55.0	18	551	3,810	3,287	21	3	2	17	60.3%
D.Brees      	SD	344	21	430	18	-1.3%	25	1.2%	0.0	0	548	3,104	3,279	17	2	0	15	61.1%
C.Wentz	PHI	-36	27	12	26	-12.0%	27	-10.8%	52.8	26	641	3,580	3,254	16	5	2	14	62.7%
T.Brady       	NE	491	13	494	12	5.4%	12	5.5%	0.0	0	456	2,625	3,059	18	9	3	11	64.1%
S.Bradford	STL	-178	39	-5	34	-15.6%	34	-11.3%	41.5	30	622	3,262	3,006	18	5	2	13	60.4%
D.Carr        	OAK	-150	37	-355	41	-14.9%	34	-20.1%	38.4	34	622	3,071	2,969	21	5	4	12	58.9%
B.Rothlsbrgr	PIT	908	11	843	10	31.7%	3	28.7%	0.0	0	326	2,393	2,942	17	0	2	10	67.2%
T.Siemian	DEN	137	22	214	21	-7.1%	21	-4.8%	55.8	21	516	3,182	2,891	18	1	2	9	59.6%
C.Palmer	CIN	393	17	206	18	2.6%	16	-4.0%	0.0	0	453	2,682	2,845	18	0	2	18	62.5%
T.Taylor	BUF	536	14	486	16	9.8%	8	7.9%	67.8	7	417	2,810	2,790	20	5	1	6	63.7%
R.Tannehill	MIA	39	25	86	24	-9.9%	25	-8.5%	52.3	19	517	3,069	2,694	12	2	3	13	58.5%
J.Flacco      	BAL	232	19	133	25	-3.0%	22	-6.5%	43.2	29	461	2,729	2,606	14	5	2	11	60.4%
B.Hoyer      	CLE	166	25	255	21	-5.3%	26	-2.2%	43.1	31	465	3,170	2,513	12	2	1	12	55.7%
A.Smith      	SF	-147	38	-140	38	-16.0%	35	-15.8%	0.0	0	477	2,694	2,233	16	5	2	16	59.0%
B.Osweiler	HOU	-558	33	-502	33	-26.8%	33	-25.3%	55.3	22	535	2,739	2,105	15	3	1	15	59.5%
M.Mariota	TEN	-53	30	123	23	-13.2%	28	-6.4%	61.0	16	407	2,551	2,017	19	3	6	10	62.5%
R.Fitzpatrick	CIN	-315	37	-457	41	-22.9%	35	-28.1%	38.1	33	408	1,707	1,736	8	4	4	8	59.7%
C.Keenum	LARM	-183	31	-174	31	-19.5%	31	-19.1%	43.4	32	345	2,054	1,507	9	2	1	11	60.9%
B.Bortles	JAC	-955	44	-935	44	-40.7%	43	-40.0%	21.9	43	530	2,554	1,310	11	5	0	16	59.1%
C.Kessler	CLE	50	24	80	25	-7.6%	22	-5.4%	49.6	28	218	1,225	1,196	6	3	1	2	66.0%
M.Stafford	DET	-653	45	-497	43	-36.6%	41	-30.6%	30.0	37	394	2,091	1,178	13	3	1	20	54.5%
M.Barkley	CHI	4	26	127	23	-10.9%	26	-2.2%	39.2	33	222	1,568	1,150	8	0	2	13	59.7%
J.Goff         	LARM	-881	34	-819	34	-74.8%	34	-70.3%	22.2	34	230	876	-85	5	3	2	7	54.9%

I don't think this is condemnation of Siemian. I don't think it's a crowning of Siemian, either. It is what it is. There is potential for him to be a decent quarterback, but I don't think he played well last year. He's not trash, he's not Tebow or Akili Smith. He's certainly a pleasant surprise as a seventh round pick, and I certainly hope he will be good as he is the person that I believe will be announced out of the tunnel on opening night and, as long as he's healthy, all 16 games this season. I don't think Lynch is ready (just a gut feeling, I haven't watched any of training camp), Sloter is training camp fodder and Kelly is going to be on IR, or the third quarterback.

Originally Posted by Jaded

PFF, BF people. That's your favorite.

Btw, what this does address is that teams didn't need to blitz.

Siemian was the 12th most blitzed QB last year. They might not have "needed to blitz" but clearly they did a lot.

Geek fight!

Originally Posted by Tned

Siemian was the 12th most blitzed QB last year. They might not have "needed to blitz" but clearly they did a lot.

Meh, I get blitzed more.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Meh, I get blitzed more.

Translation: you discounted a stat with an assumption, when another stat provec your assumption wrong, you deflected with a quip.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Because I was told earlier this week that it was unfair to compare Siemian to anything but quarterbacks in their first full year of starting, I did that with the Football Outsiders numbers for all of the quarterbacks on the +200 attempts chart from 2016.

The first chart is ranked by DYAR, which is essentially FO's WAR:

Code:

Player        Team    DYAR    Rk    YAR    Rk    DVOA    Rk    VOA    QBR    Rk    Pass    Yards    EYds    TD    FK    FL    INT    C%
D.Prescott    DAL    1,302    4    1,220    5    31.6%    3    28.9%    81.5    3    483    3,527    4,229    23    2    4    4    68.1%
K.Cousins    WAS    1,023    7    1,125    5    16.9%    6    19.7%    70.1    6    570    3,979    4,329    29    2    3    11    69.8%
M.Ryan           ATL    1,012    7    875    7    25.3%    4    20.3%    74.1    3    451    3,330    3,609    16    3    1    11    61.3%
B.Rothlsbrgr    PIT    908    11    843    10    31.7%    3    28.7%    0.0    0    326    2,393    2,942    17    0    2    10    67.2%
P.Rivers    SD    891    6    931    6    17.4%    9    18.7%    0.0    0    490    3,203    3,724    22    4    2    9    62.4%
R.Wilson    SEA    872    8    741    12    19.7%    6    15.0%    69.6    8    432    2,935    3,467    26    3    3    9    64.6%
C.Kaepernick    SF    791    8    650    13    16.6%    7    11.7%    68.6    7    456    2,969    3,358    21    1    3    7    58.4%
A.Rodgers    GB    708    12    746    10    8.5%    14    9.6%    66.9    8*    569    3,775    3,859    28    6    3    13    64.5%
E.Manning    NYG    632    9    610    11    6.0%    17    5.4%    0.0    0    585    3,573    3,840    24    6    2    17    52.9%
A.Dalton    CIN    575    12    485    12    5.6%    13    3.0%    45.6    26    540    3,224    3,550    20    1    2    13    58.3%
T.Taylor    BUF    536    14    486    16    9.8%    8    7.9%    67.8    7    417    2,810    2,790    20    5    1    6    63.7%
T.Brady           NE    491    13    494    12    5.4%    12    5.5%    0.0    0    456    2,625    3,059    18    9    3    11    64.1%
J.Winston    TB    467    16    495    15    2.1%    16    2.9%    58.6    21    560    3,828    3,480    22    2    1    15    58.9%
C.Newton    CAR    404    15    428    13    0.8%    16    1.5%    55.0    18    551    3,810    3,287    21    3    2    17    60.3%
C.Palmer         CIN    393    17    206    18    2.6%    16    -4.0%    0.0    0    453    2,682    2,845    18    0    2    18    62.5%
D.Brees          SD    344    21    430    18    -1.3%    25    1.2%    0.0    0    548    3,104    3,279    17    2    0    15    61.1%
A.Luck            IND    257    19    366    17    -5.1%    19    -2.6%    65.0    11    662    4,089    3,793    23    5    5    17    55.0%
J.Flacco    BAL    232    19    133    25    -3.0%    22    -6.5%    43.2    29    461    2,729    2,606    14    5    2    11    60.4%
B.Hoyer          CLE    166    25    255    21    -5.3%    26    -2.2%    43.1    31    465    3,170    2,513    12    2    1    12    55.7%
T.Siemian    DEN    137    22    214    21    -7.1%    21    -4.8%    55.8    21    516    3,182    2,891    18    1    2    9    59.6%
C.Kessler    CLE    50    24    80    25    -7.6%    22    -5.4%    49.6    28    218    1,225    1,196    6    3    1    2    66.0%
R.Tannehill    MIA    39    25    86    24    -9.9%    25    -8.5%    52.3    19    517    3,069    2,694    12    2    3    13    58.5%
M.Barkley    CHI    4    26    127    23    -10.9%    26    -2.2%    39.2    33    222    1,568    1,150    8    0    2    13    59.7%
C.Wentz         PHI    -36    27    12    26    -12.0%    27    -10.8%    52.8    26    641    3,580    3,254    16    5    2    14    62.7%
M.Mariota    TEN    -53    30    123    23    -13.2%    28    -6.4%    61.0    16    407    2,551    2,017    19    3    6    10    62.5%
A.Smith          SF    -147    38    -140    38    -16.0%    35    -15.8%    0.0    0    477    2,694    2,233    16    5    2    16    59.0%
D.Carr            OAK    -150    37    -355    41    -14.9%    34    -20.1%    38.4    34    622    3,071    2,969    21    5    4    12    58.9%
S.Bradford    STL    -178    39    -5    34    -15.6%    34    -11.3%    41.5    30    622    3,262    3,006    18    5    2    13    60.4%
C.Keenum    LARM    -183    31    -174    31    -19.5%    31    -19.1%    43.4    32    345    2,054    1,507    9    2    1    11    60.9%
R.Fitzpatrick    CIN    -315    37    -457    41    -22.9%    35    -28.1%    38.1    33    408    1,707    1,736    8    4    4    8    59.7%
B.Osweiler    HOU    -558    33    -502    33    -26.8%    33    -25.3%    55.3    22    535    2,739    2,105    15    3    1    15    59.5%
M.Stafford    DET    -653    45    -497    43    -36.6%    41    -30.6%    30.0    37    394    2,091    1,178    13    3    1    20    54.5%
J.Goff             LARM    -881    34    -819    34    -74.8%    34    -70.3%    22.2    34    230    876    -85    5    3    2    7    54.9%
B.Bortles    JAC    -955    44    -935    44    -40.7%    43    -40.0%    21.9    43    530    2,554    1,310    11    5    0    16    59.1%

Second is DVOA, which is essentially effectiveness of each play adjusted for down, distance, opponent and a whole lot of other variables.

Code:

Player        Team    DYAR    Rk    YAR    Rk    DVOA    Rk    VOA    QBR    Rk    Pass    Yards    EYds    TD    FK    FL    INT    C%
B.Rothlsbrgr    PIT    908    11    843    10    31.7%    3    28.7%    0.0    0    326    2,393    2,942    17    0    2    10    67.2%
D.Prescott    DAL    1,302    4    1,220    5    31.6%    3    28.9%    81.5    3    483    3,527    4,229    23    2    4    4    68.1%
M.Ryan           ATL    1,012    7    875    7    25.3%    4    20.3%    74.1    3    451    3,330    3,609    16    3    1    11    61.3%
R.Wilson    SEA    872    8    741    12    19.7%    6    15.0%    69.6    8    432    2,935    3,467    26    3    3    9    64.6%
P.Rivers    SD    891    6    931    6    17.4%    9    18.7%    0.0    0    490    3,203    3,724    22    4    2    9    62.4%
K.Cousins    WAS    1,023    7    1,125    5    16.9%    6    19.7%    70.1    6    570    3,979    4,329    29    2    3    11    69.8%
C.Kaepernick    SF    791    8    650    13    16.6%    7    11.7%    68.6    7    456    2,969    3,358    21    1    3    7    58.4%
T.Taylor    BUF    536    14    486    16    9.8%    8    7.9%    67.8    7    417    2,810    2,790    20    5    1    6    63.7%
A.Rodgers    GB    708    12    746    10    8.5%    14    9.6%    66.9    8*    569    3,775    3,859    28    6    3    13    64.5%
E.Manning    NYG    632    9    610    11    6.0%    17    5.4%    0.0    0    585    3,573    3,840    24    6    2    17    52.9%
A.Dalton    CIN    575    12    485    12    5.6%    13    3.0%    45.6    26    540    3,224    3,550    20    1    2    13    58.3%
T.Brady           NE    491    13    494    12    5.4%    12    5.5%    0.0    0    456    2,625    3,059    18    9    3    11    64.1%
C.Palmer    CIN    393    17    206    18    2.6%    16    -4.0%    0.0    0    453    2,682    2,845    18    0    2    18    62.5%
J.Winston    TB    467    16    495    15    2.1%    16    2.9%    58.6    21    560    3,828    3,480    22    2    1    15    58.9%
C.Newton    CAR    404    15    428    13    0.8%    16    1.5%    55.0    18    551    3,810    3,287    21    3    2    17    60.3%
D.Brees          SD    344    21    430    18    -1.3%    25    1.2%    0.0    0    548    3,104    3,279    17    2    0    15    61.1%
J.Flacco    BAL    232    19    133    25    -3.0%    22    -6.5%    43.2    29    461    2,729    2,606    14    5    2    11    60.4%
A.Luck            IND    257    19    366    17    -5.1%    19    -2.6%    65.0    11    662    4,089    3,793    23    5    5    17    55.0%
B.Hoyer          CLE    166    25    255    21    -5.3%    26    -2.2%    43.1    31    465    3,170    2,513    12    2    1    12    55.7%
T.Siemian    DEN    137    22    214    21    -7.1%    21    -4.8%    55.8    21    516    3,182    2,891    18    1    2    9    59.6%
C.Kessler    CLE    50    24    80    25    -7.6%    22    -5.4%    49.6    28    218    1,225    1,196    6    3    1    2    66.0%
R.Tannehill    MIA    39    25    86    24    -9.9%    25    -8.5%    52.3    19    517    3,069    2,694    12    2    3    13    58.5%
M.Barkley    CHI    4    26    127    23    -10.9%    26    -2.2%    39.2    33    222    1,568    1,150    8    0    2    13    59.7%
C.Wentz         PHI    -36    27    12    26    -12.0%    27    -10.8%    52.8    26    641    3,580    3,254    16    5    2    14    62.7%
M.Mariota    TEN    -53    30    123    23    -13.2%    28    -6.4%    61.0    16    407    2,551    2,017    19    3    6    10    62.5%
D.Carr            OAK    -150    37    -355    41    -14.9%    34    -20.1%    38.4    34    622    3,071    2,969    21    5    4    12    58.9%
S.Bradford    STL    -178    39    -5    34    -15.6%    34    -11.3%    41.5    30    622    3,262    3,006    18    5    2    13    60.4%
A.Smith          SF    -147    38    -140    38    -16.0%    35    -15.8%    0.0    0    477    2,694    2,233    16    5    2    16    59.0%
C.Keenum    LARM    -183    31    -174    31    -19.5%    31    -19.1%    43.4    32    345    2,054    1,507    9    2    1    11    60.9%
R.Fitzpatrick    CIN    -315    37    -457    41    -22.9%    35    -28.1%    38.1    33    408    1,707    1,736    8    4    4    8    59.7%
B.Osweiler    HOU    -558    33    -502    33    -26.8%    33    -25.3%    55.3    22    535    2,739    2,105    15    3    1    15    59.5%
M.Stafford    DET    -653    45    -497    43    -36.6%    41    -30.6%    30.0    37    394    2,091    1,178    13    3    1    20    54.5%
B.Bortles    JAC    -955    44    -935    44    -40.7%    43    -40.0%    21.9    43    530    2,554    1,310    11    5    0    16    59.1%
J.Goff             LARM    -881    34    -819    34    -74.8%    34    -70.3%    22.2    34    230    876    -85    5    3    2    7    54.9%

Third is VOA, DVOA without some variables, most notably, the strength of the opponent.

Code:

Player        Team    DYAR    Rk    YAR    Rk    DVOA    Rk    VOA    QBR    Rk    Pass    Yards    EYds    TD    FK    FL    INT    C%
D.Prescott    DAL    1,302    4    1,220    5    31.6%    3    28.9%    81.5    3    483    3,527    4,229    23    2    4    4    68.1%
B.Rothlsbrgr    PIT    908    11    843    10    31.7%    3    28.7%    0.0    0    326    2,393    2,942    17    0    2    10    67.2%
M.Ryan           ATL    1,012    7    875    7    25.3%    4    20.3%    74.1    3    451    3,330    3,609    16    3    1    11    61.3%
K.Cousins    WAS    1,023    7    1,125    5    16.9%    6    19.7%    70.1    6    570    3,979    4,329    29    2    3    11    69.8%
P.Rivers    SD    891    6    931    6    17.4%    9    18.7%    0.0    0    490    3,203    3,724    22    4    2    9    62.4%
R.Wilson    SEA    872    8    741    12    19.7%    6    15.0%    69.6    8    432    2,935    3,467    26    3    3    9    64.6%
C.Kaepernick    SF    791    8    650    13    16.6%    7    11.7%    68.6    7    456    2,969    3,358    21    1    3    7    58.4%
A.Rodgers    GB    708    12    746    10    8.5%    14    9.6%    66.9    8*    569    3,775    3,859    28    6    3    13    64.5%
T.Taylor    BUF    536    14    486    16    9.8%    8    7.9%    67.8    7    417    2,810    2,790    20    5    1    6    63.7%
T.Brady           NE    491    13    494    12    5.4%    12    5.5%    0.0    0    456    2,625    3,059    18    9    3    11    64.1%
E.Manning    NYG    632    9    610    11    6.0%    17    5.4%    0.0    0    585    3,573    3,840    24    6    2    17    52.9%
A.Dalton    CIN    575    12    485    12    5.6%    13    3.0%    45.6    26    540    3,224    3,550    20    1    2    13    58.3%
J.Winston    TB    467    16    495    15    2.1%    16    2.9%    58.6    21    560    3,828    3,480    22    2    1    15    58.9%
C.Newton    CAR    404    15    428    13    0.8%    16    1.5%    55.0    18    551    3,810    3,287    21    3    2    17    60.3%
D.Brees          SD    344    21    430    18    -1.3%    25    1.2%    0.0    0    548    3,104    3,279    17    2    0    15    61.1%
B.Hoyer          CLE    166    25    255    21    -5.3%    26    -2.2%    43.1    31    465    3,170    2,513    12    2    1    12    55.7%
M.Barkley    CHI    4    26    127    23    -10.9%    26    -2.2%    39.2    33    222    1,568    1,150    8    0    2    13    59.7%
A.Luck            IND    257    19    366    17    -5.1%    19    -2.6%    65.0    11    662    4,089    3,793    23    5    5    17    55.0%
C.Palmer    CIN    393    17    206    18    2.6%    16    -4.0%    0.0    0    453    2,682    2,845    18    0    2    18    62.5%
T.Siemian    DEN    137    22    214    21    -7.1%    21    -4.8%    55.8    21    516    3,182    2,891    18    1    2    9    59.6%
C.Kessler    CLE    50    24    80    25    -7.6%    22    -5.4%    49.6    28    218    1,225    1,196    6    3    1    2    66.0%
M.Mariota    TEN    -53    30    123    23    -13.2%    28    -6.4%    61.0    16    407    2,551    2,017    19    3    6    10    62.5%
J.Flacco          BAL    232    19    133    25    -3.0%    22    -6.5%    43.2    29    461    2,729    2,606    14    5    2    11    60.4%
R.Tannehill    MIA    39    25    86    24    -9.9%    25    -8.5%    52.3    19    517    3,069    2,694    12    2    3    13    58.5%
C.Wentz         PHI    -36    27    12    26    -12.0%    27    -10.8%    52.8    26    641    3,580    3,254    16    5    2    14    62.7%
S.Bradford    STL    -178    39    -5    34    -15.6%    34    -11.3%    41.5    30    622    3,262    3,006    18    5    2    13    60.4%
A.Smith          SF    -147    38    -140    38    -16.0%    35    -15.8%    0.0    0    477    2,694    2,233    16    5    2    16    59.0%
C.Keenum    LARM    -183    31    -174    31    -19.5%    31    -19.1%    43.4    32    345    2,054    1,507    9    2    1    11    60.9%
D.Carr            OAK    -150    37    -355    41    -14.9%    34    -20.1%    38.4    34    622    3,071    2,969    21    5    4    12    58.9%
B.Osweiler    HOU    -558    33    -502    33    -26.8%    33    -25.3%    55.3    22    535    2,739    2,105    15    3    1    15    59.5%
R.Fitzpatrick    CIN    -315    37    -457    41    -22.9%    35    -28.1%    38.1    33    408    1,707    1,736    8    4    4    8    59.7%
M.Stafford    DET    -653    45    -497    43    -36.6%    41    -30.6%    30.0    37    394    2,091    1,178    13    3    1    20    54.5%
B.Bortles    JAC    -955    44    -935    44    -40.7%    43    -40.0%    21.9    43    530    2,554    1,310    11    5    0    16    59.1%
J.Goff             LARM    -881    34    -819    34    -74.8%    34    -70.3%    22.2    34    230    876    -85    5    3    2    7    54.9%

EYDS, which is DVOA melded into a yard per play stat.

Code:

Player        Team    DYAR    Rk    YAR    Rk    DVOA    Rk    VOA    QBR    Rk    Pass    Yards    EYds    TD    FK    FL    INT    C%
K.Cousins    WAS    1,023    7    1,125    5    16.9%    6    19.7%    70.1    6    570    3,979    4,329    29    2    3    11    69.8%
D.Prescott    DAL    1,302    4    1,220    5    31.6%    3    28.9%    81.5    3    483    3,527    4,229    23    2    4    4    68.1%
A.Rodgers    GB    708    12    746    10    8.5%    14    9.6%    66.9    8*    569    3,775    3,859    28    6    3    13    64.5%
E.Manning    NYG    632    9    610    11    6.0%    17    5.4%    0.0    0    585    3,573    3,840    24    6    2    17    52.9%
A.Luck            IND    257    19    366    17    -5.1%    19    -2.6%    65.0    11    662    4,089    3,793    23    5    5    17    55.0%
P.Rivers    SD    891    6    931    6    17.4%    9    18.7%    0.0    0    490    3,203    3,724    22    4    2    9    62.4%
M.Ryan           ATL    1,012    7    875    7    25.3%    4    20.3%    74.1    3    451    3,330    3,609    16    3    1    11    61.3%
A.Dalton    CIN    575    12    485    12    5.6%    13    3.0%    45.6    26    540    3,224    3,550    20    1    2    13    58.3%
J.Winston    TB    467    16    495    15    2.1%    16    2.9%    58.6    21    560    3,828    3,480    22    2    1    15    58.9%
R.Wilson    SEA    872    8    741    12    19.7%    6    15.0%    69.6    8    432    2,935    3,467    26    3    3    9    64.6%
C.Kaepernick    SF    791    8    650    13    16.6%    7    11.7%    68.6    7    456    2,969    3,358    21    1    3    7    58.4%
C.Newton    CAR    404    15    428    13    0.8%    16    1.5%    55.0    18    551    3,810    3,287    21    3    2    17    60.3%
D.Brees          SD    344    21    430    18    -1.3%    25    1.2%    0.0    0    548    3,104    3,279    17    2    0    15    61.1%
C.Wentz    PHI    -36    27    12    26    -12.0%    27    -10.8%    52.8    26    641    3,580    3,254    16    5    2    14    62.7%
T.Brady           NE    491    13    494    12    5.4%    12    5.5%    0.0    0    456    2,625    3,059    18    9    3    11    64.1%
S.Bradford    STL    -178    39    -5    34    -15.6%    34    -11.3%    41.5    30    622    3,262    3,006    18    5    2    13    60.4%
D.Carr            OAK    -150    37    -355    41    -14.9%    34    -20.1%    38.4    34    622    3,071    2,969    21    5    4    12    58.9%
B.Rothlsbrgr    PIT    908    11    843    10    31.7%    3    28.7%    0.0    0    326    2,393    2,942    17    0    2    10    67.2%
T.Siemian    DEN    137    22    214    21    -7.1%    21    -4.8%    55.8    21    516    3,182    2,891    18    1    2    9    59.6%
C.Palmer    CIN    393    17    206    18    2.6%    16    -4.0%    0.0    0    453    2,682    2,845    18    0    2    18    62.5%
T.Taylor    BUF    536    14    486    16    9.8%    8    7.9%    67.8    7    417    2,810    2,790    20    5    1    6    63.7%
R.Tannehill    MIA    39    25    86    24    -9.9%    25    -8.5%    52.3    19    517    3,069    2,694    12    2    3    13    58.5%
J.Flacco          BAL    232    19    133    25    -3.0%    22    -6.5%    43.2    29    461    2,729    2,606    14    5    2    11    60.4%
B.Hoyer          CLE    166    25    255    21    -5.3%    26    -2.2%    43.1    31    465    3,170    2,513    12    2    1    12    55.7%
A.Smith          SF    -147    38    -140    38    -16.0%    35    -15.8%    0.0    0    477    2,694    2,233    16    5    2    16    59.0%
B.Osweiler    HOU    -558    33    -502    33    -26.8%    33    -25.3%    55.3    22    535    2,739    2,105    15    3    1    15    59.5%
M.Mariota    TEN    -53    30    123    23    -13.2%    28    -6.4%    61.0    16    407    2,551    2,017    19    3    6    10    62.5%
R.Fitzpatrick    CIN    -315    37    -457    41    -22.9%    35    -28.1%    38.1    33    408    1,707    1,736    8    4    4    8    59.7%
C.Keenum    LARM    -183    31    -174    31    -19.5%    31    -19.1%    43.4    32    345    2,054    1,507    9    2    1    11    60.9%
B.Bortles    JAC    -955    44    -935    44    -40.7%    43    -40.0%    21.9    43    530    2,554    1,310    11    5    0    16    59.1%
C.Kessler    CLE    50    24    80    25    -7.6%    22    -5.4%    49.6    28    218    1,225    1,196    6    3    1    2    66.0%
M.Stafford    DET    -653    45    -497    43    -36.6%    41    -30.6%    30.0    37    394    2,091    1,178    13    3    1    20    54.5%
M.Barkley    CHI    4    26    127    23    -10.9%    26    -2.2%    39.2    33    222    1,568    1,150    8    0    2    13    59.7%
J.Goff             LARM    -881    34    -819    34    -74.8%    34    -70.3%    22.2    34    230    876    -85    5    3    2    7    54.9%

I don't think this is condemnation of Siemian. I don't think it's a crowning of Siemian, either. It is what it is. There is potential for him to be a decent quarterback, but I don't think he played well last year. He's not trash, he's not Tebow or Akili Smith. He's certainly a pleasant surprise as a seventh round pick, and I certainly hope he will be good as he is the person that I believe will be announced out of the tunnel on opening night and, as long as he's healthy, all 16 games this season. I don't think Lynch is ready (just a gut feeling, I haven't watched any of training camp), Sloter is training camp fodder and Kelly is going to be on IR, or the third quarterback.

Puts him middle of the pack, with most of those above and below him QBs drafted far earlier, many who also started as rookies, not second year players.

As you said, doesn't condemn or crown, but at least shows he wasn't awful as a first year starter (as many contend) compared to other first year starters, but instead middle of the pack

Originally Posted by Tned

Translation: you discounted a stat with an assumption, when another stat provec your assumption wrong, you deflected with a quip.

Nope, Siemian got blitzed, never said he didn't. I said that teams didn't have to blitz, and they didn't, not with that OL. Waste of energy. I discounted your "provec" (whatever the **** that means) stat because my joke was more relevant.

Btw, I didn't discount your original stat, I agreed with it. I high fived the post, Siemian good when blitzed, never said otherwise.

Now I understand why you can't interpret the same sources correctly.

Originally Posted by Tned

Who was the main villain?

The line.

Sweet Jumpin' Jeebus TNED! And people accuse me of lengthy posts! Talk about the Encyclopedia Britannica there!

Breaking one small paragraph off from that indigestible mass:

I think with Kelly we probably have the best QB of the lot. If you wiped out all history of the four QBs. Knew nothing about their careers, off field problems, etc. and simply put the top scout from all 32 teams into a room and had them watch film of the four QBs, with NO other facts or history to go on, only one of the QBs would be identified as a first round selection, and it would likely be nearly universal from the 32 scouts. So, Kelly has all of the physical skills to be an elite QB, he just might not have the brains/temperament to even be a backup. He's the very epitome of the high risk/high reward player, but by picking him last in the NFL, there isn't much risk, so let's say the epitome of a boom or bust QB.

Kelly will get his chance next season to start unless either Trevor or Paxton convinces John Elway that he's on his way to becoming the next Derek Carr, i.e. a top 10 QB. Right now they're both light years away.

Elway knows full well that what happened in 2015 was a one in a lifetime fluke. The '85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, 2015 Broncos - none ever repeated winning with just defense and virtually no offense. The Bears for instance had a very good defense for years, but no joy because they'd get in the playoffs and they had Jim McMahon, and the Giants had Phil Simms and the 49ers had Joe Montana.

So, if the Broncos are to get past Brady and the Patriots or Roethlisberger and the Steelers, they need a top 10 QB. It's too much to expect that guy to be a Hall of Fame QB like Roethlisberger, Manning or Brady. But, they have to be 2nd tier. You're not going to find an Aaron Rogers or Drew Brees, or probably Phillip Rivers, but hopefully something like Russell Wilson, Joe Flacco, Derek Carr, Eli Manning - all guys who either have won SBs or could.

You can name your own list. But, for the Broncos to have a realistic chance, their QB just can't be TOO far behind Tom Brady. That's the dilemma that has thwarted the Chiefs for years - lots of talent on both sides of the ball now, but when they have Roethlisberger, and you have Alex Smith, you don't have much chance.

Put a decent QB on that Chiefs roster and maybe they beat the Steelers and go to Foxborough for the AFC Championship Game. Maybe (in their dreams) it's the Chiefs winning their first Super Bowl since they beat the Vikings. So, they draft Pat Mahomes.

Elway sees all this of course, and he's not going to be satisfied having the 3rd worst or worst QB in the division. So, the bar is set very high indeed. And either or both Siemian and Paxton winding up as the next Kyle Orton is just not good enough. If that's all they can do, then Elway will go back to the first round of the draft in 2018 and draft another franchise QB. Then they trade Siemian and start Paxton until either the rookie or Chad Kelly is ready to start. Then he backs up till the end of his contract, at which point they let him walk (4 years, no 5th year option in this scenario).

Originally Posted by Jaded

Nope, Siemian got blitzed, never said he didn't. I said that teams didn't have to blitz, and they didn't, not with that OL. Waste of energy. I discounted your "provec" (whatever the **** that means) stat because my joke was more relevant.

Btw, I didn't discount your original stat, I agreed with it. I high fived the post, Siemian good when blitzed, never said otherwise.

Now I understand why you can't interpret the same sources correctly.

You are making a contention that teams didn't blitz the Broncos, but only 11 QBs were blitzed at a higher percentage than Siemian. What you just said isn't accurate.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

The line.

It's hard to discount them as the main villain, especially the tackles, but it will be interesting (and I hope we don't see it) to see how Stephenson and Sambrailo perform with a new scheme.