Thread: Joseph talks QB Competition

cant find video of that notre dame game

Don't care one iota about one game in college, especially when I have a full season of NFL games I've seen him play.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Don't care one iota about one game in college, especially when I have a full season of NFL games I've seen him play.

of course you dont. Nor do you care about the good games he had when healthy. I don't know when we started holding rookie quarterbacks who had zero running game and zero protection to such high standards but I find it laughable.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

of course you dont. Nor do you care about the good games he had when healthy. I don't know when we started holding rookie quarterbacks who had zero running game and zero protection to such high standards but I find it laughable.

I loved the Cincinnati game. It was an outlier last year, however.

Joseph has taken a different view of the raw but talented Lynch, pointing to leadership, studying and understanding the offensive system as areas in need of improvement.

folks, if you didn't pay attention to this line, please read it again. . . it's been somewhat widely rumored that lynch hasn't shown great work habits, but to me this confirms it. . . when the head coach says your quarterback needs to improve his study habits, you have a massive problem. . . if a guy is just a slower learner, i have no problem waiting for him, as long as he's going at it as hard as he can-- some of these guys aren't rocket surgeons, and that's okay. . . but if he's not picking it up, and also not working as hard as he needs to, the chances of him ever developing are exceptionally poor. . . he has to know that TS is busting his ass-- if he's not willing to take his own work ethic up to that level, then he basically doesn't want to win, and is probably a lost cause. . . regardless of how much arm talent he has. . . there's absolutely still time for him, but it can't happen if he won't work to make it happen. . .

kingster and Moseph, i am sorry-- but get ready for another year of siemian. . .

Originally Posted by dogfish

folks, if you didn't pay attention to this line, please read it again. . . it's been somewhat widely rumored that lynch hasn't shown great work habits, but to me this confirms it. . . when the head coach says your quarterback needs to improve his study habits, you have a massive problem. . . if a guy is just a slower learner, i have no problem waiting for him, as long as he's going at it as hard as he can-- some of these guys aren't rocket surgeons, and that's okay. . . but if he's not picking it up, and also not working as hard as he needs to, the chances of him ever developing are exceptionally poor. . . he has to know that TS is busting his ass-- if he's not willing to take his own work ethic up to that level, then he basically doesn't want to win, and is probably a lost cause. . . regardless of how much arm talent he has. . . there's absolutely still time for him, but it can't happen if he won't work to make it happen. . .

kingster and Moseph, i am sorry-- but get ready for another year of siemian. . .

I'm aware Lynch was not ready and have not been advocating for him. Denver is already losing more pieces to a great defense, with Siemian as the quarterback, I just can't expect the offense to make up for that decline. I'm sorry I'm not sunshine and rainbows about him.

Elway has now completely whiffed on two top-round quarterbacks, fwiw.

good news is that elway struck gold on his 7th round QB

I find it interesting that Joseph has opinions, other than tape, on either guy. How many practices have they had? Workouts? OTAs? Mini-camps? Hell, the coaches really aren't even allowed to talk to the players other than, "hi, how are ya?" This time of year. So if all the things he's said are based on tape, then so be it. I guess he knows if guys are in the facility working out or studying the playbook, but it's a little early to brand someone a hard worker, leader, or scrub at this stage.

The bottom line in all of this TS vs PL talk is simply that we need to see more from both. Neither showed that they really are a guy to commit the future of the franchise to, yet. The difference that King, Slick, MO and I (aka those not in the Siemian fan club yet) is that we got to see Siemian in 14 games and Lynch in 2. We all saw the hot mess the future SB runner up (ATL) made Lynch look like in his 2nd start and everyone said "not ready" (including me). But we all also saw the stinkers that Siemian served up. Late in the season vs KC for instance when he looked worse than Lynch ever had after only 2 weeks earlier playing well against that same team.

Also, why does Siemian get a pass for playing behind a shit O-line, but the O-line doesn't for playing in front of a new QB? I actually believe that the Oline last year was better than the one that won the Super Bowl. Not "good" by any means, but better at least at the Tackles. There's no way you'll convince me that Ryan Harris, Chris Clark, and Schofield are better than Okung and Stephenson. Perhaps the line play seemed worse because there wasn't a Peyton Manning back there recognizing blitzes and making protection checks or getting rid of the ball quickly when he knew a blitz was on. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

I find it interesting that Joseph has opinions, other than tape, on either guy. How many practices have they had? Workouts? OTAs? Mini-camps? Hell, the coaches really aren't even allowed to talk to the players other than, "hi, how are ya?" This time of year. So if all the things he's said are based on tape, then so be it. I guess he knows if guys are in the facility working out or studying the playbook, but it's a little early to brand someone a hard worker, leader, or scrub at this stage.

The bottom line in all of this TS vs PL talk is simply that we need to see more from both. Neither showed that they really are a guy to commit the future of the franchise to, yet. The difference that King, Slick, MO and I (aka those not in the Siemian fan club yet) is that we got to see Siemian in 14 games and Lynch in 2. We all saw the hot mess the future SB runner up (ATL) made Lynch look like in his 2nd start and everyone said "not ready" (including me). But we all also saw the stinkers that Siemian served up. Late in the season vs KC for instance when he looked worse than Lynch ever had after only 2 weeks earlier playing well against that same team.

Also, why does Siemian get a pass for playing behind a shit O-line, but the O-line doesn't for playing in front of a new QB? I actually believe that the Oline last year was better than the one that won the Super Bowl. Not "good" by any means, but better at least at the Tackles. There's no way you'll convince me that Ryan Harris, Chris Clark, and Schofield are better than Okung and Stephenson. Perhaps the line play seemed worse because there wasn't a Peyton Manning back there recognizing blitzes and making protection checks or getting rid of the ball quickly when he knew a blitz was on. Just a thought.

I would say Coach Joseph is getting the briefing from John Elway, and echoing it to the media.

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

I find it interesting that Joseph has opinions, other than tape, on either guy. How many practices have they had? Workouts? OTAs? Mini-camps? Hell, the coaches really aren't even allowed to talk to the players other than, "hi, how are ya?" This time of year. So if all the things he's said are based on tape, then so be it. I guess he knows if guys are in the facility working out or studying the playbook, but it's a little early to brand someone a hard worker, leader, or scrub at this stage.

The bottom line in all of this TS vs PL talk is simply that we need to see more from both. Neither showed that they really are a guy to commit the future of the franchise to, yet. The difference that King, Slick, MO and I (aka those not in the Siemian fan club yet) is that we got to see Siemian in 14 games and Lynch in 2. We all saw the hot mess the future SB runner up (ATL) made Lynch look like in his 2nd start and everyone said "not ready" (including me). But we all also saw the stinkers that Siemian served up. Late in the season vs KC for instance when he looked worse than Lynch ever had after only 2 weeks earlier playing well against that same team.

Also, why does Siemian get a pass for playing behind a shit O-line, but the O-line doesn't for playing in front of a new QB? I actually believe that the Oline last year was better than the one that won the Super Bowl. Not "good" by any means, but better at least at the Tackles. There's no way you'll convince me that Ryan Harris, Chris Clark, and Schofield are better than Okung and Stephenson. Perhaps the line play seemed worse because there wasn't a Peyton Manning back there recognizing blitzes and making protection checks or getting rid of the ball quickly when he knew a blitz was on. Just a thought.

I believe his recent comments were based from tape he's been watching of Siemian.

Regardless of TS, I love you guys.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

I'm aware Lynch was not ready and have not been advocating for him.

yea, i know. . . when i posted that, it wasn't a barb directed at you and king vonster. . . that was actually, legitimately me commiserating with you guys because i know you hate watching trevor QB the broncos, and i pretty much think y'all is up against it once again. . .

and it's not like i'm real thrilled about it, either. . . i suspect that you are correct. . . the duke to this point looks to be 0-2 on his QB picks. . . really good GMs have survived worse, so it's no thing. . . those guys are hard to find. . . it does leave us in a bit of a tough spot if it is in fact the case, though. . .






you and my man king better hope that you were wrong about trevor, and the extent that the injuries affected his ability to do things like move around, and deliver the intermediate and deeper throws with precision. . .

Why would I hope that I'm wrong. Dude, if TS was actually the guy he'd go down as one of the best draft picks of all time, let alone Denver history. He just hasn't actually demonstrated anything noteworthy as a player, and he's considerably undertalented. Talent tends to win. Not every good player is a great talent, but TS could have gone undrafted. And his college career was legitimately bad.

He was bad last year - the only way his season looks good is if you go 'first year starter stopgap guy...and that's admitting he's not even close to being a QB of the future.

But, I do know that sometimes I am a little frustrated with him and it boils over and into my posts, so I am sorry.

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

Also, why does Siemian get a pass for playing behind a shit O-line, but the O-line doesn't for playing in front of a new QB?

He doesnt and no one has said he doesnt.

I actually believe that the Oline last year was better than the one that won the Super Bowl. Not "good" by any means, but better at least at the Tackles. There's no way you'll convince me that Ryan Harris, Chris Clark, and Schofield are better than Okung and Stephenson. Perhaps the line play seemed worse because there wasn't a Peyton Manning back there recognizing blitzes and making protection checks or getting rid of the ball quickly when he knew a blitz was on. Just a thought.

Actually i can help out here. No, the line last year was not better than in 2015, thats not speculation but proof based upon their ranking following last year. I know you like to think you know more than the team but the stats simply dont back up your opinion. Furthermore, Manning played absolutely DREADFUL the year we won the SB. DREADFUL. I dont think i can make it any clearer, DREADFUL. Like beyond TS bad if you want to use that as a comparison. The one thing that Manning had going for him that Siemian didnt was experience and leadership. But that comes with time for any QB. Without the defense in 2015 we dont win shit. Its that simple.

I cant tell you why Lynch cant out play TS, but when two separate HC's say that Siemian is still the best man to start i have to trust their judgement that they know what they are talking about. Im just a fan who watches games on TV and dont actually work for the organization so if you have a bone to pick with why Lynch isnt starting take it up with them.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Why would I hope that I'm wrong. Dude, if TS was actually the guy he'd go down as one of the best draft picks of all time, let alone Denver history. He just hasn't actually demonstrated anything noteworthy as a player, and he's considerably undertalented. Talent tends to win. Not every good player is a great talent, but TS could have gone undrafted. And his college career was legitimately bad.

He was bad last year - the only way his season looks good is if you go 'first year starter stopgap guy...and that's admitting he's not even close to being a QB of the future.

But, I do know that sometimes I am a little frustrated with him and it boils over and into my posts, so I am sorry.

I love the Duke. But I have to admit that the Kizla l piece a few weeks ago questioning if players came to Denver because of Manning or Elway has some legitimate points.

We can argue Trevor preseason all we want we won't really know what we have until the end of training camp and even into the season. But I will agree with MO and say that Elway and staff have whiffed on a bunch of players. And it really comes down to player evaluation. I mean literally every time they drafted someone recently it seems like there was someone better on the board I'm not picking bones with with Paxton last year honestly. Because everybody had him rated highly period and everyone acknowledged that it would take a little bit of time for him develop.

But I'll tell you what when you trade up in the third round to a Ronnie Hillman and you got Robert turbin and Lamar Miller on the board that tells me there's something wrong with your evaluation process. When you pass on Eddie Lacy's medical to draft Montee Ball who can't even get a job in the league any longer, that tells me you've got an evaluation problem.
I realize all of this stuff is subjective. Elway seems to have done pretty well in free agency. But you can't expect everyone to be a Derek Wolfe or Chris Harris. In all honesty he robbed those guys. And I love talking about the fact that they're so loyal only took Hometown discounts. Those guys are so far underpaid it's ridiculous. So we went out and we paid Ware fair market we went out we paid Talibe fair market Ward most people would say we got at a discount. Other than that from all accounts with the top-tier free agents that we pursue we've been insulting them.

Obviously those of you who know me from my years as a poster on this board know that I'm typically pretty positive. The recent Trend I have to say is alarming. I can't think of a big-name free agent in the past few years that we won the battle on. And the main reason is that Elway's amazing poker-playing ability has also seemingly turned into a guy with a pretty big ego who puts an offer on the table that may not be fair market and says take it or leave it. At some point when you're not winning Super Bowls we don't have a future Hall of Fame quarterback I don't think that schtick works with today's player.

And King I know I don't interact with you all that often. I've been totally intermittent in my posting in the past few years, but I really do enjoy your takes. I just like to argue.

I've been really right about things Broncos over the years I've been really really wrong. My whole thing with Trevor is that I can see the intangibles that made him appealing to the staff and still make him appealing to the staff. I think he's an underrated athlete and if he can stay healthy he actually has a pretty decent arm and throws a fantastic Ball. But I'm not at all saying that I'm completely convinced that he's a lockdown pick for quarterback of the future I'm just less sure about his deficiencies than you are.