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Thread: John Clayton's GOAT QB Ranking

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    Default John Clayton's GOAT QB Ranking

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...st-nfl-qb-ever

    6. John Elway

    Regular-season record: 148-82-1 | Regular-season MVPs: 1987
    Super Bowl titles: XXXII, XXXIII*
    Elway was perhaps the most talented of the great class of quarterbacks in the 1983 draft. He was so good that he would take above-average Denver Broncos teams to Super Bowls, even though it took him 15 years to get his first Super Bowl title. He closed his career in the best way -- back-to-back titles.

    I will still contend that Elway was the best ever for any number of reasons but i thought Clayton's list was interesting and frankly, its understandable why he put Brady at #1 like he did because of all the SB's he has managed to get to.

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    Maybe Dread will show up to debate Elway vs. Otto Graham.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...st-nfl-qb-ever




    I will still contend that Elway was the best ever for any number of reasons but i thought Clayton's list was interesting and frankly, its understandable why he put Brady at #1 like he did because of all the SB's he has managed to get to.
    Brady isn't #1, no chance. Brady goes down and his team goes 11-5 with Matt Cassel.... Brady's a damn good qb but not #1. I'd swap him and Elway on that list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davii View Post
    Brady isn't #1, no chance. Brady goes down and his team goes 11-5 with Matt Cassel.... Brady's a damn good qb but not #1. I'd swap him and Elway on that list.
    I agree about the swap but..... Bubby Brister came in for John for a few games and still kept the team winning. Like Bubby, Cassell was lucky to be part of a very good team that really should of made the playoffs that year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    I agree about the swap but..... Bubby Brister came in for John for a few games and still kept the team winning. Like Bubby, Cassell was lucky to be part of a very good team that really should of made the playoffs that year.
    A "few games" doesn't make a season

    And the first four games this year they went 3-1 with like a 12th string qb, no Gronk, etc. When Brady is out they don't suffer a whole lot. No doubt there's a drop off, but I think at this point it's fairly obvious BB is the architect of the Pat's success to include Tom Brady.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davii View Post
    A "few games" doesn't make a season

    And the first four games this year they went 3-1 with like a 12th string qb, no Gronk, etc. When Brady is out they don't suffer a whole lot. No doubt there's a drop off, but I think at this point it's fairly obvious BB is the architect of the Pat's success to include Tom Brady.
    I disagree in the sense that the QB still has to make the plays. BB is a great HC, probably the best of this generation (minus the cheating scandals) but i can guarantee that when Brady finally retires they wont have near the success as they did with Brady there. I mean, as much as people think Siemian sucks donkey balls we still went 9-7 so you can have "some" success with just about any QB so as long as there is talent around them and the coaching is competent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    I disagree in the sense that the QB still has to make the plays. BB is a great HC, probably the best of this generation (minus the cheating scandals) but i can guarantee that when Brady finally retires they wont have near the success as they did with Brady there. I mean, as much as people think Siemian sucks donkey balls we still went 9-7 so you can have "some" success with just about any QB so as long as there is talent around them and the coaching is competent.
    Exactly, and Brady always has great talent around him, excellent coaching, etc. Like I said, there's a drop off when Brady is out, but the proof is in their record without him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davii View Post
    Exactly, and Brady always has great talent around him, excellent coaching, etc. Like I said, there's a drop off when Brady is out, but the proof is in their record without him.
    But wouldnt you agree that every successful QB has great talent and coaching around them? Especially when they win championships? I mean, Montana always had great talent around him in SF, same with Young. When Young was in Tampa he sucked so i think for any QB to really succeed they need to have the rest to be as successful as they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    But wouldnt you agree that every successful QB has great talent and coaching around them? Especially when they win championships? I mean, Montana always had great talent around him in SF, same with Young. When Young was in Tampa he sucked so i think for any QB to really succeed they need to have the rest to be as successful as they are.
    I would, but not to the point Brady has. Manning goes down and where were the Colts? Dolphins if Marino was out? Elway carried teams to the dance but needed help to get over the hump.

    I'm saying Brady is a great qb, but not as good as some some of the others on that list.

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    Ranking QBs is very difficult. It's natural to look at team success and championships and make a case. I see championships as team accomplishments and rank them lower than most when talking about QB success. I tend to rank them on who I would want to be my QB if I was running a team. Brady wouldn't be #1 on my list. He's a great QB, but he's benefited more than anyone on that list other than maybe Bradshaw and Montana in playing for a great franchise and great HC.

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    Brady isn't Top 5, he's a proven cheater too.
    "Run through a mother****er face, they just ain't gonna want that."
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    The fact that Brady is about to play in Super Bowl LI -- his seventh Super Bowl appearance -- is remarkable, especially after missing the first four games of the season because of his Deflategate suspension.
    Sometimes people say more than they intend....

    I used to say it's so hard for a SB-winning QB in his careers final days to drop everything he's had so long and successfully, move across the country, start over with a completely different team and DO IT ALL AGAIN that NO ONE could ever do it—until someone DID. Without taping practices, or play signals, or deflating any balls.

    Until/unless someone ELSE does that, it's the mark to beat. Literally EVERYONE else is open to charges of "system QB" because they never did it any other way anywhere else. Not that guy: He TRANSCENDED systems.

    As for Graham vs. Elway, Graham was elite, but Reeves would've loved him because he never called his own plays. And his career rushing average would make Hillman cringe. Plus two years after he retired his team was back in the NFL Championship (though they did draft Jim Brown that year, and went 5-7 the year in between.) I still think was the best PLAYER ever, because he was an elite passer, runner and even kicker. But he did it so long ago his stats are nonexistent, so it's purely a matter of opinion with only anecdotal evidence to support it.
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davii View Post
    Brady isn't #1, no chance. Brady goes down and his team goes 11-5 with Matt Cassel.... Brady's a damn good qb but not #1. I'd swap him and Elway on that list.
    That 11-5 record is very deceiving. That was a very easy schedule and they did not beat one decent team all year. The toughest team they played was the Steelers who crushed them. They also lost badly to the 8-8 Chargers. If Brady was healthy they would likely have gone 14-2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davii View Post
    Exactly, and Brady always has great talent around him, excellent coaching, etc. Like I said, there's a drop off when Brady is out, but the proof is in their record without him.
    They don't always have great talent around them. Patriots fans remember the years when our best receiver was Ricochet Caldwell or when Brady was throwing to tight ends like Matthew Mulligan. Yesterday I compared New England's current roster to the one that won Super 49 and our receivers that year were far from elite. Our best was Edelman and then it dropped to Amendola, Brandon LaFell, Josh Boyce, Matthew Slater and Brian Tyms. Not great.

    Brady just makes them look great.

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    Still like Whitlocks old write up on why Elway is the best. Of course, that was years ago.

    But if Brady played in Elways time, or the era of Unitas or Graham or Starr, etc........he would have been broken in half.

    Brady plays in a time taylored to QBs, and roughing the passer comes with blowing a kiss.

    Systems and coaching play a big role in QB championships and success as well.

    Brady is unreal to be sure, but he plays in the sissy era of QBs. (sorry if you're a sissy and take offense)


    Elway would dominate and thrive in any era.

    I reserve the right to be wrong........yet right.

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    I hate the Patriots like any good Broncos' fan should.

    But, to discount what Brady has accomplished is stupid. I'm not saying he should be #1 - Elway holds that spot for me - but he's a damn good QB and to say otherwise means you really don't understand football or the position he plays.

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