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Thread: The Future Is Elway

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    Cugel has some decent points more often than not, I'll give him that.
    Cugel does. D-Mac does not.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    Cugel does. D-Mac does not.
    D-Mac is effective at his job. But I'd never quote him. I might quote Al, when he's being utterly genuine and not acting like a radio host.
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    Teams need an elite QB to win Championships. OF COURSE Elway knows this. Didn't he bring in PFM?

    I hate the off-season.
    "I may not be a mathematician, but I can count to a million." - Shannon Sharpe

  5. #19

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    All right, here's another expert who explains things in a simple way: Mark "Stink" Schlereth:

    Mike Evans: Should the Broncos go all in on a trade for Romo or Rivers?

    Schlereth: "We keep talking about those potential trades, including Rivers and Romo. And I understand it. If it's truly about winning a Championship, well you look at the AFC playoff picture and the QBs who have won world championships or gone to the SB, and the only QB since 2003 to go to a SB from the AFC who is not named Brady, Manning or Roethlisberger is Joe Flacco. So, when you start looking at that, you ask "can you get to the playoffs with a Paxton Lynch or Trevor Siemian? Yeah, you probably can. You were 9-7 this year and you can probably improve on other parts. Your offense needs to improve, you need to run the ball a little bit better. Can you get to the playoffs? Sure.

    But, do you feel confident when you get to the divisional round and you're playing against a Brady, or Roethlisberger, or you're facing an elite level QB, that a Trevor Siemian or a Paxton Lynch is going to take you to the promised land. And the truth of the matter is, the answer is: "No!"

    You can sit there and spin it however you want and say "but we have a great defense", "we've got this that or the other." But the bottom line is this: you don't really believe that either of those guys can take you beyond the divisional round.

    Nobody does. I mean, you can lie about it.
    And you can create false hope and there's always that "outlier", that one game where you just go "lights out" and have that out-of-body experience like Frank the Tank you know when he's debating. [? Frank the Tank? ] You just go completely out-of-body. And that can happen. But, you can't rely on that. You can't go "OK we're going to have 3 out-of-body experiences throughout the playoffs to get us to the Super Bowl." C'mon, stop it! That's just not gonna to happen.

    So, I understand the trade talk. And it's viable. I would definitely kick all the tires I could if I were in the Broncos shoes right now. But, it leads me to this, "what are you willing to give up?"
    It's not likely that the Chargers will trade Rivers at all. It's institutionally much easier for them to pretend to their fans (what few are left after they gave San Diego the big middle finger) that they are a couple of players away from competing for the AFC Championship. "It can happen." And as long as they have an elite QB like Rivers, they're right. It could happen.

    But realistically, it's not going to happen. If they were in the AFC South, maybe. But, they are locked into a division with the Chiefs, Chargers and defending SB Champion Broncos. Maybe if the Broncos or Chiefs have a bad year next year, they might creep up 1 in the standings. But, are they really going to beat all those really good teams? No.

    They have a couple of "nice pieces" here and there - good players. But, you can't launch a ship with a few "good pieces" of hull and a lot of rotten, weak spots. The ocean will pour in through the weak places and the ship will sink. And so will the Chargers, let's be honest about that.

    So, they should trade Rivers, dump his salary and rebuild, the way the Seahawks and Broncos did in winning the SB recently.

    The Seahawks succeeded in making themselves a long term threat to win the SB, mostly because they got rid of their veteran QBs and were paying Russell Wilson less than $1 M a year. That enabled them to re-sign the entire Legion of Boom. Elway saw that and decided he would copy their model for success.

    So, they dumped Julius Thomas and his high salary, got rid of Wes Welker and refused to pay Brock Osweiler $18M a year, $37 M guaranteed, even though that meant trying to defend their SB Championship with rookie QBs.

    After watching Brock's miserable performance against the Pats, (not to mention that he got benched this year) that turned out to be the right move! But, it does leave Denver with a world class defense and no offense, and particularly worrisome - no elite QB.
    Last edited by Cugel; 01-19-2017 at 01:43 PM.

  6. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazam! View Post
    Teams need an elite QB to win Championships. OF COURSE Elway knows this. Didn't he bring in PFM?

    I hate the off-season.
    I love the off-season because it's full of possibilities!

    Of course Elway knows it because he brought in Peyton. But, here's the $1M question nobody really knows the answer to: Can Paxton Lynch really develop into an elite, top 10 QB in the NFL, like perhaps a Dak Prescott or a Russell Wilson, or yes, a Joe Flacco, (whose playoff record is amazing, but who sometimes sucks during the regular season)?

    And here's the real nut-cutter: "Assuming Lynch does develop into an elite QB, how long will that take? A year? Two years? Three?"

    Because right now they are paying Lynch and Siemian less than $3 M a year combined. Peanuts in the NFL for starting QBs. But, the defense isn't going to last forever.

    They lost Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan last year. This year they are losing Wade Phillips, Sylvester Williams and probably DeMarcus Ware. And there isn't any Hall of Fame pass-rushing OLB just waiting to come to Denver to fill Demarcus' shoes.

    So, if you want to win another Championship before the window slams shut on Denver's SB defense, they can't wait 2 or 3 years for Lynch to develop. They need an elite veteran QB right NOW!

    It might not be realistic. It might not happen. But, you can bet Elway will try and do it.

  7. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    D-Mac is effective at his job. But I'd never quote him. I might quote Al, when he's being utterly genuine and not acting like a radio host.
    I don't like DMac at all. I think he's a jerk. And he says some really dumb things he probably doesn't even really believe just to stir up the fans and generate ratings. That's his job.

    But, that quote wasn't one of the dumb things. He's actually quite smart, I hate to admit. And he gets a lot of inside information from talking to other experts and then re-stating their insights in simple terms.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    Wait, Canadians call the letter Z "Zed"? Is this true weazel/PAG?
    Yes, Zed, even in Quebec.

  9. #23

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    I like how when comparing our guys, some are comparing them and saying"can you expect that they turn into a Brandy, a Wilson, a Prescott"...

    Those 3 were 6th round and 4th round QBs.

    I think the answer is "who the hell knows".

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  11. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotsGuy View Post
    Yes, Zed, even in Quebec.
    Hey Pags.
    2012: The Year that Mo Got Laid

  12. #25
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    Hi Rex, how have you been?

  13. #26

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    Well, gee, if the ONLY AFC path to the SB necessarily includes Manning, Brady or Roethlisberger, we're screwed with or without Rivers/Romo. Never mind that 1) if those guys are THAT dominant they'd probably go to the SB with any team but 2) Manning's the only one to do it without elite defenses backing him. I mean, why limit it to AFC champs? Wilson played two straight SBs, winning the first 43-8, and he was a 3rd round 2nd rate QB dual threat who's "too short" to be an NFL starter.

    If Joe freakin' Flacco and Ben Rapistburger can win SBs, so can Paxton Lynch and/or Trevor Siemian. First and foremost, reducing football to nothing but QBs is juvenile. Yet even if we accept that championship formula, bringing in some other teams aging former All Pro is very much NOT the championship formula: In 51 seasons of SB, it's happened exactly ONCE, and Wade Phillips' D was at least as critical to that sui generis event.

    All Pro QBs aren't the end all, be all of football, but are important enough that teams who find one don't casually toss him aside until/unless he's running out of gas. There's a reason that even guys like Unitas and Montana never won another SB with their new teams: Because their original teams never would've let them go if they could still win SBs. The '9ers didn't just ride the hot hand with Young; Montanas growing number of injuries were what showcased Young in the first place.
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

    Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
    Love can't be coerced. —Me

  14. #27

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    This whole argument is a 3rd grade Madden mentality: It presumes a great QB is the ONLY thing that matters and FURTHER presumes the ONLY way to get one is to wait for one to prove himself great with another team that then dumps him EVEN THOUGH HE'S THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS.

    Even if a championship requires an elite QB (Joe Flacco and Trent Dilfer certainly agree) the best way to get one is to draft and develop one who keeps you in contention for a decade or more, not trade for a broken down HoFer and try to assemble all the afterthought players before he limps off into retirement.
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

    Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
    Love can't be coerced. —Me

  15. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    This whole argument is a 3rd grade Madden mentality: It presumes a great QB is the ONLY thing that matters and FURTHER presumes the ONLY way to get one is to wait for one to prove himself great with another team that then dumps him EVEN THOUGH HE'S THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS.
    Wow, Joel with the double wammy:

    3rd grade and madden in one description.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotsGuy View Post
    Hi Rex, how have you been?
    You never ask me how I've been
    Quote Originally Posted by Day1BroncoFan View Post
    I'm happier than tom brady in a gay bar....

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    Quote Originally Posted by slim View Post
    You never ask me how I've been
    I "see" you more often, so I have a vague idea as to how you are.

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