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Thread: Should and CAN the Broncos re-negotiate LT Okung's contract?

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOtorboat View Post
    Disregard original post.

    I don't think there's any way they can pick up the option.
    They easily could, but even I think it's a bad idea to pay Okung $12M/yr EACH of the next two seasons (I believe he'll have all his guarantees by 2019, so we could cut him then at no cost; still way too much.) Just because I rant about spending big on an OT the first lukewarm body we find.

    The reason I didn't expect him back is because his option hits in ~2½ weeks, which left little time to hash out a new deal before then and there's NOW way we exercise that option for what he delivered last year. Unless they've been quietly discussing it since the season ended (or earlier) it's not happening.

    For all the talk about "well, he's the best we can get, so 'worth' 2 years at $12M each," that's just not how Elway operates (and in this case, thank GOD it's not.)
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

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    i can't see them picking up the option-- he's not worth it, regardless of what the other options are. . . JFE doesn't get backed into a corner very often. . . we have plenty of extra ammo if we need to swing a trade for a joe thomas or someone like that. . . we're not paying okung like a top tier player, he's garbage. . .

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  4. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    They easily could, but even I think it's a bad idea to pay Okung $12M/yr EACH of the next two seasons (I believe he'll have all his guarantees by 2019, so we could cut him then at no cost; still way too much.) Just because I rant about spending big on an OT the first lukewarm body we find.

    The reason I didn't expect him back is because his option hits in ~2½ weeks, which left little time to hash out a new deal before then and there's NOW way we exercise that option for what he delivered last year. Unless they've been quietly discussing it since the season ended (or earlier) it's not happening.

    For all the talk about "well, he's the best we can get, so 'worth' 2 years at $12M each," that's just not how Elway operates (and in this case, thank GOD it's not.)
    That's exactly how Elway and every other NFL executive operates. DO you imagine he has some magic pixie dust he can sprinkle over the FA T market and turn a bunch of over the hill, 30-something Ts whose teams have concluded they are no longer worth the money they are making into 25 year old Pro-Bowl Ts?

    There are no worthy tackles in the draft. Virtually every mock draft has the Broncos taking either Denver Broncos taking Tennessee T Ryan Ramczyk, Alabama T Cam Robinson, or Utah T Garrett Bolles, but none of them are worth the 20th pick. In fact, according to every NFL draft expert I've heard none of them projects as better than average. And you don't use a top 20 pick on a guy who has serious flaws in their game and can only be described as "developmental OL". We already have several guys of that description, including Connor McGovern and Ty Sambrailo.

    As for FA OTs they are few and far between, and about 1/2 the teams in the NFL are set to actively pursue them like Black Friday shoppers fighting over scraps in the bargain basement.

    Typical is Bengals T Andrew Wittworth. Why, if he's any good did the Bengals let him hit FA? Answer: he's 35 years old and can barely get out of his stance (according to Tyler Polumbus). He somehow manages to get the job done but for how long? Signing him would be a really short-term desperation move.

    Possibly the best T would be Jaguars T Kelvin Beachum, but he's under contract for the next 3 seasons. He's only 28, so he has some potential good years left, but you'd have to trade for him and he won't come cheap. The Jags aren't stupid, and they know desperate teams will offer them some mid level draft picks. Possibly Elway could work a deal at the combine, but unless that happens he ain't coming here. I'd give this possibility less than 15% chance.

    Then there's the speculation (and it's no more than that) that Elway would trade for Joe Thomas. Well, 2 years ago Elway baulked at giving up a first round pick, plus Shaquil Barrett. Nothing much has changed since except that the Browns fired the management that considered that deal, Thomas has said publicly that he wants to remain in Cleveland (which is rare of course), and he's gotten 2 years older. IN short, nothing has changed there. The Browns won't give up Thomas except for an absurd amount of draft stock, and the Broncos aren't going to give up multiple picks including a first rounder for a 33 year old OT who may have 3 good years left. No way in hell. In fact, there's no indication at all that the Browns are willing to trade him since he's the best player on their team.

    Branden Albert was a possibility since OC Mike McCoy has worked with him, but he got traded not released, so that's out.

    The Broncos better sign Okung because outside of a trade there are no good options at all. If Okung doesn't want to re-negotiate his contract he won't. He can force the Broncos to release him if they don't pick up his contract and then some desperate team will pay him.

    When are you going to get it? Value in the NFL is based NOT on talent, or some intrinsic amount of "talent" but solely on scarcity. Can the team replace you with someone better and cheaper? If so, then you won't last. If not, then they will have to keep and pay you, regardless of your talent level.

    And fans saying "he's not worth it" are just missing the point.

  5. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    i can't see them picking up the option-- he's not worth it, regardless of what the other options are. . . JFE doesn't get backed into a corner very often. . . we have plenty of extra ammo if we need to swing a trade for a joe thomas or someone like that. . . we're not paying okung like a top tier player, he's garbage. . .
    There's NOBODY "like that". There are no other Joe Thomases out there just waiting for the Broncos to sign them. By all indications the Browns are not looking to trade Joe Thomas so it would take a ridiculous offer for them to even consider it, and even then they probably wouldn't trade him, since he's by far their best player and is still playing at a high level and is the team leader in their locker room.

    Get it through your head. It doesn't matter whether you think he's "garbage" or not. There' nobody better available in FA or in the draft. NOBODY! And Elway can't conjure a Pro-Bowl LT out of the air!

    Ryan Clady has been injured and missed games in every season for years - and it's always his left leg too that gets injured. He's no longer remotely the player he was and is uncertain to even last the season wherever he winds up. So, why would teams pay him millions of dollars to come there, when he's just going to sit in the training room and collect a pay-check? Why is his name even out there?

    Answer: Because teams are desperate and some team will hope against hope that he can stay healthy enough to play for them. And for lack of a better alternative they will pay him some absurd amount (anything more than $2M would be absurd). Would Elway be dumb enough to bank on Ryan Clady? Almost certainly not.

    So, unless Elway can get a deal for Kelvin Beachum they are going to have no choice but to keep Okung whether fans like that or not! And your saying that "he's garbage" changes nothing!

  6. #20

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    Just to emphasize my point, since you fans are mostly too lazy to look this stuff up, here's the top FA T's out there, and it's a pretty sorry lot:

    Sebastian Vollmer, OT, Patriots. Age: 33.
    "Sebastian Vollmer has missed 38 games the past six years, including all of 2016. He's been great when healthy, but that hasn't been very often. He'll also be 33 in July, so his skills are eroding as well."

    Does that sound like a good option? No. He's pretty washed up at this point. When the Pats give up on a guy, he usually can't play any more.

    Seahawks RT Ricky Wagner - nothing special, the Seahawks OL has been pretty bad, and he's a RT, but he'd be an upgrade over Donald Stephenson anyway. That might be an option, but it doesn't help the Broncos upgrade from Russell Okung. According to Walter Football, he "should be able to obtain a substantial contract as a result." That means he's going to get a boat load of money from some desperate team. Maybe the Broncos?

    Riley Reiff, OT, Lions. Age: 28 -- He was bad at LT so the Lions drafted Taylor Decker and moved Reiff to RT where he's been very mediocre. Still a possible upgrade over Donald Stephenson.

    Ty Nsekhe (RFA), OT, Redskins. Age: 31 The fact that a restricted FA even made this list is an example of how desperate teams are. He probably stays with the Redskins and isn't an upgrade anyway.

    Matt Kalil, OT, Vikings. Age: 28.

    "Vikings T Matt Kalil has dealt with numerous injuries over the past few years, and he's regressed as a consequence. He's performed on a replacement level recently. Perhaps Kalil will get healthy, but the Vikings can't trust him anymore." Sounds great! Take on somebody else's disappointment! Pass.

    That's what you're looking at out there. Pretty thin pickings. Again, probably the best of them is Kelvin Beachum, who has the same track record as Clady: "Kelvin Beachum is a talented left tackle who would be rated a bit higher than this if he were healthy. Beachum tore his ACL in 2015 and struggled this past season because he wasn't 100 percent. However, he should provide solid value this spring. He figures to be closer to 100 percent now that he's two years removed from his knee injury. Plus, he's only 28. Beachum could be one of the better signings this offseason."

    That of course, is exactly what people said about Clady after his first knee injury. He was hurt in 2013 and missed the season on IR, came back and was pretty bad at LT in 2014, then went down with a training camp injury to his same left knee in 2015 and missed the entire SB season. He never recovered the form he had before his ACL. The Broncos cut him and the Jets decided to pay him. He went to NY for a year, now the Jets are getting rid of him because he's pretty washed up.

    Of course, Beachum might not reinjure his knee. But, it's all depressingly familiar. Knee injury slows a player who no longer has that quick outside move to prevent pass-rushers from getting around the edge. Team moves on from said player. Some other desperate team gambles on him and usually it's a bad idea.

    In this case not only would the Broncos have to pay him big $ they'd have to trade for him as well.

    So, all you people who keep insisting "get rid of the OL! They suck!" where's your new star LT in that sorry bunch? Huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    There's NOBODY "like that". There are no other Joe Thomases out there just waiting for the Broncos to sign them. By all indications the Browns are not looking to trade Joe Thomas so it would take a ridiculous offer for them to even consider it, and even then they probably wouldn't trade him, since he's by far their best player and is still playing at a high level and is the team leader in their locker room.

    Get it through your head. It doesn't matter whether you think he's "garbage" or not. There' nobody better available in FA or in the draft. NOBODY! And Elway can't conjure a Pro-Bowl LT out of the air!

    Ryan Clady has been injured and missed games in every season for years - and it's always his left leg too that gets injured. He's no longer remotely the player he was and is uncertain to even last the season wherever he winds up. So, why would teams pay him millions of dollars to come there, when he's just going to sit in the training room and collect a pay-check? Why is his name even out there?

    Answer: Because teams are desperate and some team will hope against hope that he can stay healthy enough to play for them. And for lack of a better alternative they will pay him some absurd amount (anything more than $2M would be absurd). Would Elway be dumb enough to bank on Ryan Clady? Almost certainly not.

    So, unless Elway can get a deal for Kelvin Beachum they are going to have no choice but to keep Okung whether fans like that or not! And your saying that "he's garbage" changes nothing!
    thanks for the "info". . .




    oh, and by the way. . .

    According to Jay Glazer of FOX Sports, the Broncos will not pick up the option on left tackle Russell Okung, which will turn him into the open market.

    The $1 million option would have activated the next four years at $48 million, with $20.5 million in guarantees, and that was too high a price for the Broncos to pay.
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...russell-okung/



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  9. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    thanks for the "info". . .
    I see a lot of hot air from you but no useful info. What's the plan Stan? . . . . . . . . . Crickets.

    Because I'm right!

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    But, but! Branden Albert!
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post

    Because I'm right!
    mmm-hmm. . . keep telling yourself that. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    I see a lot of hot air from you but no useful info. What's the plan Stan? . . . . . . . . . Crickets.

    Because I'm right!
    Yeah, except you were completely wrong!

    lol
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    I'm happier than tom brady in a gay bar....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    I see a lot of hot air from you but no useful info. What's the plan Stan? . . . . . . . . . Crickets.

    Because I'm right!
    Dude...your hot takes are like polar bear poop, frozen right out the ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    thanks for the "info". . .




    oh, and by the way. . .



    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...russell-okung/


    Can't believe you linked that PFT trash website!

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    Nice thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotsGuy View Post
    Can't believe you linked that PFT trash website!
    Why is PFT trash? Let me guess, because they report on all the ******* cheating the P*triots do?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Why is PFT trash? Let me guess, because they report on all the ******* cheating the P*triots do?
    probably more so because florio is a whiny ass tool. . . but it is a convenient collection of info-- give it to the guy, he made a living out of just summarizing a bunch of other people's work. . . he's a f***in' tracer! plus he and NBC sports are like the official standard-bearers for the decline of american journalism, as none of their sites are proof read, and their bloggers are all borderline literate at best. . .

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