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Thread: Chester Bennington dead at 41

  1. #31

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    I think there is a middle ground where you can say "suicide is selfish and now his kids don't have a father" while also saying "depression is so bad that it can make people no longer care about the consequences of their death, maybe we should do more to help these people".

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    Quote Originally Posted by aberdien View Post
    I think there is a middle ground where you can say "suicide is selfish and now his kids don't have a father" while also saying "depression is so bad that it can make people no longer care about the consequences of their death, maybe we should do more to help these people".
    Fair - I think there is also a fair counterpoint that there is enough information available about mental health nowadays that a father of 6 needs to bear some responsibility for getting themselves care. But it's also true that someone in that position needs support and help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aberdien View Post
    I think there is a middle ground where you can say "suicide is selfish and now his kids don't have a father" while also saying "depression is so bad that it can make people no longer care about the consequences of their death, maybe we should do more to help these people".
    Curious? What more can someone do to help, if an individual isn't willing to help themselves? This guy had the money, and I am sure there was no lack of resources that could of helped him.
    why you so serious!

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    I have some personal experience about this being the Dad, but not the sperm donor, to two of my kids. Personally I think the kids are better off. And that's not because I'm in their life, but because of the destructive behavior of the suicidal person. He was offered all kinds of help, but walked out on it all. If still living, he would have made my wife's life miserable as well as the kids because he just simply wasn't interested in helping himself. Maybe that would have changed over time, but frankly and unrepentantly, I say good riddance.

    How many murder-suicides to we read about all the time? This guy, the night before he killed himself, tried to get my wife to meet him in a park. Thankfully she said no way. They were separated at the time and I don't think there's any doubt what his intentions were that evening.

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  8. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by GEM View Post
    There was already a thread about it that got deleted by the thread starter. You missed out on what you were waiting for. For what it's worth....it was a selfish act. You just don't do that when you have kids. The mental scars you're inflicting on them are leading them right down the same mental illness path you took your own life over.
    I dated a girl whose dad committed suicide when she was a little girl. She was a little unstable, which I was into back then. She committed suicide years later as well, after she had kids. Now her kids have emotional issues too. I hope the cycle doesn't continue.

    Suicide is selfish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Well, thats just it. Do we see mental illness as some kind of logical behavior or thinking? I said the same thing back then when Buff brought it up the first time and that its not as easy as saying you dont do that if you have kids. Personally, the pain of losing someone affects everyone in your life, not just the kids. But for those of us who deal with this kind of thing it isnt just a switch you can turn on and off and when the switch is turned on the darkness that envelopes you is severe and the logic of anything else going on isnt at the forefront. But by making the statement "it was a selfish act" you are then saying that the kids lives outweigh or are more important than Chester's which i disagree with whole heartily. Men, women, children should all be valued the same. Perhaps it was this attitude and lack of empathy that lead to Chester calling it a day.
    I am essentially arguing the exact opposite of what you're suggesting. The whole reason it's so selfish is that as a father of 6 - Chester's life arguably mattered MORE than all of his kids because there are so many people who were dependent on him.

    The part of your argument (and the one Frey was making in his deleted thread) that I continue to disagree with is this idea that IF people don't excuse the action (suicide) based on mental illness - then somehow we are ignorant to the ravages of depression or can't possibly empathize with someone in his position.

    Whereas there is a perfectly legitimate counterpoint that says - "We know a lot about mental illness, and there are many treatments available - you owe it to your family to exhaust all of those avenues."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoJoe View Post
    I have some personal experience about this being the Dad, but not the sperm donor, to two of my kids. Personally I think the kids are better off. And that's not because I'm in their life, but because of the destructive behavior of the suicidal person. He was offered all kinds of help, but walked out on it all. If still living, he would have made my wife's life miserable as well as the kids because he just simply wasn't interested in helping himself. Maybe that would have changed over time, but frankly and unrepentantly, I say good riddance.

    How many murder-suicides to we read about all the time? This guy, the night before he killed himself, tried to get my wife to meet him in a park. Thankfully she said no way. They were separated at the time and I don't think there's any doubt what his intentions were that evening.
    My ex/dead BIL was the same. He was a drunk/prescription druggie that made my sister and nieces' life miserable. He committed suicide (over time) with the bottle/pills. Terrible situation altogether. They were miserable with him alive, but still scarred & pained with him gone. They offered help, but he refused.

    Not sure if the Chester Bennington situation is the same, if so, then you make a very solid point.
    why you so serious!

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    I am essentially arguing the exact opposite of what you're suggesting. The whole reason it's so selfish is that as a father of 6 - Chester's life arguably mattered MORE than all of his kids because there are so many people who were dependent on him.

    The part of your argument (and the one Frey was making in his deleted thread) that I continue to disagree with is this idea that IF people don't excuse the action (suicide) based on mental illness - then somehow we are ignorant to the ravages of depression or can't possibly empathize with someone in his position.

    Whereas there is a perfectly legitimate counterpoint that says - "We know a lot about mental illness, and there are many treatments available - you owe it to your family to exhaust all of those avenues."
    Well said-

  14. #39

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    There is a sort of failing logic in the notion that you're expecting someone with obvious extreme mental issues to be able to think clearly, guys.

    There's also a presupposition that those avenues aren't or haven't been exhausted. There's already reports out there that his wife cheated on him, and he was carrying the ravagers of being sexually abused as a child.

    I had a therapist who told me after one of our first meetings that she was shocked at my mental tolerance for the issues I've endured. What if everyone's isn't the same? Some might go 'well, he should have the strength to go on then because of his kids,' and what if his kids were the reason he lasted as long as he did? Or what if, if the reports of his wife are true, that she cheated on him, and that act of betrayal were the straws that broke the camel's back? What if it issue is just more complicated than being strong and resilient?

    Because if we're going to just put this into black and white logic, we're totally oblivious to the issues at hand because human emotion and psyches are much more complicated and illogical than that.

    Just my thoughts.
    Crazy how he had a good heart; but those bad, bad hands...

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    King, why did you delete the other longer post you made?
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  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
    King, why did you delete the other longer post you made?
    Because that post was just about logical argumentation and on days like this, sheer brutal logic isn't the best course of action. If I am trying to make a point on this sort of stuff, rigid formulations won't work when I'm arguing against a sort of boxed-in formula that is being presented.

    And I think I was being partially douchey in the post.
    Crazy how he had a good heart; but those bad, bad hands...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    There is a sort of failing logic in the notion that you're expecting someone with obvious extreme mental issues to be able to think clearly, guys.

    There's also a presupposition that those avenues aren't or haven't been exhausted. There's already reports out there that his wife cheated on him, and he was carrying the ravagers of being sexually abused as a child.

    I had a therapist who told me after one of our first meetings that she was shocked at my mental tolerance for the issues I've endured. What if everyone's isn't the same? Some might go 'well, he should have the strength to go on then because of his kids,' and what if his kids were the reason he lasted as long as he did? Or what if, if the reports of his wife are true, that she cheated on him, and that act of betrayal were the straws that broke the camel's back? What if it issue is just more complicated than being strong and resilient?

    Because if we're going to just put this into black and white logic, we're totally oblivious to the issues at hand because human emotion and psyches are much more complicated and illogical than that.

    Just my thoughts.
    We have too many gray areas and some areas in life are black and white for me:

    1.) Murder someone intentionally and it's not self-defense related? Your life no longer matters. We could summarily execute all of them as far as I'm concerned - juvenile, mental illness - whatever. Doesn't make any difference to me.
    2.) Having kids and then committing suicide? You are selfish and weak. Full stop - no gray areas.
    3.) Cheer for the Dodgers? You have questionable judgment - no doubt about it.

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  20. #43
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    This guy owed it to his kids to be strong....he was their father. If someone has that great of mental illness, I would suggest not bringing another life into this world.
    why you so serious!

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  22. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    We have too many gray areas and some areas in life are black and white for me:

    1.) Murder someone intentionally and it's not self-defense related? Your life no longer matters. We could summarily execute all of them as far as I'm concerned - juvenile, mental illness - whatever. Doesn't make any difference to me.
    2.) Having kids and then committing suicide? You are selfish and weak. Full stop - no gray areas.
    3.) Cheer for the Dodgers? You have questionable judgment - no doubt about it.
    Bandwagon Dodgers fan.
    why you so serious!

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  24. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    We have too many gray areas and some areas in life are black and white for me:

    1.) Murder someone intentionally and it's not self-defense related? Your life no longer matters. We could summarily execute all of them as far as I'm concerned - juvenile, mental illness - whatever. Doesn't make any difference to me.
    2.) Having kids and then committing suicide? You are selfish and weak. Full stop - no gray areas.
    3.) Cheer for the Dodgers? You have questionable judgment - no doubt about it.
    So because other areas of life are complicated we must pick arbitrary, or should pick arbitrary, areas to be black and white? So if a 14 year old, whom experts can agree don't fully understand their actions, kills someone like that they should be killed? If someone is not in control of their actions because they're mentally ill, like PTSD or schizophrenic, they should die? You can hold that opinion, but it's not well-reasoned and flies in the face of...intelligence.

    I suppose I should ask you to justify your opinion on suicide based on logic, scholarship, etc. But I don't think you will.

    Cheer for the Dodgers? Impeccable taste. Probably have a splendid beard and kind hazel eyes.

    I sort of loathe you right now. Which means our bromance is strong.
    Crazy how he had a good heart; but those bad, bad hands...

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