Thread: Mark Schlereth Calls Out Elway To Make A Trade Happen!

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

I see Walterfootball is prone to awful hyperbole, too.

I used to use them as a reference to doing my mock drafts but then realized that some of their approaches to teams are completely off and uninformed. They have had Denver in the past taking players they had no business even looking at. Not the best reference point really.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

The McCaffreys and Njokus are just wet dreams right now until we take care of our more immediate needs.

They may or may not be gone before Denver drafts but if for some reason McCaffrey is there you dont pass up on him. At the end of the day you still need playmakers and difference makers. Its still about value for the pick and the draft rarely plays out the way its supposed to.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

Cugel, if LT isn't addressed, the Broncos are doomed. It's that simple. All the "impact" RBs and TEs are worthless if we can't slow down speed rushers. How they address the issue is fine but they have to address it before anything else.

If the Broncos think Bolles is their answer, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Duane Brown was a LT choice as the 26th overall choice and has been a Pro Bowler more than once so it *can* happen but I'd be happier with an established veteran even if it costs us our #1 pick and some extras. The McCaffreys and Njokus are just wet dreams right now until we take care of our more immediate needs.

Just because you draft a T in the first round doesn't make that guy better than he is. NO rookie in this draft can just step in and start and be any good. So, is Bolles really much better in the long term than Dion Dawkins, or Taylor Moton, guys who will be available in the 2nd round? They're all developmental guys! All the Ts in this draft are guys you probably need a year or two to develop. I've seen mocks where Ramcyk goes in the top 17. If he was your guy do you just take Bolles? Hell no!

You just can't reach for a guy in the first round. That is just a disaster. And NONE of the tackle prospects are worth the #20 pick because none of them can step in and start. Which means you are either trading for a guy or else trying to get by with Michael Schofield, Ty Sambrailo or Donald Stephenson at LT.

Frankly, if Elway just says: "we tried to find a T in FA but they were all old and overpaid, and we tried to make a trade but couldn't get it done, so we're just drafting a T in the 2nd or 3rd round and seeing what we have with Sambrailo. And maybe we can swing a trade or a guy gets cut in training camp we can bring in and get by for a season." I'd be OK with that.

You can appease a bunch of clueless fans by drafting a T at #20 and say "well they addressed the problem." NO! No they haven't! Not unless you really think that guy will step in and be another Ryan Clady. But, Clady was the #12 pick of the draft and would go in the top 3 picks if he were in this draft.

Mayock has three tackles with first round grades on them. Thus far, Mayock is the best 'source' I've seen about the tackles.

Originally Posted by Northman

They may or may not be gone before Denver drafts but if for some reason McCaffrey is there you dont pass up on him. At the end of the day you still need playmakers and difference makers. Its still about value for the pick and the draft rarely plays out the way its supposed to.

Agreed. Outside of QB, you can find a way to fill holes by hook or crook. They may be poorly filled like soft earth that is prone to zombie expurgation, but you can get em filled.

#fillholes

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Mayock has three tackles with first round grades on them. Thus far, Mayock is the best 'source' I've seen about the tackles.

Like the meh QBs in this class, they benefit from scarcity and demand.

Originally Posted by Northman

They may or may not be gone before Denver drafts but if for some reason McCaffrey is there you dont pass up on him. At the end of the day you still need playmakers and difference makers. Its still about value for the pick and the draft rarely plays out the way its supposed to.

This is absolutely right! What will Broncos fans feel if the Broncos pass on a difference maker at #20 because Elway couldn't find a mediocre LT in FA, only to see Bolles develop into a mediocre LT - in 2018 or 2019! Meanwhile Njoku or McCaffrey is just tearing up the league? Or John Ross develops into a top 10 WR?

THe first round is for impact players, not developmental guys who MIGHT turn into starters in year 2 and maybe will better than average players.

I for one will not be happy, and I will say stuff about that and so will a lot of fans. It will be a serious blight on Elway's performance.

But, I would be very surprised if Elway is stupid enough to just follow the herd and draft a T at #20 unless his scouts are reasonably sure that the guy is a ten year starter. That's what you expect to find at #20 - a guy you can plug in and he can be a stalwart on your team for the next six to 10 years.

First round picks are just too important assets to waste on a guy who isn't a difference maker!

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Like the meh QBs in this class, they benefit from scarcity and demand.

That's exactly right. None of these guys would be drafted in the first round in a normal year. This is just the worst draft class for Ts in the last 15 years according to one NFL GM. Well, if the guy isn't a first round talent, then don't draft him in the first round.

LOSER teams are so desperate they reach for a player at a position of need. They are always drafting for need, so they pass on play-makers and over-reach for guys who are just average talent. Then their team is mediocre and the coach gets fired and they start over again from scratch. Story of the Cleveland Browns year after year.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Agreed. Outside of QB, you can find a way to fill holes by hook or crook. They may be poorly filled like soft earth that is prone to zombie expurgation, but you can get em filled.

#fillholes

That's been my approach all along. That's why I was arguing to just pay Russell Okung $11M he was due. He was mediocre and everybody criticized my approach. But, mediocre is looking pretty good right about now.

He'd certainly be better than either Bolles or Ramczyk their rookie year! And if you don't desperately need a LT, then you can draft a guy in the 3rd round and develop him for a year or 2.

For instance, Alabama LB Reuben Foster could conceivably fall. It's unlikely, but what if someone like that was sitting there and you could draft him? Do you just draft a boring mediocre tackle instead of an impact player just because he plays a position of need? Well, Cleveland and Detroit do stuff like that. Smart teams jump all over that impact player, like Laremy Tunsil who unexpectedly fell to the Dolphins last year at #13, after a video surfaced the day before the draft showing him smoking a gas-mask bong.

"He also seems like a bit of a luxury given high-priced Branden Albert plays left tackle and RT Ja'Wuan James was picked in the first round two years ago. Still, the Dolphins clearly remained true to their board and get a player who will protect QB Ryan Tannehill and should help a 23rd-ranked ground game."

So, the Dolphins already seemed set at T. They didn't need Tunsil, but he was by far the best player on their board so they grabbed him. Smart.

Someone will fall to #20 and the Broncos have to be ready to pounce. Anything else will be a terrible draft failure.

So Elway doesn't sign an overrated and underproducing LT and you'd be mad that he drafts a guy that a lot of analysts feel is a first rounder? So, here's thought - if those guys are barely first round prospects (and note that the big issue is that they've only produced for one year in college) but they're in the same hemisphere as Okung...you replaced his production for a fraction of the cost. That's not even factoring in the notion that they're going to develop on and grow, too.

I think you choose to ignore that Okung was in the bottom quarter of LT play. And the notion that it's worse because we lost out on what? A WR? One of the most bust prone positions? A RB? The position that is deepest with incredible talent this year? If the first round is for impact players, and that's your argument, remove WR from the list. Well, you seem to want immediate impact, but RB can be had in other rounds, so remove that, too. We drafting a QB? Nah? Well that one goes? We need a pass rusher? Nope.

Sometimes you end up drafting an ILB - who many feel are not impact players in a 3-4. No one's ever drafted a DT in the first? Well those guys don't (usually) get a ton of sacks, or stats, so they're no impact players either!

But back to the tackles!

This isn't a good draft for offensive linemen, and that may factor into the decision the Broncos make with the No. 20 pick in the first round, NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock said during an extensive conference call with media from around the continent Monday.

"This is a really bad offensive tackle class," he said, citing only two tackles -- Wisconsin's Ryan Ramczyk and Utah's Garett Bolles -- as potential first-rounders. Mayock said he sees Alabama's Cam Robinson as more of a guard prospect than a tackle.

"Put it this way: I think Ryan Ramczyk is the best tackle in the draft. And to tell you where this draft is for tackles, the two top guys -- Ramczyk and Garett Bolles from Utah -- are both one-year starters in major college football, which is kind of amazing," Mayock said. "I would say that if Ramczyk was in last year's draft, he would be the fourth or fifth [offensive tackle] taken.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-an...a-83d0459ee6a9

So you have to first round grades, albeit not staggeringly high ones. Gues what? I can point to a whole slew of highly touted LT who bused. So there's a certain point where if we take a LT I'm fine. Because the one we had was bad. These ones are rough around the edges, but do have the talent. And while they might be bad, Okung was bad, and if they need time to develop they're just like any other player.

Take the tackle with upside and coach him up

If we take a tackle at 20 it will be worth it just for the month long, foaming at the mouth while head is exploding Cugel rant(s).

So Elway doesn't sign an overrated and underproducing LT and you'd be mad that he drafts a guy that a lot of analysts feel is a first rounder? So, here's thought - if those guys are barely first round prospects (and note that the big issue is that they've only produced for one year in college) but they're in the same hemisphere as Okung...you replaced his production for a fraction of the cost. That's not even factoring in the notion that they're going to develop on and grow, too.

You're missing the entire point.

You're talking entirely about need. The Broncos need a LT, so they grab a guy at #20 who is *meh* - maybe some scouts have barely a first round grade on him. Mayock points out in the quote you cite that these guys would be the 4th or 5th T taken in last years' draft.

Know who the 5th best T taken in the 2016 draft was? Jason Spriggs, taken by Green Bay at #48 of the second round! And THAT is about where all of these Ts should be taken! Denver cannot be the team that reaches. To reach is to set your franchise back for years because you overdraft a player who will be mediocre.

Denver has already had enough of that kind of problem drafting guys like Montee Ball and Adam Gotsis in the 2nd round. They don't need to draft a mediocre talent in the first round and "develop" him. The first round is NOT for developmental players!

Originally Posted by Timmy!

If we take a tackle at 20 it will be worth it just for the month long, foaming at the mouth while head is exploding Cugel rant(s).

Will it be worth it 3 years from now when guys taken after #20 turn out to be studs while Bolles is at best mediocre?

Are you laughing right now about how Adam Gotsis was drafted in the 2nd round? How about Ty Sambrailo in the 2nd round in 2015 and Jeff Heurmann in the 3rd? Two years later and the Broncos are desperately looking to replace both of those busts and NFL experts all have the Broncos drafting AGAIN at both of their positions, maybe in the first round?

Is that a laugh riot for you now?

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

Take the tackle with upside and coach him up

In the second or third round, yes. In the first round, hell no! The first round is for impact players. Period.