Thread: Cutler believed to have torn labrum, miss rest of year

Originally Posted by chazoe60

Carol, you misspelled vagina.

I believe the proper medical term is Labia. And yes, you beat everyone to it.

Originally Posted by MasterShake

I believe the proper medical term is Labia. And yes, you beat everyone to it.

You beat me to Labia...That's exactly what I was thinking is I read it and thought "Shouldn't that say Labia?" His is made of glass and full of sand....

It looks like it's more day-to-day now.

He is a pretty tough guy. POS though.

Originally Posted by Northman

Young was a great QB playing for a very bad team in TB. David Carr was not a great talent and he proved that when he went to other teams and failed to impress. Testaverde was a middle of the pack QB who played on some great teams yet made costly mistakes to which it cost those teams a chance at a championship. Your logic here is that every QB that comes into the NFL is destined to be a HOF'r and thats just not realistic nor accurate. I know you think you are a smart guy and all but your logic here is simply flawed by a larger margin. Yes, good Olines help already great players (Elway, Davis, Montana, Aikman, etc) but that does not equate to every QB whoever comes into the league is destined to be great. You simply cannot say that Cutler has never had a good Oline or talent around him in his career. He has yet he has failed to step up as a leader and make the plays necessary to be a champion. You can try and spin it anyway you like but you would still be wrong in this case. Cutler is what he is, a average QB who never progressed beyond a certain level even when he had everything else around him that would help him achieve it.

Who said every QB who comes into the league is destined to be great, even with protection and run support? What I'M saying is that even the greatest talents almost invariably fail WITHOUT those things (and a coach to develop them, because even rookies from "pro-style" college offenses are usually behind the pro curve.)

I absolutely CAN say Cutler has never had a good Oline, because HE HASN'T. As you note, he's a ten-year vet: Cite just a SINGLE season where he had a good line. The best you've offered so far were a season or two of strictly average Bears lines. He had a good line in '08, when he also had his lone Pro Bowl selection; coincidence? Unfortunately, the coach who took over in '09 cut his starting LG, Pro Bowl starting C and starting RT, and the rest, as Cutler, is history.

Originally Posted by Joel

Who said every QB who comes into the league is destined to be great, even with protection and run support? What I'M saying is that even the greatest talents almost invariably fail WITHOUT those things (and a coach to develop them, because even rookies from "pro-style" college offenses are usually behind the pro curve.)

I absolutely CAN say Cutler has never had a good Oline, because HE HASN'T. As you note, he's a ten-year vet: Cite just a SINGLE season where he had a good line. The best you've offered so far were a season or two of strictly average Bears lines. He had a good line in '08, when he also had his lone Pro Bowl selection; coincidence? Unfortunately, the coach who took over in '09 cut his starting LG, Pro Bowl starting C and starting RT, and the rest, as Cutler, is history.

Having an Oline that is middle of the pack is still good enough to win ballgames Joel. I know you think you are this really smart guy but not really. Believe what you want but it doesnt make you right.

Originally Posted by Northman

Having an Oline that is middle of the pack is still good enough to win ballgames Joel. I know you think you are this really smart guy but not really. Believe what you want but it doesnt make you right.

Having an Oline that's total garbage is still good enough to win 70% of ball games in a really tough division. With an elite D and first ballot HoFer under center, it's enough to win championships—but it's also "still" suboptimal and no way to develop a YOUNG QB. Irrespective of how smart either of us thinks he is. Crediting people with the wit to see the obvious and well known is a statement of their intellect, not mine; if I overestimated you, my apologies.

Originally Posted by Northman

Having an Oline that is middle of the pack is still good enough to win ballgames Joel. I know you think you are this really smart guy but not really. Believe what you want but it doesnt make you right.

Part of Cutler's issue (he had a lot) is that by the time he had gotten a decent line he was already beat to shit. The idiot also did break his thumb trying to tackle someone, so it's not all on his team.

Look, the truth is you can be a great Qb and be a mopey piece of whiny shit. Rodgers is aloof, Eli is a dope, those guys are out there. But Cutler is essentially just a guy with some of the greatest talent of his generation that just is meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh. I'm not saying he doesn't care, but he reminds me of the guy who wakes up early in the morning to train but spends half the time stretching, or the guy who wakes up late in the morning and tries to go ape shit later to make up for it. There's just this sort of unfocused and almost uncaring but not uncaring vibe about him. Maybe that would work if he's a technician QB like Rodgers, or a QB who humbly takes the media beatings and will show up HUGE in the clutch like Eli.

It's like he's missing a piece of personality or something.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Part of Cutler's issue (he had a lot) is that by the time he had gotten a decent line he was already beat to shit. The idiot also did break his thumb trying to tackle someone, so it's not all on his team.

Look, the truth is you can be a great Qb and be a mopey piece of whiny shit. Rodgers is aloof, Eli is a dope, those guys are out there. But Cutler is essentially just a guy with some of the greatest talent of his generation that just is meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh. I'm not saying he doesn't care, but he reminds me of the guy who wakes up early in the morning to train but spends half the time stretching, or the guy who wakes up late in the morning and tries to go ape shit later to make up for it. There's just this sort of unfocused and almost uncaring but not uncaring vibe about him. Maybe that would work if he's a technician QB like Rodgers, or a QB who humbly takes the media beatings and will show up HUGE in the clutch like Eli.

It's like he's missing a piece of personality or something.

If he hadn't tried to tackle the guy everyone would knock him for that.

Originally Posted by Dapper Dan

If he hadn't tried to tackle the guy everyone would knock him for that.

They were in a good spot to make the playoffs. It was a stupid idea. Really stupid.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Part of Cutler's issue (he had a lot) is that by the time he had gotten a decent line he was already beat to shit. The idiot also did break his thumb trying to tackle someone, so it's not all on his team.

Look, the truth is you can be a great Qb and be a mopey piece of whiny shit. Rodgers is aloof, Eli is a dope, those guys are out there. But Cutler is essentially just a guy with some of the greatest talent of his generation that just is meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh. I'm not saying he doesn't care, but he reminds me of the guy who wakes up early in the morning to train but spends half the time stretching, or the guy who wakes up late in the morning and tries to go ape shit later to make up for it. There's just this sort of unfocused and almost uncaring but not uncaring vibe about him. Maybe that would work if he's a technician QB like Rodgers, or a QB who humbly takes the media beatings and will show up HUGE in the clutch like Eli.

It's like he's missing a piece of personality or something.

Which reminds me of another guy named Plummer. Dont get me wrong, Jake was a great guy and at times fun to watch but there was a part of Jake that simply only wanted to do the bare minimum to succeed as a QB. He self admittedly only liked playing football for the sport itself but only wanted to come in to work and play. He didnt want to do any of the other things needed to progress his game or go the extra mile. Which is fine, in Jake's world that is all that mattered and he had some success as a NFL QB, much like Cutler. But as you pointed out Jay is missing things from his game that stall his progression as a QB, things that he fails to address from a personal standpoint that could make him a better player overall. But it is what it is with him, he has plateaued to a certain level as far as im concerned. There are good QB's and then there are great QBs and those are the ones who go above and beyond when the rest of the team stalls at a certain point. And those QB's are the ones to me that can be considered great. Its not just in the stat lines, its in what one sees on the field with their mechanics and decision making.

Its how they adjust to adversity and whether they can motivate the guys around them to pick up their game. Though Tebow had many other faults when it came to being a NFL QB one thing he never lacked was leadership and heart. Its why a guy such as himself can actually motivate a team to go 8-8 and beat a quality playoff team. If Tebow had even an ounce of the talent that Jay had he would of easily been a quality NFL QB and maybe even a great one. But not every QB that comes into the NFL is destined to be a HOF guy, it just doesnt work that way. For the first few years in Cutler's career i was an avid defender of his. Even using the Oline early in his career in Chicago to justify some of the struggles. But the last 3 years has taught me by watching him that while improvements have been made around him he has not improved his own issues since the day he was drafted. And its those issues that tend to resonate throughout the NFL in how people nad players view him and his ability to lead. Even a guy like Brandon Marshall who early in his career really liked Jay eventually saw the writing on the wall before resorting to calling Cutler out publicly. Like many QB's Jay has just ended up being another guy who had a lot of talent but was never able to progress beyond a certain point.

I agree with a lot of that. Cutler did get hosed in regards to a few things in Chicago (Martz's playcalling sucked, the line was often shitass, his first several years he had one weapon, etc). Also, people unfairly labeled him a quitter in that playoff game against the Packers.

But eventually all of those things went away. He did have some untimely injuries when the offense did turn it around. He was having a very good season before he broke his thumb with the dumb. But by and large the sum total of his work is just...."meh to pretty good."

Martz offense contributed to how bad the OL was too, constant 7-step drops with slow developing plays, it never looked the same without Orlando Pace at LT.