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Thread: Broncos with the 20th pick take . . . (a daily sim)

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    Except, he won't be there at 20. Which I'm happy about because we have bigger needs and i dont want Elway to fall into the trap many fans are. If his name was McDonald and he was from Texas, the local hype and interest would be much less. I say let a team like Indy or Philly have him.
    Normally I'd agree that drafting McCaffrey has the feel of buying the hype, buying high.

    But idk, coach. He has the best vision of this group of RBs, or at least a tie. He just does jedi shit to find the crease and take what he's given. That skill translates well. He's not a tank, no, but he's not a china doll, either. It's reasonable for him to be a 12-15 attempts, 4-8 targets back long term, a 75% offensive snap guy.

    I get that Mixon, for example, offers a similar skill set at a later round. But other backs are downgrades in the passing game. McCaffrey is a true slot receiver and the next best tier of receiving threats (Cook, Mixon, Kamara, the Boise kid) are pass-catching running backs. McCaffrey is practically a pro already in terms of professionalism and maturity, readiness for the pro game and just being a grown-up getting paid big money.

    I'm buying the hype machine, I guess. I just don't see how it's wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    Normally I'd agree that drafting McCaffrey has the feel of buying the hype, buying high.

    But idk, coach. He has the best vision of this group of RBs, or at least a tie. He just does jedi shit to find the crease and take what he's given. That skill translates well. He's not a tank, no, but he's not a china doll, either. It's reasonable for him to be a 12-15 attempts, 4-8 targets back long term, a 75% offensive snap guy.

    I get that Mixon, for example, offers a similar skill set at a later round. But other backs are downgrades in the passing game. McCaffrey is a true slot receiver and the next best tier of receiving threats (Cook, Mixon, Kamara, the Boise kid) are pass-catching running backs. McCaffrey is practically a pro already in terms of professionalism and maturity, readiness for the pro game and just being a grown-up getting paid big money.

    I'm buying the hype machine, I guess. I just don't see how it's wrong.
    McCaffery has the running style of bell....the patience for blocking to develop and he is a true kick off and punt returner as well.

    He can line up in slot or he can come out of back field in passing game and take hand offs in give cj a break.

    He has the bronco fan hype for sure but many teams like him.

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  4. #108
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    No RB in the 1st round. Hopefully some team selects McCaffrey earlier so all this is moot. I want a back that will make teams game plan for him and also makes CJ Anderson expendable. Would love a RB stable consisting of Mixon, Booker, Bibbs, Janovich, and Pumphrey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Would love a RB stable consisting of Mixon, Booker, Bibbs, Janovich, and Pumphrey.
    Although I do NOT want the Broncos to draft Mixon, I guess I could live with that stable if we got it. I especially like Pumphrey as a late round pick.

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  7. #110

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    If McCaffrey is BPA then so be it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    no wr in 1st
    okay, getting back to this. . . it's not like i'm dead set against it, or anything. . . i just don't think the return on investment tends to be AS high as you can get with a lineman, corner or edge rusher. . . i think it's been pretty conclusively proven that you don't have to have elite wideouts to compete at the highest level in today's NFL. . . the QB and the defense are where it's at. . . aqib talib, darrelle revis and richard sherman all have rings. . . between antonio brown, julio jones, calvin johnson and andre johnson, they don't have one. . . not saying you don't want those guys, of course-- but it's not a necessity, and therefore i myself wouldn't prioritize them. . . particularly on a team that already has a true #1 in place. . .

    besides, the college game is producing more quality receivers than ever before. . . a good organization should be able to find guys to plug in without spending their premium picks there, IMO. . . if we think a WR is the clear BPA at #20, i'd almost rather trade down. . . just the way i tend to think about it, so i will hope that the board falls otherwise. . .

  9. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    okay, getting back to this. . . it's not like i'm dead set against it, or anything. . . i just don't think the return on investment tends to be AS high as you can get with a lineman, corner or edge rusher. . . i think it's been pretty conclusively proven that you don't have to have elite wideouts to compete at the highest level in today's NFL. . . the QB and the defense are where it's at. . . aqib talib, darrelle revis and richard sherman all have rings. . . between antonio brown, julio jones, calvin johnson and andre johnson, they don't have one. . . not saying you don't want those guys, of course-- but it's not a necessity, and therefore i myself wouldn't prioritize them. . . particularly on a team that already has a true #1 in place. . .

    besides, the college game is producing more quality receivers than ever before. . . a good organization should be able to find guys to plug in without spending their premium picks there, IMO. . . if we think a WR is the clear BPA at #20, i'd almost rather trade down. . . just the way i tend to think about it, so i will hope that the board falls otherwise. . .
    Antonio Brown is a great example, 4th round pick. I don't think you need to pick WR in 1st either...is probably a mistake. But then DT seems like a solid pick at #24, and I'm be fine picking Calvin Johnson early, he's the best WR to ever play the position...but what's his wins added? It's complex. From play to play, it seems like outside of elite QBs, adding guys like Von and JJ Watt is how you win championships. It's not a dependent variable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

  10. #113

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    Eh - historically defense wins championships. That's not really relevant in the conversation of WR's vs corners. Corners don't make a defense - pass rushers do. And when every team had to 'run' the ball for the majority of the history of the game...run stuffers did. In other words, corners just happen to be on the 'right' side of the ball.

    Plus recent history is just wacky. A bunch of scrubs in NE have rings but Moss didn't get one when he had arguably the best WR season ever. Calvin Johnson was a true WR god, but he played in Detroit. Julio Jones SHOULD have a ring and it took a historic loss to deprive him of that.

    Meanwhile, Talib and Sherman were huge parts of their team...but were a part of elite all-time defenses. Take Sherman off and put in a CB who is the 14th best in the league and fits the scheme/do the same with Peterson/Revis and the dropoff isn't nearly as bad as replacing Julio Jones with Jordy Nelson or whomever you think the 14th best WR is. Granted I didn't feel this way until the recent swath of rules changes. I'm not even sure that Dogginton is wrong, either. I just can't be sure that he's right, though. Also, Sherman is almost strictly a zone coverage guy, and he won't work in a lot of defenses. Revis was the closest thing to Sanders as a coverage guy, so I'll give you that. Talib is a beast, but he had to go to arguably the two best front offices in football to win a damn thing.

    DT was a top ten talent who fell drastically because of being a bit raw and his injury in college. At that point, Dez Bryant, who was arguably the most 'talented' player in the draft (don't get mad at me that was the consensus opinion) was taken after DT. If you get a talent like that, a true blue top five WR talent, it's almost impossible to say no to it. If there is a guy available who jumps like a power forward, runs a 4.3, has really good or great hands, can block, beat great college competition, and basically is a clone of Dez or DT...you do take him. But that guy doesn't seem to exist in any scenario that ends with him being a Bronco.

    I love these talks, BTW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  11. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    Eh - historically defense wins championships. That's not really relevant in the conversation of WR's vs corners. Corners don't make a defense - pass rushers do. And when every team had to 'run' the ball for the majority of the history of the game...run stuffers did. In other words, corners just happen to be on the 'right' side of the ball.

    Plus recent history is just wacky. A bunch of scrubs in NE have rings but Moss didn't get one when he had arguably the best WR season ever. Calvin Johnson was a true WR god, but he played in Detroit. Julio Jones SHOULD have a ring and it took a historic loss to deprive him of that.

    Meanwhile, Talib and Sherman were huge parts of their team...but were a part of elite all-time defenses. Take Sherman off and put in a CB who is the 14th best in the league and fits the scheme/do the same with Peterson/Revis and the dropoff isn't nearly as bad as replacing Julio Jones with Jordy Nelson or whomever you think the 14th best WR is. Granted I didn't feel this way until the recent swath of rules changes. I'm not even sure that Dogginton is wrong, either. I just can't be sure that he's right, though. Also, Sherman is almost strictly a zone coverage guy, and he won't work in a lot of defenses. Revis was the closest thing to Sanders as a coverage guy, so I'll give you that. Talib is a beast, but he had to go to arguably the two best front offices in football to win a damn thing.

    DT was a top ten talent who fell drastically because of being a bit raw and his injury in college. At that point, Dez Bryant, who was arguably the most 'talented' player in the draft (don't get mad at me that was the consensus opinion) was taken after DT. If you get a talent like that, a true blue top five WR talent, it's almost impossible to say no to it. If there is a guy available who jumps like a power forward, runs a 4.3, has really good or great hands, can block, beat great college competition, and basically is a clone of Dez or DT...you do take him. But that guy doesn't seem to exist in any scenario that ends with him being a Bronco.

    I love these talks, BTW.
    I think Mike Williams is a DT. That started all this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

  12. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    I think Mike Williams is a DT. That started all this.
    I know you do. I'm not sure he is. He was great in the national championship game, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  13. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    I know you do. I'm not sure he is. He was great in the national championship game, though.
    Check this. Vs. Buckeyes. Real tough game. This is all Williams. You have to watch this to have an opinion.

    @0:50.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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