Thread: Joseph talks QB Competition

Not much a HC can do if his QB can't grasp the playbook. He becomes a liability then.

Originally Posted by Slick

I would rather see them develop the bigger, stronger armed more mobile kid. It's not about being impatient with Trevor Siemian. Of all the mistakes Kubiak made last year, that was his biggest. I think it's one of the reasons he isn't the coach anymore.

By all accounts the camp competition wasnt even close. Siemian was far better than the journeyman or the rookie. Want to know how to lose the confidence of your veteran roster who just happens to be coming off a super bowl win? Play the high draft pick over the guy who is doing the better job. Is Siemian the future? I have no idea but the consistent discount of the the impact that below average line play and run game had on the offense is something I cant wrap my head around. Then you add in the injuries and i am left to wonder what we really have. Acting as if the serious shoulder injury and high ankle sprain didnt impact his ability to play the position is baffling to me.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

By all accounts the camp competition wasnt even close. Siemian was far better than the journeyman or the rookie. Want to know how to lose the confidence of your veteran roster who just happens to be coming off a super bowl win? Play the high draft pick over the guy who is doing the better job. Is Siemian the future? I have no idea but the consistent discount of the the impact that below average line play and run game had on the offense is something I cant wrap my head around. Then you add in the injuries and i am left to wonder what we really have. Acting as if the serious shoulder injury and high ankle sprain didnt impact his ability to play the position is baffling to me.

Good post-

Originally Posted by Nomad

Not much a HC can do if his QB can't grasp the playbook. He becomes a liability then.

Pretty much. If a QB is a project and needs a lot more work you simply cant put him in just because. That could actually end up hurting his development by forcing him if he is not ready.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

By all accounts the camp competition wasnt even close. Siemian was far better than the journeyman or the rookie. Want to know how to lose the confidence of your veteran roster who just happens to be coming off a super bowl win? Play the high draft pick over the guy who is doing the better job. Is Siemian the future? I have no idea but the consistent discount of the the impact that below average line play and run game had on the offense is something I cant wrap my head around. Then you add in the injuries and i am left to wonder what we really have. Acting as if the serious shoulder injury and high ankle sprain didnt impact his ability to play the position is baffling to me.

I don't know what board you are reading, but the only person who is talking about the offensive line not being so awful that it gives him a total pass is...me.

Also, he's always been hurt in college and that trend didn't change in Denver. Why aren't we talking about how the guy is basically made of glass and eats puppies?

I can't think of too many people who were upset with TS being the starter last year - I certainly wasn't and I'm the guy who has the audacity to talk about TS in a way that isn't lovingly crafted and geareed toward his praises. If PL can't win out the job this year then I'm going to be really skeptical of his future in the league.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

By all accounts the camp competition wasnt even close. Siemian was far better than the journeyman or the rookie. Want to know how to lose the confidence of your veteran roster who just happens to be coming off a super bowl win? Play the high draft pick over the guy who is doing the better job. Is Siemian the future? I have no idea but the consistent discount of the the impact that below average line play and run game had on the offense is something I cant wrap my head around. Then you add in the injuries and i am left to wonder what we really have. Acting as if the serious shoulder injury and high ankle sprain didnt impact his ability to play the position is baffling to me.

I don't know what board you are reading, but the only person who is talking about the offensive line not being so awful that it gives him a total pass is...me.

Also, he's always been hurt in college and that trend didn't change in Denver. Why aren't we talking about how the guy is basically made of glass and eats puppies?

I can't think of too many people who were upset with TS being the starter last year - I certainly wasn't and I'm the guy who has the audacity to talk about TS in a way that isn't lovingly crafted and geareed toward his praises. If PL can't win out the job this year then I'm going to be really skeptical of his future in the league.

King I call bull. He had an acl in college and the injuries last year were more a result of horrid line play than him being a wuss. You've talked about his inability to push the ball. Well guess what. If you can't step up because the pocket is breaking down and you can't generate torque because you can't plant and you're off shoulder is basically falling off then yeah your velocity may suffer

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

King I call bull. He had an acl in college and the injuries last year were more a result of horrid line play than him being a wuss. You've talked about his inability to push the ball. Well guess what. If you can't step up because the pocket is breaking down and you can't generate torque because you can't plant and you're off shoulder is basically falling off then yeah your velocity may suffer

How many full seasons did he play in college? Because he tore his ACL as a senior, was a redshirt, etc. Did he not miss games due to injury in those other years? http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...siemian-1.html

Why else was he not starting?

I hate to break this to you, but even when he had time he was messing up the deep ball. Contrary to the narrative you'd like to push, every snap wasn't a sack, hit, QB pressure, etc. He was on the 24th ranked line - not the Texans line that protected David Carr.

Most the time you missed starts was not due to injury it was because he was splitting starts with Kain Colter. And he injured his non-throwing shoulder an injury which they later found out was b a grade 5 separation which is like your arm is falling out of the socket.

He sustained that injury in week 5 dude. So everything we saw for three-quarters of the season was a guy that was banged up. So no I'm not super surprised that he couldn't push the ball down the field when he couldn't generate torque with his off arm. You've been quick to point out all his deficiencies all while not acknowledging the impact that the injuries had on his ability to do what quarterbacks do whitch is make good throws. We're also not acknowledging the psychological impact that getting hit in the face all the time has on young quarterbacks.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

Most the time you missed starts was not due to injury it was because he was splitting starts with Kain Colter. And he injured his non-throwing shoulder an injury which they later found out was b a grade 5 separation which is like your arm is falling out of the socket.

He sustained that injury in week 5 dude. So everything we saw for three-quarters of the season was a guy that was banged up. So no I'm not super surprised that he couldn't push the ball down the field when he couldn't generate torque with his off arm. You've been quick to point out all his deficiencies all while not acknowledging the impact that the injuries had on his ability to do what quarterbacks do whitch is make good throws. We're also not acknowledging the psychological impact that getting hit in the face all the time has on young quarterbacks.

So let me get this straight - he sucked in college and couldn't win the starting job. I'm sorry for assuming a guy who ended his college career with an injury and then started his professional career with multiplies was injury prone in tandem with him missing a lot of games. Now I know that he's been on a string on injuries and was pathetic in college. Thank you for correcting me.

When I read the scouting reports on TS some of them said he had a solid arm, others said otherwise. They all seemed to point out that he was poor on sideline throw, overthrew open WR's, and wasn't a great decision maker.

Well...all of those things were true for the entire season. Post and pre-injury.

He had a hurt non-throwing shoulder. He missed two games with a bad ankle and then he came back. He's going to have to learn to play through injuries. What's the old saying? After week eight everyone's hurt? He was cleared to play by the staff. If he wasn't healthy enough to be out there then that's not on him. If he was healthy enough to be out there then his play....is on him. They cleared him, right? If he can't get through a season with a line that's bad, he can't play in the NFL. Because I hate to break this to you, every QB who has been good has played with a bad line.

So maybe, it is possible, that he can be above average when healthy. But that's in doubt and it's in doubt that he can last a season.

Originally Posted by Slick

I would rather see them develop the bigger, stronger armed more mobile kid. It's not about being impatient with Trevor Siemian. Of all the mistakes Kubiak made last year, that was his biggest. I think it's one of the reasons he isn't the coach anymore.

A lot of people made a big deal out of PL being raw and inexperienced, while using that defense to say he should have sat on the bench. They then turned around and used the inexperience argument to say that TS was either a rookie or basically a rookie 'omfg he's a first year staaaaaaaaaaaaaarter!'

PL had a similar completion percentage to TS. As an actual rookie. Who was raw and truly inexperienced. If they could go back in time I'd bet they'd just have let PL start.

Now PL gets a chance to be a little experienced, albeit slightly. He got to start. The offense seems to be built in a way that plays to his strengths, too. So, let's just hope that he can beat out TS, because it shouldn't be that hard. Lord knows if it's close VJ would be an idiot to not go with PL, too.

Originally Posted by slim

Do a quick comparison of Trevor's stats from last year vs. Brady's stats his second year in the league.

#GOAT

It also compares well to Marc Bulger, Derek Anderson, Aaron Brooks and Jeff Garcia.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

A lot of people made a big deal out of PL being raw and inexperienced, while using that defense to say he should have sat on the bench. They then turned around and used the inexperience argument to say that TS was either a rookie or basically a rookie 'omfg he's a first year staaaaaaaaaaaaaarter!'

PL had a similar completion percentage to TS. As an actual rookie. Who was raw and truly inexperienced. If they could go back in time I'd bet they'd just have let PL start.

Now PL gets a chance to be a little experienced, albeit slightly. He got to start. The offense seems to be built in a way that plays to his strengths, too. So, let's just hope that he can beat out TS, because it shouldn't be that hard. Lord knows if it's close VJ would be an idiot to not go with PL, too.

You training for the Trollympics, or what?

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

Most the time you missed starts was not due to injury it was because he was splitting starts with Kain Colter. And he injured his non-throwing shoulder an injury which they later found out was b a grade 5 separation which is like your arm is falling out of the socket.

He sustained that injury in week 5 dude. So everything we saw for three-quarters of the season was a guy that was banged up. So no I'm not super surprised that he couldn't push the ball down the field when he couldn't generate torque with his off arm. You've been quick to point out all his deficiencies all while not acknowledging the impact that the injuries had on his ability to do what quarterbacks do whitch is make good throws. We're also not acknowledging the psychological impact that getting hit in the face all the time has on young quarterbacks.

So let me get this straight - he sucked in college and couldn't win the starting job. I'm sorry for assuming a guy who ended his college career with an injury and then started his professional career with multiplies was injury prone in tandem with him missing a lot of games. Now I know that he's been on a string on injuries and was pathetic in college. Thank you for correcting me.

When I read the scouting reports on TS some of them said he had a solid arm, others said otherwise. They all seemed to point out that he was poor on sideline throw, overthrew open WR's, and wasn't a great decision maker.

Well...all of those things were true for the entire season. Post and pre-injury.

He had a hurt non-throwing shoulder. He missed two games with a bad ankle and then he came back. He's going to have to learn to play through injuries. What's the old saying? After week eight everyone's hurt? He was cleared to play by the staff. If he wasn't healthy enough to be out there then that's not on him. If he was healthy enough to be out there then his play....is on him. They cleared him, right? If he can't get through a season with a line that's bad, he can't play in the NFL. Because I hate to break this to you, every QB who has been good has played with a bad line.

So maybe, it is possible, that he can be above average when healthy. But that's in doubt and it's in doubt that he can last a season.

oh sheesh. You do realize that Tom Brady split starts in college as well right? There have been many quarterback tandems at the Collegiate level.

And I completely agree that the great ones have had two sometimes contend with bad a line play. But typically they were given more than a year before people wrote them off as being scrubs.

When you have to cite to Tom Brady, the god of outliers, I lose confidence.

The great ones usually demonstrated that they had some ability. And, if our guy doesn't, as evidenced by everything that we know, why on earth would we want to give him a mulligan?

It's the continuation of logic, Steve. If the line and the injuries give him a free pass then we're essentially back to where we were last year. When I ask what his proponents think he did well, I'm told stuff like 'well he took care of the ball' which is fine...but that's not a baseline for anything. Plenty of GOOD QB's were not careful with the ball, and plenty of great ones were. So when it comes down to actually being good at the game, or showing flashes of it, or demonstrating his actual worth as a player...I get nothing.

So without any qualifiers, what is he good at?

Excellent point. What does he do well? I think he takes command of the offense and he has folks on both sides of the ball believing in him. I thing when given time and healthy he has a cool factor youre either born with or youre not.

Pull up his tape vs Notre Dame in college and youll see what I mean. They shouldn't have even been in that game and Trevor really threw them on his back against a very very good college defense and led Northwestern to the victory. They won their first bowl game and I think 17 years. And went to six consecutive bowls obviously he wasn't part of all of those but he was a part of three of them.

He's extremely accurate. He throws a very very catchable ball. And again go back and read the Chris wesseling article from the end of this season where he was talking about the fact that the defense had really started to buy into Trevor as their quarterback. It's pretty important to have your teammates believe in you