Thread: McShay's Top 32: Christian McCaffrey rising up the board

I don't have the heart to tell Cugel that Ziggy Ansah was a development and raw player. Or Jason Pierre-Paul. Or Kyle Long. All three of those guys are or were pro bowl caliber players. All three of them came into the league very raw. This whole notion that you can't take someone who isn't starter material right away is really silly. Most first round WR's are inconsequential as rookies - yet WR's are sought after.

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

And he was still the best tackle we had......and we still have all those other tackles.

That is the point!

Look, if Denver had a decent LT, fine. Don't let the door hit you on your way out of town Russell! But, they don't.

And the draft? There's not an answer in the draft. Not for 2017 anyway. Now sure you can get a developmental guy - hopefully in the 2nd or 3rd round. There will be several T's available who will be no worse than Ryan Ramczyk, or Bolles or Robinson. All developmental guys. All guys who have some work to do to be any good at the next level. All guys who have some skills but need some time to develop.

And Denver does not have that time! They need a guy who is starter ready day 1. Period.

And that guy is not going to be a rookie. It takes an exceptional rookie like a Ryan Clady to step in and be any good as a starter. And there just doesn't appear to be that kind of player in this draft.

"First round grade" - maybe, if you are satisfied to get a player who will eventually be a solid starter.

The Broncos already HAVE a guy like that. His name is Ty Sambrailo. None of these guys are better prospects than Ty Sambrailo who was a 2nd round pick. In this draft Sambrailo would be given "a first round grade". He might actually have been the best LT prospect in a very bad draft class.

And did you see Sambrailo last year when he finally was able to play? He was so bad the TV announcers said "you have to get him out of the game." It was like prize-fight announcers who are publicly calling on the ref to stop a fight cause one guy is just unable to defend himself.

So, yes, the Broncos need to take a T. But, God no! NOT in the first round. Unless they trade back, maybe with the Texans to #25. If they do that, then fine, go ahead and reach for a first round T. And they could do that trade with because the Texans desperately want to draft Pat Mahomes. Mahomes won't be there at #25, but he could be there at #20. So, a deal is possible. Maybe even probable. The Texans need that future franchise QB, because Tom Savage is just a maybe OK QB. And Mahomes is their guy - if they can get him.

Sambrailo was injured. Looks like he's healthy and he's got this year to set things straight about his ability.

All those guys have legitimate first round grades on them. You can't call them developmental guys when they have first round grades when, in tandem, first round LT's tend to start more often than not.

You're taking the analysts that you like and applying it like fact. Categorically.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Sambrailo was injured. Looks like he's healthy and he's got this year to set things straight about his ability.

If he plays, time will tell. Up to know, he is horrible.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

I don't have the heart to tell Cugel that Ziggy Ansah was a development and raw player. Or Jason Pierre-Paul. Or Kyle Long. All three of those guys are or were pro bowl caliber players. All three of them came into the league very raw. This whole notion that you can't take someone who isn't starter material right away is really silly. Most first round WR's are inconsequential as rookies - yet WR's are sought after.

I do have the heart to tell you that all that crap is totally irrelevant. Two defensive ends and a Guard? So friggin' what? LT is a different animal altogether. It's the 2nd most difficult position to play in the NFL after QB.

It takes an exceptional player to step in year one and be a good LT. And there is not one player in this draft who projects to be that kind of player. And if there was, the Broncos would not be drafting him because he'd be taken in the top 5!

Stink is right. You're just blowing smoke if you think they are just going to throw in the rookie and say "Go get 'em Tiger!" and he'll just step out and be fine day 1. He said that, not me. So did Jeff Saturday. So did Tyler Polumbus. They're right. You're wrong.

I don't give a rat's ass what that player is like in year two. How many years does this elite defense have? 1 year? 2 years? You can't throw away the Broncos SB chances in 2017. And they will be throwing away any chance of winning the SB in 2017 if they don't have an acceptable veteran LT able to start and do a good job starting game 1 in 2017.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Sambrailo was injured. Looks like he's healthy and he's got this year to set things straight about his ability.

I still like Sambrailo. I like it that Elway hasn't given up on him. It would be a great story if he proves that he's figured out his technique issues, gotten over his injury problems, been able to work out in the weight room and gotten much stronger, and got his confidence back.

But, as Stink says, "I just threw in about 6 maybes". Maybe he's a great player now. God, I hope so.

It sure didn't look that way last year, but it's a new year and a new staff. Elway seems to think in his presser that they could throw Ty Sambrailo out there and he'd be fine. OK, let's see it.

I'd rather see Ty Sambrailo than a 1st round LT any day. How are you going to defend this pick if Ty Sambrailo ends up starting anyway? And that is a very real possibility. Even if he turns out ultimately to fail at LT this season, he could easily get the starting job over any rookie LT they can draft this year.

Hold on - you spout off how you can't take developmental guys because they won't do anything. Those guys exist and prove you wrong. You then call it irrelevant.

Whew. That's incredible.

You then say it takes an exceptional LT to be good in one year. This is after you tell us the sky is falling because we didn't sign a guy who was one of the worst players at his position. Whew. That's incredible.

We must not tolerate growing pains/bad play from rookie LT. Instead, we must dedicate a big chunk of our cap to bad veteran LT's who are consistently getting worse.

You then tell us that we need proper play immediately because of our aging defense...when the guy you wanted resigned was bad last year...again...that's somehow okay for Okung.

Someone get this man some style!

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

I forgot about Watson. Do you really think he's better than Okung?

He played LT and RT for raiders just has issues veing healthy.

Cugel, for what it's worth, I'd have a beer with you.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Hold on - you spout off how you can't take developmental guys because they won't do anything. Those guys exist and prove you wrong. You then call it irrelevant.

Whew. That's incredible.

You then say it takes an exceptional LT to be good in one year. This is after you tell us the sky is falling because we didn't sign a guy who was one of the worst players at his position. Whew. That's incredible.

We must not tolerate growing pains/bad play from rookie LT. Instead, we must dedicate a big chunk of our cap to bad veteran LT's who are consistently getting worse.

You then tell us that we need proper play immediately because of our aging defense...when the guy you wanted resigned was bad last year...again...that's somehow okay for Okung.

Someone get this man some style!

He's a veteran. A rookie is a rookie. A mediocre veteran is better than almost any rookie - at LT. This year. I'm unhappy with Elway only because he didn't do a trade and get a veteran LT to hold down the position.

Then you can take a T in the 2nd round, develop him for a year and then put him in and hopefully he'll be fine.

A DE is not a LT. It's a much harder position to play, so no, your idiotic example is worthless.

A G is not a LT. G's are playing in a phone booth. The LG has a LT on his outside shoulder and the C on his inside. He doesn't have to worry about getting edge rushed by elite pass rushers. It's a totally different animal. And a DL is simply not comparable at all. What difference does it make if a DE steps in year one and is an impact player? Does that mean that a QB should be able to do that? Or a LT?

So you don't think rookie LT's can be better or on par than what Okung did? Do you know how bad Okung was?

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Cugel, for what it's worth, I'd have a beer with you.

Now you're making me sad. I can't drink much beer these days. It gives me too much gas!

No, that is not a good thing to happen in public. Maybe with my closest friends I can get away with it, although they complain. Let me give you some sage advice young man! When you get old, never trust a fart!

Originally Posted by Cugel

Now you're making me sad. I can't drink much beer these days. It gives me too much gas!

No, that is not a good thing to happen in public. Maybe with my closest friends I can get away with it, although they complain. Let me give you some sage advice young man! When you get old, never trust a fart!

Whiskey?

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

So you don't think rookie LT's can be better or on par than what Okung did? Do you know how bad Okung was?

I'll just let Stink answer that question:

Now if you think you’re going to draft one of these young guys, and you’re going to put him in at the left tackle and that kid is just going to produce, then I think you’re living a bit of a pipe dream. I think that is hard to do. I think that is really hard to come out of college into the NFL and play the toughest position in football next to quarterback . And that’s Left Tackle. It’s just a hard position to play.

And you’re insulated if you play on the inside [at guard] And that is why you see guys you see guys like Jonathan Ogden who is a Hall of Fame Left Tackle. You know where Jonathan Ogden started his career? He was a first round pick out of UCLA at the left tackle position. Where did he start? He started at left guard for a year. Because you’re insulated. You have a tackle on your outside and a center on your inside. You’re playing in a phone booth. And you can learn the game there at the guard position. We have seen this consistently.

Last year, Laremy Tunsil, #13 pick overall to the Miami Dolphins, where did he start? He started at left guard. So you insulate those guys, you teach them how to play the game. You keep a body presence on both sides of them, and you let them learn before you move them out and transition them to left tackle.

Well, the Broncos, take a look at them. They went out and got Ronald Leary to play left guard. It’s going to be really hard to sell anybody that you’re going to be OK there drafting a rookie left tackle and then sending them out saying ‘OK, go get ‘em Tiger!’ It just hasn’t worked.”